Toothdok50

Steve, I just had and AP/IA quote me a fee of $8,200 to install an AV-30-C in my M20C. That's about 65 hours of labor once the equipment in subtracted from the price and static system check is done. I'm scratching my head wondering what he's thinking when one guy on a Piper forum is reporting about 6 hours is required to install this unit. Do you mind sharing what your A&P charged and how many hours he billed out on your install? I'm concern about this quote...its seems really, really high. Worse yet, I was going to do this in conjunction with an annual, so the plane is already going to be torn apart...

Thanks all for the help. ARC is certainly the manufacturer based on the provided manual download. I've done a lot of searching on the web and it was fruitless. We're really fortunate to have Mooneyspace a lot of great members who are willing to share their knowledge. Its one reason I gladly support the site financially. Great resource... Kudo to Racedrager1977!

I bought my M20C two years ago and this odd little autopilot sits down behind the J-bar and flap pump handle. Its labeled "Mooney". No documentation on the thing at all. The AP works--with a little drifting and gentle s-turns. Its obvious a one-axis AP and I'm thinking its a Century I retro-fit item (AK-319), but I'm finding a paucity of information on it, and just don't know. Reading the Century I Manual, the controls and feature are very similar, but very different too. The heading knob on it is a mystery. I put an e-mail into Century describing the instrument and never got any word back from them. Supposedly, the Century I had a "retro-fit" model and I can't find any information about that kit--called the AK-319. I can't find any photos of this autopilot or any documentation to verify who manufactured it. Its an all electric system, which rules out Britton, but unlike most Century I autopilots, I don't have a Century I turn coordinator. Yes, my turn/slip instrument is electric, but there's no control knob on it, and its not branded as a Century gauge. Just behind our baggage compartment, in the tail, there is an electric gyro instrument, which seems as if it s part of the autopilot system. A warning label on this electric gyro warns against avoid any shocks or blows to the instrument. I'm lost and was hoping someone in the community might provide some information on this. I'd like to I.D. the device, obtain a manual for it and provide any sort of service the unit calls for. Short of pulling the servo to look for a manufacturer, I don't know what else to do. Even the electric gyro in the tail doesn't have a branding on it. Help!

I purchase this LED upgrade kit from ShortWingPiperClub.org: https://www.shortwingpiperclub.org/swpc-store/aircraft-parts/cabin-mounted-shoulder-lights/ Someone 3D printed new sleeves and provided a suitable LED replacement bulb. So easy to install and what a difference in light output and no burnt fingers anymore. The best fifty bucks I ever spent on my plane. Work flawlessly and draw a lot less current.

Scott, I'd gladly purchase the Aerospace Logic gauge to do the Cies upgrade, but I literally have no where to put the gauge on my panel. Us Mooney owners are in a bind with the cramped quarters we have on our panels. A $12,000 JPI EDM 900 install with Cies senders is my future, but in these vintage aircraft needing accurate fuel readings, that's something a lot of folks just don't want to do. Right now, my only alternative--if I'm going to use the FL202D gauge--is to remove my ADF, and put the Aerospace Logic gauge in that location. While I never use the old ADF, its just nice to know it's there as another option for radio nav. As far as getting a solution for the Mooney and a 337 approval goes, I'm in Florida, and working with you guys on a project like this is probably unfeasible. I sure wish someone in your area with a Mooney might step up and go for it. It certainly would make your senders more desirable and more useful. This is a challenge I'd certainly like to take on. With cheap, small microprocessors, that can read PWM, and then, via a digital potentiometer, output variable resistance, I can't imagine why a simple, small converter can't be brought to fruition--but then, I'm a dentist...what do I know?

One of the great things about owning an aircraft with a history and popularity of Mooney is the community of owners (and former owners) that are willing to share their experiences and knowledge with others. Mooneyspace is great resource for disseminating and communicating that. For me, a annual donation to keep and maintain Mooneyspace is a small investment to ensure this site continues and prospers. Keep up the good work, and good luck with the fund raising.

My son and I have decided its time to put a JPI EDM 900 in our M20C with CEIS Fuel Senders. He's anxious to get it all purchased and start the install. It appears, however, that Fun 'n Sun 2021 is a go, and I'm encouraging him to wait for the show to see if there are any specials or rebates we can get on the equipment from JPI. Being relatively new to aircraft ownership, I'm reaching out to those more seasoned owners that may have made show purchases to see what JPI has offered in the way of discounts in the past. If I'm looking at typical rebate or discount of $250 or so, its pointless to wait. However, if we're looking at a grand or more, that's an incentive to wait a month. Anyone have some experience with the sort of rebates and discounts that JPI has typically offered at previous shows? I've tried to find some old pages on the web showing show discounts or rebates at previous events and haven't been finding much. Having only owned an plane now for 2 years, and COVID eliminating Fun 'n Sun last year, I need some guidance from you seasoned aircraft owners who've gone with JPI systems or have seen more than I have. Any guidance?

Thanks RLCarter...appreciate the tips on applying the seal. Lots of good info... This makes sense to keep the black calk from oozing out at the seam, like mine is now. Its quite unsightly.

ShuRugal's suggestion seems promising too. Hmmm... I may just get both of these 3M products and see what's easiest to handle and clean-up. Not sure which way to go. Here I was thinking there'd be a called out, approved sealer or preformed seal for this since its a certified aircraft... 3M Fire Barrier Moldable Putty Stix MP+, Red, 1.45 in x 6 in_ Paint_ Amazon.com_ Industrial & Scientific.html

My A&P who does a lot of Mooney work says its tar. Smells like a tar-based roofing sealant too. Whatever is on the plane, its a mess. It oozes out and when you try to wipe it off it leaves brown streaks...like tar would. You got to work at cleaning it without dissolving anymore of the oozing material. Getting that channel cleaned out seems like a necessary goal in this too. Thanks for all the input and suggestions.

Ah, I see, those groove are now full of tar. I'll get them cleaned out and just put the 3M Calk on either side of the channels. Seeing one on each of the mating surfaces had me thinking this was for a bead seal...

Thanks Mike...that looks like a good product for the job. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to embed a rubber cord seal in those grooves as well.

Yeah, that seems like a good solution, I was just worried about adhesive silicone. Prying that thing off with any sort of force can deform that thin aluminum, but something that's non-adhesive might be the way to go.

During my first annual inspection, my A&P pointed out that someone sealed our instrument access panel with tar. What a mess! I'd seen this nasty, black goo oozing out at the seams, and figured it was the appropriate sealant from back in the early sixties when the plane was built, and it was just something our certified aircraft had to continue to use for a seal on this piece of cowling. My A&P says someone probably got frustrated from having water leaks in the cabin and use this, and this wasn't the appropriate sort of seal for the access panel. On inspection of the tar covered mating surfaces of the panel, it appear there is a half-round groove formed into the skin and also the mating surface of the panel, as if a round, rubber cord fit into this groove. I'm wondering what Mooney intended for this seal, how effective it was and what other guys on C models are using to get a nice water-tight seal on this access panel. I'm thinking of cleaning all this tar off the mating surfaces, getting a round rubber cord of the appropriate cross-sectional size and then trying a silicone gasket seal in addition to it. Any thoughts? I'd like to fix this before she done with her repairs and all buttoned up, but I guess I could do this back at our hangar if worse comes to worse. If anyone has the appropriate seal done here, is the rubber for this solid or tubular? Is it simply a rubber cord, or is there a specific gasket/seal for the job--something like a flat, 1" wide piece of rubber with a raised semi-circular bead on it, to fit into the grooves. I'm thinking a two part, non-adhesive silicone gasket compound might work well too. Knowing I'll need to remove this panel again without damaging it, I want to avoid adhesive silicone. Any help or guidance is greatly appreciated. I don't want tar--but I don't want leaks!

Thanks to MilitaryAV8R for additional information on the St. Augustine crash. Was looking for anything more the hapless media didn't report.

This Veteran's Day weekend, an M20J went down in the marsh short of the runway at Northeast Florida Regional Airport (KSGJ). Two were on board, the pilot and a nineteen year old passenger. Reports of "mechanical failure" from the pilot to first responders and the media were conveyed. The mishap occurred Sunday morning, November 10th, 2019, shortly before ten o'clock A.M. There were mild to moderate injuries to the occupants. Just a heads-up for the community and spot to add any additional information that might trickle in over the next few days... Important to learn from others misfortunes. Best wishes to pilot and passenger.

Hey guys, I've been getting mixed message about CiES Fuel Senders, and after contacting them, I'm more confused than before. I'm reading both here and on the CiES website, that these fuel senders can be configured to send information to gauges that read resistance 0-280 Ohms, which is consistent with what our vintage, Mooney gauges do. CiES says that a gauge map and tank map is required to use them with such. When I contacted CiES about how I create/obtain such a map (which I assume is just a plot of the resistance and the reading or level), the woman I was communicating with tells me that I'll need to install a new fuel gauge--their FL202D. $660 plus install. However, when you read their installation manuals, it appears that this is not necessary. When I questioned them about this, she replied that they've had a lot of problems getting the senders and vintage gauges to read reliably and consistently and I really need to upgrade the gauge??? So I'm reaching out to folks that may have installed CiES fuel senders and have attempted to link them to the vintage resistive gauges Mooney originally place. Any horror stories? Any success? Any ideas? I'd considered refurbishing my existing senders, but so many guys has said, go with CiES. Now that I'm ready to bite that bullet, I'm finding out I need to get into the panel and install new fuel gauges. Like everything...its always more than you bargained for! UGH! Are the new gauges a must or a way to sell me more? And for you JPI guys, no, I don't want a glass engine monitoring system... Any insight would be appreciated...

I'm really trying to get this issue corrected. I do want fuel senders I can rely on. Perhaps I'll have to do the CiES senders---what's a thousand bucks amongst friends? I'm just a little confused about their ability to work with current gauges. They say they work with resistive gauges, but you need a "tank and gauge map." What? That put me off, as I'd like to use those gauges that are currently in the panel. Any ideas as to what that means? No A&P here...

Thanks guys... One tank is showing F all the time. One is about 3/4 F and never goes above that. We keep the bladders full, so I'm not sure if it'll go lower, since we've not done many long treks to burn a quarter tank of fuel. I'll check if there's any impingement preventing movement of the sender arm. Now I'm trying to pick up a set of used senders to have them refurbished and I'm a little puzzled about the P/N on the device. My parts catalog is showing two different part numbers--one for the R tank and one for the L tank. All the senders I'm finding online for Mooney aircraft don't match the P/N listed. Any guidance here? P/N called out in parts catalog are: Right: 5641991 and Left: 5642354 Those online are P/N 610242-003. Is there a L and R that are distinct from each other? Is one a Mooney number and the other a manufacturer's P/N? I'm lost...

My plane is having fuel gauge issues. One tank is always reading full. The other seems unreliable as it doesn't seem to change during a fuel burn. I'm thinking its time to have the fuel senders refurbished. I'd like to pick up a set for my M20C and get them serviced--if need be--so that I'm not grounded while their off and being redone. I'm a bit puzzled about part numbers. My parts catalog that came with the plane, shows a R fuel sender with part number 5641991 and a L fuel sender with part number 5642354. The only ones I can find online are part number 610242-003, and the seller say they're fuel senders for Mooney M20 series aircraft. The electrical schematic details two different fuel senders with different call out numbers that reference two distinct part numbers in the following list. I'm lost here guys and could really use some guidance as to what I'm looking for. Is there actually a L unit that is distinct from the R unit? Are they the same? Is a 610242-003 the correct part for my M20C S/N 2303? Hope the community can provide some guidance... I'm sure someone has some answers for me.

Just bought an M20C that had fuel bladders installed, and I'm finding that one of the fuel gauges (R tank) are not showing changes during a fuel burn. Are the original type of fuel senders reused with this STC, or have they've been changed out with something more modern. Of course any sort of mod is possible, but just wondering if its a common practice to reuse the original fuel sender once bladders are installed.

Thanks guys...suspected this would be a good fix (going with LED) and have already been looking at replacement options. Didn't realized these switches were able to trip due to heat. Knowing LED's pull so much less current, my first thought was going that route. Now settling the question as to whether a LED replacement is a minor alteration that needs A&P sign off or if its just a PPL action with a log-book entry is the question. Viewed countless posts on this topic and seems like its splint down the middle as to how such a change is handled. UGH!

Just purchased a '63 M20C and on the ferry flight for delivery, pilot reported that after a few minutes of operation the switches for both the navigation lights and the landing light flick off. Navigation lights were on for much longer before having the switch tripped. Is this likely an overload/short? Are there breakers built within these switches? Is it a sign of aging switches? Anyone have insight to this problem? Leads on replacement switches anyone? Any help would be great guys... Seems like an an overload situation and not an actual short, or a faulty breaker--if there is in fact one built into the switch itself. Looking for info on these vintage switches before I consult an A&P on the issue. Maybe its the excuse I need to update the lighting.

Sure looks sweet in the pixs... Nice job!