bmcconnaha

my plane had one before i bought it. i had it deleted with the prebuy. no point to me in running unfiltered air for the miniscule bump in MP.

very sad, but a great reminder thread. i know i may take some grief on this, but after taking the cirrus transistion into my sr22 that i owned before my J, there was a strong reccommendation on limiting yourself to fields longer than 2500. I abide by that, even in my J. if the conditions were perfect, and i was lightly loaded, i would maybe shorten that, assuming no obstructions at the end. the sr22 would come off the runway, and you could climb pretty fast, also no gear to retract. i factor the gear drag and the drag during retraction in to those minumums. i have been surprised on a 3500 foot runway, with tall trees at the end. i was full of fuel, and solo. IO390 under the cowl of my J. 1000 foot shorter would have really been cutting it close. personal minimums are a good thing. Aviation consumers quote in thier review on the J model mooney always sticks in my head. "We noted what we consider to be a relatively high percentage of accidents due to either stall or other type of inflight loss of control—24. Most of the stall accidents were shortly after takeoff or go-around in high or hot conditions with the airplane fairly heavy. Uphill runways and/or intersection takeoffs on warm days are not friends to Mooney pilots." https://www.aviationconsumer.com/aircraftreviews/mooney-201-m20j/

yeah, as i recommended above, the lyc mag was failed experiment for me after trying two, and then lycoming admitting there is an issue, no way i could recommend someone knowing going into that mess. so far (one long flight) the surefly ran flawlessly. (surefly and power conditioner, 28V)

The last EIS (second one i tried) had random misfires on cyl 3, not related to the voltage. lycoming has something messed up with thier software, and was not sure of what to do to fix the issue. my gut feeling after all this mess, and over 5k in troubleshooting (so far my expense) is to just do the surefly on the one side and call it a day. also keeps your options open down the road for timing advance if you decide to do that

will do!

let me know if youre game for a passenger one day!

might explore that option down the road when the factory warranty is up on my 390. id be very open to throwing you my 'pro rata" share of gas money for a flight one day so i can see how the timing advance works for you....

update! third time is charm, just not a third time with the Lycoming EIS. surefly on, PC17v surefly power conditioner on, ferry permit obtained, 400mi flight around the weather to get it to the Mooney service station in troutdale,OR and success.... she ran like a fine swiss watch.

I saw that on another thread. That’s too bad. Doesn’t seem to promote a culture of safety. You’d think they would think the specific training would reduce their risk, and find a way out of charging the 250 dollars extra. Thanks for the info on the clinic

ill take one for 1000 as well. heck, im in for 2k

hello all, thinking of going to the MAPA clinic in Kansas. are these worthwhile? id have to travel a considerable distance, plus the cost of the clinic, so i was looking to hear others experience of these? anyone else going?

Well, after reading this thread, maybe I missed it somehow, but did the OPs plane ever fly again?

Thought about that, but surefly wouldn’t give me the conditioner without their mag being on the plane. My IA also said we wouldn’t sign that off on the EIS, and lycoming told me not to on their EIS as well. So, surefly it is. At my own expense I might add.

I was thinking that, just didn’t want to say it, LOL.

After lycoming called me today and told me they can’t fix my problem yet, and no eta on getting it fixed I decided to buy a surefly on my own dime to get the power conditioner. If this isn’t perfect, off it comes, I’ll send it back, I’ll put a slick mag I already own on (it would be on there if I wasn’t pressed for time already, I would need to add a slick start since I have no impulse coupling). At 500 hours I’ll take them off and buy a couple bendix mags.

I am so deep into this project at the moment, the thought of spending another dime makes me want to vomit, lol. Also, I have an IO390 in my J, I doubt electroair has an STC for that engine/airframe combo.

my point exactly. certified products shouldnt leave the end user finishing their R&D. been on the phone three times with lycoming engineering today, and mine isnt the only one they are having trouble with. they dont know how to fix it or what the issue is, and frankly i am tired of trying their suggestions in a hangar that is 102 degrees inside. I do also belive since they shipped it with the wrong revision software on the EIS in the first place, it was wrong of them to make me pay 1595 to get the new EIS shipped. im still waiting for that refund. maybe the pacific northwest heat wave is making me extra grumpy LOL.

im willing to try the surefly. most of the issues seem resolvable. lycomings revision is an absolute disaster.

because the surefly is installed with an stc and 337. the lycoming is done with a minor mod. lycoming said no to the power conditioner and chose to handle the voltage sensitivity issue with a software fix. guess what, thier software didnt work. thats the problem. they (lycoming) called me this morning and they do not have a fix. it sounds like them reimbursing me for a surefly is what i am going to pursue.

if you are planning to leave the timing fixed, it isnt worth the hassle. trust me

Lycoming EIS is a replacement for a bendix or slick mag, so they are approved for most models of lycoming engines. Hard to believe we’re struggling with bringing 100 year old technology to automotive technology of the 80s.

That was the source of the initial problem the warranty replacement EIS was to fix. This is a completely separate issue. Lycoming says it’s software related, nothing wrong with the mag, but they are working on a fix, LOL. Just tried a latch ditch effort suggested by lycoming. Turn the alternator off and run it up. No change. One latch ditch effort from swapping plugs again (surely recommended to try one last time), no change. Guess I’ll report back to lycoming tomorrow that neither idea worked and see where I stand.

been on the phone with them quite a bit actually. they said it sounds like i have done all i can.

wanted to share both my experience with lycoming my Lycoming EIS. At this point i can not recommend anyone purchase the EIS from lycoming. Normally i would only share positivity, but i do not want anyone to go down this road with a lycoming EIS (especially on a 24v plane) A little backstory. Nov of last year i ordered a 390 Mooney for my 1990J. the engine was delivered in March of this year. I had the option of the EIS and i decided it was something i wanted. Install the EIS with the engine, and fire it up for the first flight. I had to abort the takeoff roll becasue the engine fell flat on its face after we smoothly applied full power. went back, ran it up again, and it ran better, so we took off. All is fine with the exception a new noise in the headset, after a few hours it became bad enough i really wanted to get to the bottom. i dediced to pull the interior and run shielded wire instead of the wire the installation letter called for. That took care of most of the noise. we thought all was well, but about every five or so hours of flight, the engine would stumble badly. the first time it did this i went through the fuel system (beliveing it to be fuel related, as did savvy) , and found nothing abnormal. the second time i was in the EXACT same location where it ran poorly the first time. I decided to relook at the data from the JPI and i noticed a very small voltage spike. I called SUREFLY (the manufaturer, and they said the 24v is a known issue. that is why they have the power conditioner. i cant use their power conditioner becasue i dont have a surefly, or the surefly STC, i have a lycoming branded surefly. i then called lycoming and learned the EIS they sent me was a very old software revision, they are aware of the 24v issues, and have a new software. (why they didnt send that when they sent the engine, i do not know). I pay the 1595 for the new EIS that they will reimburese under warranty. new EIS shows up, we install it. i go to run it up, and it runs fine, except when i click to the EIS. Cylinder 3 misfires severly. Smooth as silk on the slick mag in the right spot. We swap plugs with Cyl 3, no change in cylinder 3. In Chasing the ignition noise, i ended up buying a brand new ignition harness from Maggie ignition, had it sitting on my bench, we install it to see if maybe i have a bad lead. no change. one more plug swap, another runup and cyl three still runs poorly on the EIS. i called lycoming this morning. They will ship another one, but need another 1600. (airpower stepped up here, (shout out to Natalie in the warranty dept there) and offered to cover the cost so i am not out another 1600 plus labor waiting for lycoming to reimburse. several hours later, lycoming tech support calls back. the good news, the mag is fine. they wont ship another. the bad news is the engine will most likely only run smooth only with the alternator off. they are aware of the issue, and are working on another plane with the same cylinder misfire in 3. Annual expires tomorrow, plane is due in troutdale OR, for an annual tomorrow also. here i sit, AOG waiting for lycoming to call back with yet another change in the wiring. At this point i am no longer interested in being what it feels like lycoming made me, a test mule. lycoming will not tell me what changes are made to the software after they aquire the EIS from surefly, but there are quite a few they claim. Sounds like my best option is to buy a surefly on my dollar, install it and see if that fixes it. id go back to a mag, but i will also need a slick start in place of the EIS to handle starting duties. So, maybe surefly is the best option at this point? hopefully this serves someone well that is on the fence of a lycoming EIS in place of a mag on an engine coming from lycoming. looking like ill need a ferry permit in addition to a new mag to get it to annual in troutdale.

Maybe I missed it, but was the cylinder that had the lead/oil on the plug connected to the surefly? With the mag cap in that state, I would clean the plug and swap it to the top. Fly it for a few hours and see how it looks. If the bottom continues to show oil, I would borescope and do a compression test. I also wouldn't be against doing the "poor man's compression test" and carefully pulling the prop through to feel each compression hump. All should feel pretty close to each other. I'm surprised you didn't have some significant RF interference from the mag cap.