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  1. Howdy! As luck would have it, I bought a hangar and a 1962 Mooney M20C came with it. Well, I don't want (need) two airplanes and so - after some blood, sweat, and tears with the mechanic - the M20C is up for sale! The mechanic just completed and signed off the annual a couple of days ago (July 24, 2018), so it's freshly ready to get back in the air. This was never really my airplane, I've never flown it, and it had sat in the hangar for several years, so I don't know a lot about it. I will pass on everything I've learned about this airplane for potential buyers. Asking $28,500. General Info: Located at KBTF (just North of Salt Lake City) TTAF: 3720, SMOH: 942, PROP: 942 Only flown 130 hours from 2002 - 2011 Owner lost medical and hasn't been flown since Complete airframe, engine, and prop logs, and all scanned (see below) Last previous annual was July 2011 Mechanic says the battery and gear pucks appear new and in great condition Gear up in 1986 My other mechanic did a thorough logbook analysis (report below) Several mods Wing roots Cowl enclosure J windscreen Powerflow exhaust 6-pack panel (no STC found for this) Basic avionics Steam gauges (all appear to work) Single MX11 COMM TKM radio Garmin GTX 320A transponder Unknown if either VOR works 4-place audio with Sigtronics intercom Interior and exterior both a 5 or 6 out of 10 Not the prettiest or shiniest airplane Needs a little TLC Starts right up, gauges read normal, and full power high-speed taxi down the runway seems great Manual gear, hydraulic flaps Pilot and co-pilot push-to-talk buttons attached to yoke with Velcro straps No key to the baggage door Slight fuel dye seepage under right wing (no drips on ground) Brakes work great, tires hold air Independent Mechanic Logbook Analysis: All Logbooks: Aerospace and Registration Reports: Photos and Startup Video: Getting it off of my hands quickly is my goal. It's currently registered in my name and there's no lien on it. Gimme money and fly it away! Feel free to ask any questions you'd like. I can go take pictures of anything or whatever as well. Jeff
  2. Oh, that’s great to know. Seeing that this is a ‘78, I’d wager I’ll have the same restrictions. But isn’t the VOR indicator quite large, too? I guess they’re more narrow and long behind the panel, rather than stubby and wide.
  3. The pic that Mlm20c posted is pretty much exactly what I was planning (minus the iPad). I just need to verify that the ammeter hole is the same as the clock, and also verify that I can move around the placards as needed to make a 3⅛ hole. I should be able to do that tomorrow. Thanks for the validating thoughts. I mocked up the "ready to land" annunciator idea: Daytime / Normal Cruise Ready to Land / Ready for Takeoff Night Cruise The main thing I don't like about it is that it seems like cognitive dissonance that Ram Air Off is when the light is ON. Otherwise, I kinda like it.
  4. Howdy all, Since I like the EI CGR-30P instrument and they're running a $1,000 rebate on their combo package, I've decided to make the move in my '78 J and upgrade to some "glass panel" technology - eeek! I have a couple of questions I wanted to pose to the knowledgeable folks here on MS. Location Originally, I intended to get only the 30P. However, I realized that my 40 year old instruments aren't getting newer or more reliable, and then I succumbed to the rebate offer for the 30C as well. Here's my panel now (two images stitched together to get the full view): With just the 30P, the obvious choice was to replace the Horizon digital tach. With both, I'm not sure about the 30C placement. Ideally, putting it underneath the 30P would be nice, but I'm hesitant to relocate the clock (where?), cut a bigger hole, and figure out placement of the placard under the clock. The next obvious spot seems to be either the MP or RPM over on the right (since they can be removed anyway). But I'm concerned it's too far away and harder to read/use. Another choice would be to place it in the panel area where the transponder is currently located. Thoughts? Functions For those familiar with the 30P and 30C, the literature says these two instruments can replace 5 + 16 primary functions. If I select everything my airplane even has, I don't have 21 functions so I guess I'm good: However, the combo package configuration sheet doesn't give you the option to say where they go. Sounds like they will choose for me? I guess I'd like a little input if I could, but is this all FAA regulated as to where the functions go? Annunciators I was filling out the optional annunciators section and had a thought. What if I put the top row of annunciators as almost a "landing verification set"? So, the top three annunciators would be: GEAR DOWN; RAM AIR OFF; BOOST PUMP ON. I feel like that gives me - at a glance - a quick way to verify that I'm ready to be on the ground. For takeoff and landing, all three lights should be green. For all other flight, all three lights would be off. Is that a crazy idea? (Or even possible?) The second row of annunciators could be more in line with what they suggest. Since I have three lighting switches, the second row of annunciators would just be: LANDING LIGHT; STROBES; NAV LIGHTS. Obviously, I would shorten the annunciator names to fit within 7 letters. Units While filling out the worksheet, I'm sticking to with what the POH states for everything - including units. My understanding is that you can't really vary from the POH anyway. However, I've noticed a few oddities that I wonder how they will work on the gauge. In the POH and in the airplane panel, the CHT is in °F and the EGT is in °C. How will this look on that kickass bar graph on the CGR-30P? Does it matter? I also want to change the fuel units to gallons instead of pounds like they are in the panel, but I'm not sure if that's legal. Why I love the simplicity and mostly unmolested nature of my J. I kind of hate to make these kinds of changes. However, this newfangled technology isn't going away and old instruments only get older. With 1,600 original hours on the engine and airframe, I'm getting close enough to TBO that I want more detailed monitoring of the engine. The primary motivator is to get the CHT and EGT readings, while also wanting to watch the fuel flow and oil temperature. When I fly my airplane, nothing moves on the gauges. It's great. Temperatures are just so consistent and reliable. Just a quick little twist of the mixture knob when I change altitudes is all I really ever have to do. These gauges will just give me even more confidence (or alarm!). Future This upgrade is part of the larger master plan where I am also purchasing a Lynx NGT-9000. I also have a second KX155 that I'm getting a glideslope module added to. For this phase of the upgrade, the radio stack will be changed to remove the KX170, add the second KX155, and add the NGT-9000 in the center stack. The old transponder on the right panel will just go away. That'll be a lot of empty panel space. For those that read this, thanks! For those that didn't, I don't blame you one bit!
  5. It's still in progress. The remaining tasks to do in preparation for the annual are to fix the flaps (they won't extend - something hydraulic going on) and reassemble the interior. It's all just a matter of finding the time....
  6. Thanks again - I'll keep this thread updated as I make progress. It should only become more valuable as more work gets done on it, right?
  7. Yeah, I agree with all of the above. That's what I would like to do, in the perfect world where I had time and a place to put the airplane. The mechanic is an on-airport guy that does all the work in peoples' hangars, so I can just tow it to his place. Last night I may have worked out some options for short-term storage. That will greatly open up my options for getting some work done on it and getting it ferryable. Hopefully, anyway!
  8. Yeah, I agree that I'll be out either way. I personally think it would be a fun and informative project to perform work on this airplane, even if for nothing more than a deeper education on how these airplanes work so that I can apply that knowledge to my beloved J model. But, like you said, who has that kind of time to burn? As for quotes, I've had the mechanic that's worked on it while it was flying give me an estimate of barely $1k to get it in annual the way it always has been. I've had another mechanic give me a "from afar" estimate of complying with ADs and all that to get it in annual to be more like $10k. For the non-AD annual, I wouldn't feel good about that, although that should at least make it ferry-able. For the full monty, that would take time and money and hangar space that I don't have, plus we all know that estimates on airplane work never come in under budget. So at that point, I feel like my loss is even greater. Which is why things like donating, scrapping, recycling, and/or parting out are on the list. To my knowledge, parting out would end up like: $big money for motor $medium money for prop $500/ea control surfaces $100/ea avionics $500 for the Powerflow Exhaust A year later I have a wing and fuselage that I can't get rid of But at least I would feel like I've helped the community a bit.
  9. Thanks! It was a complete disaster when I purchased it. My old man brought his truck down and we filled it up with just the metal scraps laying around to recycle. It was over 1,100 pounds! Now that it's all cleaned out, adding bathrooms and all that are the next steps. Even with it cleaned out, however, I can't find a way to get both Mooneys to fit in there so that I could do some work on the one that I need to get rid of.
  10. Absolutely no disrespect taken! This is exactly the type of feedback I'm hoping to get. As I mentioned, this is all new to me and I don't know what the best options and path forward is, or if there's liability (or guilt) for putting the airplane back together when it's been sitting and/or has airworthiness directives pending and all that. The oil pump gears AD has been out there for quite awhile, but the airplane was always successfully annualed either because the owner/mechanic didn't know or didn't care about it. My understanding is that now that I'm aware of the information, I'm liable for informing the next buyer (or for paying a mechanic to remove, disassemble, fix, and reassemble the motor). I would actually like to put some of the airplane back together, truth be told. I like mechanical stuff. But I don't have the time or a place to do it and I'm getting yelled at for having the airplane sit where it is. I have a potential lead on a short-term tie down, plus the weather might be finally clearing up, which might give me a better chance of putting it together and starting it up. If I could find the time. My philosophy in aviation is that I should never be offended at critiques, criticisms, or suggestions. That goes for my flying techniques as well as what to do with an airplane. I really appreciate the suggestions and feedback.
  11. Thanks for all the comments. I have a soft spot for vintage technologies and a bit of nostalgia for the flying days of yester year, so I would love to see a machine like this back in the air where it was designed to be. However, I recognize that without the right combination of dedicated people, it’s likely that the safest place for this bird is to be out of commission. In any case, I’m looking for options. Selling, recycling, parting out, restoring, donating, finding a training school for mechanics, or whatever. It’s ironic that my first foray into airplane ownership has accidentally netted me TWO airplanes. So now I’m learning about the challenges and joys of ownership by diving in head first! Looking forward to more feedback and comments!
  12. Hi everyone, I've been a lurker on this forum for a few years as I've researched and eventually purchased my M20J. What a great group of Mooniacs and such a plethora of information! I sort of hate myself for my first actual post to be a "For Sale" ad, but maybe this will encourage me to participate more in the rest of the forum. Well, anyway, here goes... I bought a hangar for my M20J and a 1962 Mooney M20C airplane came with it. The owner lost his medical and didn't fly for awhile, and hence the airplane was neglected for several years. The information I have is based on what he told me, what the most recent mechanic has told me, and what I as a non-mechanic can see by looking at it. I'm not an expert by any means, but am trying to provide the best and most thorough information I can. From what I gather by talking to the mechanic for this airplane and from my own M20J mechanic, and whatever tidbits I could get from the previous owner, the airplane should be able to fly after the following: Inspect and clean spark plugs (if necessary) and put them in Attach spark plug wire leads Hook up new cluster gauge (looks like oil line isn't attached yet) Assemble cowling Assemble right wing tank Finish assembling interior (copilot seat and a side panel it looks like) Fuel up The above list is what the mechanic is expecting for it to pass annual. However, I also scanned all of the logs and took photos, and sent them up to my M20J mechanic, and he reviewed them all and made some assessments. Note that he has never seen this airplane in person - his analysis is from the logs only: Two ADs are the most important Oil pump gears AD Eddy current AD No record of gear pucks ever being replaced No STC for panel upgrade Full report at: So I don't know what that means as far as getting a ferry permit or making it airworthy or whatever. That's above my pay grade, as they say. Here are some additional notes that might help answer some additional questions you could have: Currently located at KBTF (a bit North of Salt Lake City) Currently out of annual, as I mentioned Mods seem to include: Cowl enclosure Wing roots J window Powerflow exhaust Owner claimed an air/oil separator, but I haven't confirmed "6-pack" style panel Both brakes work well (pressed and held for 1 minute while two others pushed on the wings) Battery is good - master comes on and landing light is bright A local mechanic says it looks like a newer one Hooked it up to a tester which reports "Good" Only flown 130 hours from 2002 - 2011 Last compression results from the logbooks: 07/26/2011 (at 1244 tach) - 72, 75, 76, 66; 09/06/2002 (at 1104 tach) - 79, 79, 79, 76 Sitting outside now, but hangared most of its previous life (according to owner) Spark plugs and wires are disconnected, but present Extra set of 8 used plugs; unknown condition Engine has compression when rotated by hand Oil looks full and clean Right fuel tank covers removed I was told the tank was being inspected for leaks for the annual I was also told the tanks were just re-sealed by a local mechanic Under wings don't appear to have blue streaks or whatever Unknown condition of rubber hoses/tubes/seals Tires appear to hold air just fine - they've been pumped up for 4 months now Appears to have new cluster gauge partially installed, but needs hookups completed Copilot seat currently removed A few trim panels also removed Box of all kinds of screws, parts, logs, etc. left by previous owner Unknown if all screws and parts are in here Engine cowling is not fully attached - just held with a few screws Four rubber doughnuts on the mains, three on the front wheel As I mentioned, I've scanned all of the logs and records. I've also ordered the title and registration reports and all that. Here you go: All Logbooks Reports Now for the fun part. Here are a bunch of photos I've taken. Please note that many of the photos were taken when it was still in the hangar as I was purchasing the hangar. It's not in a hangar now. Also note that all of these pictures are taken by me and were taken recently (since December 2017). Photos Price? Well, I paid $30k for it, but it was primarily in order to get a precious hangar. I know it's not worth anywhere near that, despite what the owner claimed. I'd like to of course minimize my losses, but having the airplane gone is more valuable than holding on to it to squeeze a few more bucks out of it. I have no place to store it and the airport has an 18 month waiting list for a tie down. I'm using up good graces of my hangar neighbors to have it tied down right now, but it needs to be gone. In other words, make an offer. Getting it off of my hands quickly is worth money to me. It's currently registered in my name and of course I'd fill out the appropriate FAA forms to get it transferred to you. There's no lien on it. Feel free to ask any questions you'd like. I can go take pictures of anything or whatever as well. Jeff