PBones

That is a horrible increase! I know hangars are in demand, I am on two waiting lists! Problem for most public airports, especially county owned, they dont know how to make money beyond fuel and storage. They do not want to invest in more hangars, so the ones they have become the "limited supply" for the "big demand". Unfortunately as I have been told over and over: Flying = Big Bucks Sad but True

I was thinking the same thing, an idling engine is better than no engine for sure. It is probably a good idea to google map any airport you are taking off from to see where a good emergency landing area might be from the upwind take off runway.

Agreed about the insurance companies dictating the training needed for them to cover a high performance airplane, since I just purchased a K, they set the exact hours and type of training I will need to be covered by the policy since I have only trained in Piper and Cessna fixed gear low HP planes.

I totally agree with MikeOH on this one. I own odd AMC 60s cars, and they sell steering and brake parts for them at reasonable prices. The liability is the same or higher than an airplane since the part can fail and harm people and property. It even might be better if they stopped making the clamp completely. Then since the part is unavailable, we can either fabricate our own or use a superior clamp that is out on the market. Who are they going to sue if there is an incident? The auto part maker did not see me the part as an "aircraft" part. I cant sue myself, people on the ground might sue me, but I have liability insurance. The point is, the heavy automotive racing type clamps are far superior to the "traceable" clamps and American manufacturers of these part DO know the history of the metallurgy of those parts too, because they dont want to be sued by people driving fast cars with turbo chargers. By pricing the clamps so high, it just causes people not to change the clamps and keep running the ones they have as long as they can (since the AD was extended until next year for these clamps now), how is that safer for skies?

Great Pinecone! But I believe MikeOh is correct, easier to fly a whole plane! Not sure if 1/2 a prop, one aileron and 1/2 an elevator will work well, not to mention the intense draft!

In my classic auto world I use high quality washes/cleaners that will not harm the paint or clear coats, then use high quality 3000/3500 buffing compound like Menzerna. then finish with P21S carnuba, yes it is expensive about 45 bucks for 6 oz , but you should get at least 2 applications. Using a good decent orbital buffer (battery operated is better and easier) and a pack of high quality foam buffing pads the finish will be amazing, worth the investment. After you do the initial compound, you only have to apply the P21S which goes on and off very easy once a year. Just practice on one of your cars first till you get the hang of using the machine, these machines will not burn through unless you go really nuts on one spot with heavy compound. It is not much different using other exotic finish waxes or coatings you might like, there are a lot of them, the buffer and pads are the secret to removing swirls and clear coat scratches. When done, if you do it in steps, the paint will look so wet and be protected. Not sure why a airplane paint is any different than quality auto paint. There are plenty of videos showing how to do it, I would never pay anyone to buff or seal my paint, nothing like doing it the right way yourself. One last thing, I use flannel cloth that can be bought by the yard on the internet, to cover all of my cars, easy to clean the covers and they keep the finish perfect. Cheap investment and easy to throw over the plane. https://www.thefabricoutletonline.com/

You are correct, that is why I like a lot of fuel! That should be the last thing to worry about. Not to worry, my wife can only go about 2.5 hours before she will force the plane down to the potty! So I will just fuel up while she powders her nose!

It is a 1979 231 that does not have the automatic waste gate, my instructors 231 plane has the Merlyn waste gate. I am contemplating that upgrade, but have to spend this years budget on modern Avionics/Engine monitor, new covers since I cannot get a hangar and a major annual. Fortunately most everything under the cowl is rebuilt or new, inside is in great shape and I am just finishing up the alt/transponder certification (needed to install an aftermarket encoder). The overall pre buy was excellent but found I need a rebuilt front strut that was dented from towing, new pucks since they were older, some under dash vac hoses and probably a master cylinder/caliper rebuild which I want with modern fluids. Auto pilot was acting up a bit, could have been from sitting, hopefully just a minor repair. It had a lot of upgrades and maintenance done to it, very well kept by the prior owner with intense documentation and pride. It flew great for the ferry ride, I cant be happier joining this community!

I completely understand the calculations and planning and see that you are highly qualified, Thanks. I am new to this and have been studying intensely and the reason I am reading as many posts as I can. I still don't understand purposely running out a tank while the engine is running. For me, and this is just me, I will never "plan" to be that low on fuel at any point when flying because calculating fuel use is one thing, what can actually happen is another. I would rather make a stop than to risk my engine stalling and not restarting for some reason or doing damage to the engine by running out of fuel in one tank. I have taken online classes that discuss fuel management where they calculate their fuel based on a percentage being a state of empty ie: 25 gallon tank is empty after use of 20 gallons. I flew with a friend and during the preflight I stuck the tanks and found each had between 8 to 10 gallons. We were only going to stay in the pattern and he was OK with these levels, but I said, no and paid to put 10 gallons in each tank. No harm in having more. As everyone here keeps telling me "airplanes are expensive". I think fuel is the cheapest part of that! Too many stories of pilots running out of fuel cutting it too close. One small plane crashed near my home because the pilot kept stretching his fuel even though he passed multiple airports he planned on landing at. Unfortunately, he missed the final runway by 3 miles.

Good idea PC that number 3!!! I have already formulated a plan: GUMPS, Passenger briefing to shout GEAR DOWN when mentioning we are landing!!, BIG placard on dash that says: "RUNWAY AHEAD, NEED WHEELS"!! Dash plaque that says; "Wheels down cheaper than New Mooney!" or "No belly flopping!" In all seriousness, yes the instructors plane is also an M20K turbo, but we will be flying in my M20K after it gets its annual and I get my PPL in the Piper. He is 100% aircraft business and trains folks in all types of high performance craft. I will not fly the machine alone unless he says I am proficient. Thanks PC

201er, I am trying to figure this out you said "To avoid running it dry inadvertently during a more critical phase of flight". How does purposely running it dry anytime, in flight or otherwise, avoid doing it in flight? And what does it prove except the accuracy of the gauges, which can be done by draining the fuel on the ground or using a stick. Sorry I am just trying to learn why anyone would run their fuel tanks down to engine starvation, to prove what?

You asked: None I have ever raced have broken since they are extremely heavy duty (they should let us put them on these turbos) When we want to put a different or larger turbo or intake system It will keep running but they never break since they are 5 times stronger than that cheap Rajay spot welded sheet metal clamps designed for cost effectiveness in the 1970s and very little improvements to the 1500 dollar replacements. So overcharging for parts and drugs is acceptable? Your example of 360 vs 60 is only 6 times the cost, the clamp is 90 times the cost of a generic stainless one. Thanks for welcoming me to the world of Aviation, it is pretty cool, but we should never accept the gouging and being taken advantage of. Why should we?

I am just curious to learn, why in normal circumstances would anyone want to run an airplane tank dry on purpose? In my automotive world, it is the worst thing you can do to older classic and muscle cars. AV gas stays well and is not like auto gas with deteriorating additives, alcohol and low grade processes. Going low on gas to that point will drag every particle into the fuel system. I would drain the tank on the ground if I wanted to remove fuel or debris, not run it dry. An engine running at 2000 plus rpms will not like gasping for fuel, cylinder imbalance and losing the lubricating effects to the cylinder walls (extreme lean condition) this is probably the last thing I would ever want to happen to one of my automotive high performance engines running at 5500 rpms. It will probably survive, but longevity will decrease.

Only 13 more to go Pinecone! Impressive Thanks for the link!

Again, Thanks to all for the constructive input! I am looking forward to being part of the Mooney Community! I do understand that I will need thorough training in the Mooney by a certified Mooney CFI, which I have (he flies his own regularly for business in the aircraft world and it is the same model as mine). I am a mechanic and controls electrician my whole life and understand precision and proficiency. I will not drive or fly anything that I do not have a full understanding of operation and control (Unfortunately for us, many people drive high performance cars and toys they have no business being in and after causing a major accident that is when they find out the limitation of the vehicle). The plane will be updated to a modern engine monitor/computer as well as the latest ADS-B and GPS units. I will continue to train and even after that take periodical trips with the CFI to reinforce the fine details of precision flying. This is very important to me to always strive to be the best at what I do, there will always be better people, but there is no reason not to continue to learn and grow. Definitely going to have the plane 100% for IFR and get the rating in my plane. I definitely will not fly on purpose in bad weather, but I want to be ready and comfortable if I encounter it. It will be cool to read all of the experiences of Mooney pilots in this forum as well as in other formats. Better to learn from others than to learn the hard way!

What gall they have to charge 16 large for a clamp that my friends and I use on auto turbos that cost 60 bucks for very good ones and 100 bucks for extremely good ones! On high performance exhaust systems we use high quality interlocking V bands that cost 35 bucks in stainless steel that look way better and function the same. Sorry you had to go through that

I am training in NJ but will be relocating to VA when I am 100% retired I did not know what a Mooney was until about 6 months ago when I saw them at the airport I train at. My instructor filled me in on them as well as other Pilots at the airport. I did not have the time to train since I ran my own business for 32 years and have a disabled son (Autism) who needed care. My son transitioned to a group home last year and is doing well there, so that freed up time for my wife and myself to explore our interests. Took a intro flight in a 172 with my wife and we loved it. I am a car guy/mechanic and restored a bunch of AMC cars, so Airplanes looked like a nice upgrade to spruce up and run!

I know I have to do some hours in the Mooney under IFR and also with my regular training. I have to see what it takes to do the full blown certification and check ride. You are probably right, if I want to fly high, I should have the sheepskin.

Thank you all for the kind words and advice, much appreciated. Am happy to join the M club! I strive to learn from all angles and to advance to 110% proficient in everything I do , then hopefully I become 99%!!! I will be taking 40 hours of training, after my PPL, with a Mooney certified CFI at the airport that I keep the plane. This is required by the insurance company, as you all know, but I will most likely keep flying with the CFI, since he is a neighbor and his work in aviation takes him all over the place. I will be more than happy to taxi him around to build Mooney hours and keep the training going.

I am a new member here, hello to all and thanks for all of the great information on these planes. I am working on my PPL and just had my first chance to fly a Mooney M20K, WOW I have been training in a Warrior for about 40 hours and had the opportunity to purchase a low frame and motor M20k, it fly's but it needs a complete thorough annual (its on my mechanics schedule). A friend and Mooney CFI has the same plane and he let me take a lesson in his bird, Whoa what a difference as all of you already know. The plane does exactly what you ask and the performance is sharp. We did a steep 360 turn at around 60 degrees, holy cow is that what Gs feel like! I am totally psyched to begin training in my Mooney to gain the hours I need for high performance. I will tune in here regularly to enhance my ownership of the Mooney. THANKS ALL!

I just went through it. I am a student with about 39hrs, bought an M20K because the deal was great. First they said 9000.00 bucks to get insurance, then my buddy put his name on the pilot list too since he will be flying the plane. He has over 10k hours, that reduced the insurance to 5900.00. I have to get about 35-40hrs of specific training in the Mooney beyond my PPL hours as a stipulation. Here is agent email for information: michael.hillard@bwifly.com

The plane is nowhere close to the taxiway! How fast was he going that he split the plane in two and ended up by a fence? I am not buying the shoelace story at all since that should not have stopped him from using the brakes or hand brake. Come on!!

StormFlyer, Can you send me the pics of that Mooney in DE that you did not buy? What was the turn off for you with that plane? I have an opportunity to buy that plane but do not want to travel there if it is a basket case of some sort. A mechanic told me it had a 1.5hr rebuilt engine done 6 years ago then sealed up. Anything you can add would help. Thanks Perry