turbotrk

I wrote a couple of mails to Mooney support to ask them about my problem. Of corse they suggested to check LOW BOOST output pressure to be max 8psi but they did not want to reply to my question: Is it possible that a normal operating (8psi) low boost pump can cause the engine to quit at at high power settings if mixture is not immediatly leaned? If so should the pilot be warned about this danger as the only warnings are given about high boost pump? Got no reply to this question wich was asked twice. On the first time they told me that low boost is for emergency only ( wich I know) and it is not supposed to be used at idle (not my case ) and that TSIO 360 can be flooded pretty easily. I think that there is a serious safety issue here, the checklist should specify to control fuel flow with mixture to avoid engine to quit when pump has to be turned on and then back off. The metering system of tsio 360 does not compensate for extra pressure added by the engagement of any auxiliary pump. The output of mechanical plus electrical pump will summate changing totally the air to fuel ratio. I have flown tsio360 for years and never had to use such pumps but the first time I did the result was not what I was expecting. Can anybody of you try to engage the low boost on the 231 or 252 during flight to see what happens?

Sony action cam movie creator. Gps is integrared in the cameras.

Sorry, I made a mistake with synchronization of the movie when editing so i deleted the old and now it is showing the corrected one.

The problem with battery is that it is not far enough from the cg to make significant change while weights get positioned in the tail at station 172. So 20lbs over there are the equivalent of 60lbs in the baggage compartment. The aim is to generate the biggest momentum with the lowest weight increase possible.

I have a pretty highly equiped 252 and on mine useful load is 680 lbs. Basicly two peaple and full tanks and I am a little bit overweight. The biggest concern on the m20k is anyway the forward cg, on mine I had to install 20 lbs fixed ballast in the tail (mooney kit) as I was landing with trim full nose up. After installation the plane got much better handling and +4kts ias cruise speed gain. What is your actual empy weight and cg?

Arrival at LATI airport from LIBD on a nice summer day. Triple view movie with gps data.

Tought this as I possibility, on the ground I activated low and high boost and I could hear the pump running at different speeds, (high faster).

Thanks, I do have a fuel flow indicator but being quite low altitude And 10 miles from home base I just tought to reset everything and get the plane down. Then once on the ground to identify the cause of the problem.

I went flying today to perform some checks to understand the situation. I eventually came to the following conclusions: Much of the flight was performed on the left tank, a little bit of air must have formed in the right fuel line and when the tank was selected near the end of the flight the air caused the engine to run rough. The activation of the Low boost pump immediately solved the problem but pretty quickly it caused the opposite problem (too much fuel) but with the same apparent simptoms. It was difficult to understand it because everithing happened pretty rapidly and to restore the situation i switched back to the previous tank and turned off the pump. This is the point: although the manual does not specify this in the vapor suppression procedure if you turn low bust pump on the engine is likely to quit just as soon as the vapor is removed due to overrich mixture. According to POH this problem occurs with high boost pump wich is forbidden to use unless mechanical pump is broken. I did the following tests to replicate the problem: 20" mp 2200 rpm lean to peak (descent) low bust on - engine quits 25"mp 2500 rpm lean to peak (cruise) . Low bust on- egt decreases ff increases by 8gph but engine still operates 25" mp 2500 rpm full rich . Low bust on - engine quits. Basicly you have to lean the mixture quite significantly to get the engine to operate normaly when low bust is selected on unless you are at high rpm and at least 25"mp lean to peak wich means that it is very easy to misunderstand what is happening. If vapor builds you activate the pump, you solve the problem but in a few seconds you are in the opposite situation! Low boost is not safe guarded , but it is almost as dangerous as high boost! This is vapor suppression procedure according POH: Low fuel boost pump ............ON Fuel flow............. Monitor Low fuel boost..................OFF No warnings at all!

Hi! Yesterday while coming back home base on a cross country flight on a 252 on a hot day I started descend form FL 80, I had almost finished the fuel on my left tank and the low fuel light was on while I had about 14 USgal on my right wing. I always plan to land with not less than 12Gal in at least one of my tanks as I want to make sure that in case of go around fuel can be sucked properly (mooney did not demostrate take off with less than 12gal). Fuel remaining was sufficient to go to the alternate wich was pretty close and wait for about 45 minutes. I was set with 20mp and 2200 rpm and mix leaned to peak. Passing 3500ft I changed to the right tank and just afer a few seconds my engine started to run rough, I put the low boost pump on and it stabilized but as I advanced the throttle the engine wanted to quit. Same problem when trying to set rich mixture. So I switched back to left tank and problem solved but in it I had just enough fuel to land at destination. Afer landing checked remaining fuel quantity and everithing was as espected, 14gal on right wing and 2 on left. I turned the engine on to try again on the ground , selected right tank and set different power settings but problem did not replicate. The aircraft had flown a previous flight of one hour plus 1:10 when it had the problem, preflight checks were done properly and fuel was drained. After take off I selected left tank and flew for on hour without changing. Could it be the fuel selector? Any similar experience?

Yes you are right, Italy is far behind abuot LPVs. Don't know what yor comparison about USA and Alabama is abuot but always remamber that 2000 years ago Mr Caesar came to britain while you were still with clubs and Romans made Londinium, and any town in your country wich name ends with chester. It was us by the way. Always try to respect other countries or states, As I am sure there are peaple from Alabama on this social who would not like your way of talking. Just about Europe I should say that you still have Pounds instead of euros , so you are shurely less european than us. In a few years maybe you will join India and your Jaguars will be TATAs. Oh, well, they are olready!

I went to local Garmin center 2 years ago and asked to update to terrain and they told me it would not be possible. So I have to assume they gave me wrong infos.

Yes, it's getting better, as usual italy is behind and Rome FCO airport is forbidden to GA aircrafts. For sure in the next years a was upgrade will be worth it also in my country.

I'm happy you like the work done

I perfectly agree with you!

USA is a much greater market than EU, I can tell you that I was lucky to buy my second 430 because at the time prices were much lower and also 1€ was 1.36$. Now it would cost much more and anyway for each product we have to pay at least 25% extra cost for taxes. Not many gtn sold here in italy due to crysis. I know about that everybody here is looking for desperately a cheap 430 to upgrade to 8.33. In the next 2 years no more flying without 8.33 and mode S. Very few peaple here can afford to spend 20.000€ for a gtn 750 to be installed and fly happy with an Ipad on their knee. Anyway do you really think I was a stupid to buy a 430 for 3600$ instead of a kx165 for 4000$? Or an altitude pre selector for 700$? Or pac 24 for 500$? An Air data computer for 800$? Better to give 5000€ to garmin instead of all the other options?

I had one 430 from my old a/c, I bought the second on ebay for 3600$. Garmin asked me for 2700€ (not $) x 2 to upgrade to waas. EU regulations required 8.33 radios to fly ifr starting from 2014 and I needed to replace old radios with something else like KX165 8.33 that was not easy to find and costed 4000$. Waas in europe is almost useless so I decided to spend money on air data computer and altitude pre-selector as well as slide in replacement audio panel pac24 found on ebay for 500$ and mode S transponder.

I had one 430 from my old a/c, I bought the second on ebay for 3600$. Garmin asked me for 2700€ (not $) x 2 to upgrade to waas. EU regulations required 8.33 radios to fly ifr starting from 2014 and I needed to replace old radios with something else like KX165 8.33 that was not easy to find and costed 4000$. Waas in europe is almost useless so I decided to spend money on air data computer and altitude pre-selector as well as slide in replacement audio panel pac24 found on ebay for 500$ and mode S transponder.

Ils , and COM transmission is old staff. My ipad does not make coffee but think about tecnology involved, what is revolutionary on on gtn units, touch screens? Multicolor displays? An ipad if interfaced with an autopilot could do it without problems , all you have to do is make a crap interface, but it would not be certifyed. Due to certification requirements aviation is always 10 years late compared to other markets. A gtn 750 is in real life old tecnology not worth 14.000$.

I agree with you, but things are changing and new avionics layouts are made of all in one systems wich are much more expensive. If your radio fails you can easily replace it with another one, maybe newer costing 2500$, but when a G600 or G1000 will fail with no spare parts available what will be the cost? GA is suffering a big crysis and maybe they can kill old avionics but also many airplane owners that won't be able to afford anymore such upgrades. A stupid GTN 750 is 14.000$ although it is not able to do 1/10th of what my ipad does.

I can tell you for sure that a big avionic center in Germany repairs such units and will do it for the future, garmin does not even offer the opportunity to update the navigation database, in fact you have to do it through jeppesen. Also terrain upgrade boards are over? So you are telling me that probably in 20 years if you have 60.000$ avionics like gtn 750-650 and g600 or even better 100.000$ G1000 you will have to throw it away?

Hi guys, I would like to ask your opinion about garmin behavior regarding GNS 430 assistance. A few years ago they decided that anybody who owns a gns 430 will not be able anymore to upgrade to terrain or get his unit repaired unless upgrading to waas. If I don't get it wrong they don't like the fact that many peaple don't upgrade to GTN and keep buying second hand gns 430 to replace old radios and nav. So what they say is: We want your money wether you will upgrade to GTN or you will remain on GNS we will make it impossible for you to keep using your old unit unless you spend at least 3000$. Now do you think this is a good policy and should we thrust garmin for the future? My old King KMD150 will still get assistance and also many old instruments made by Bendix King, goodrich and others who are involved in aviation by much longer than garmin. Who knows, maybe in the future they will make new units that will autodestroy if you don't pay for the bribe when they ask you to.