JohnB

At 65% power, above 16k, you can pretty much rely on 200+ kts ground speed without wind at 18.5gph. If you Dont mind going slower, you will burn less fuel, you can dial back to almost any setting you wish with less speed, at cruise i.e. 17 or 16 gph or even 15gph, If fuel is your only concern. I don’t remember what speeds I would get at 55% at same altitude, but guess it might be around 180 ground speed. So an ovation or 252 , or a J would definitely beat a Bravo in fuel economy. But you can easily fly it slow if you wish and you’ll get those 15gph numbers but most Bravo owners just use the higher fuel burn and stay fast.

This was my favorite software upgrade to the GTN. I've found that even if your filing IFR and ask for a visual approach on a clear day, you can get it, and with your GTN upgrade, you can fly a near precision like approach to a runway that doesn't have one which I'm sure looks pretty slick on radar.

You will not have anemic performance above 10k with a Bravo. Mine gets up to 900 fpm comfy climb above 10k, and around 600 fpm comfy climb above 20k. You'll get well over 200kt speeds above 18k consistently. You will pay for that though in fuel cost. The first rule in owning a Bravo is we don't talk about Fuel Costs.

I hadn't yet seen this report thanks for mentioning it, thanks PTK! I'm thinking of upgrading to glass and am considering glass with round backup, or all glass. After reading these accident reports, I'm leaning towards the former. So to me, this is an important topic! Here's the link for anyone who also might be interested in it. https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/safety-studies/Documents/SS1001.pdf I thought it was fascinating to read, and from reviewing I found that: Problems such as a blocked pitot tube intake that would have affected only the airspeed indicator of a conventional six pack display can result in loss of airspeed, altitude, and rate-of-climb information in some glass cockpit displays, or air data computer failure warning with multiple red X's depending on the manufacturer. The NTSB study included Mooneys in their accident evaluation, and there were no fatal glass cockpit accidents in the Mooney group (probably a small sample size function, but comforting to read) Apparently AOPA did a similar study (which I have not yet reviewed) and showed a decrease in fatal accident rates in glass cockpit equipped aircraft. Ill go through the AOPA article when I find it, but some lessons I learned from reading the NTSB report, it clearly tells me that it is critical in whatever system one gets, understanding the equipment and exactly what it's behavior would be on certain failures as we are all familiar with in our training with 6 packs, but is different for glass cockpit equipped aircraft. Also, that getting glass shouldn't allow a pilot to think he/she can get into more challenging weather safely because of glass. It is noted there is a much higher number of IFR /IMC flights in the glass group analyzed compared to the conventional 6 pack group in the NTSB study which very likely contributed to the difference reported.

One other plus the AOA is great for is determining best speeds irregardless of your weight, that helps to make perfect landings every time and even more important, but hopefully never to be needed, your best glide speed if you ever need it. You just fly your aoa best glide and you will get your best glide speed without having to factor in your gross weight.

I had an Alpha systems AOA installed in my Bravo a few years ago. Hugely positive experience. My installer had not installed one before. I suspect your mechanics may be voicing to you uncertainty If your installer also has never installed one. It's a very simple install and the installation manual that comes with it was really easy to follow according to my installer, took less than a day, as it attached to a wing inspection plate. Doesn't require an STC, as it is classified as a minor modification. My installer had to adjust mine once after a test flight, then after I calibrated it in flight, haven't had to touch it in years. Very accurate, very helpful in detecting and alerting you about pre-stall conditions well before your stall horn does anything.

I’m flying out of SoCal, And even with our weather being ok most of the time, I find my instrument rating so much easier to get through our Bravo and other airspaces, even if the weather is CAVU. I’ll file IFR from my iPad an hour before, so even if I’m leaving from an uncontrolled field, atc knows where I’m going and it’s a snap getting ifr clearances in the air. And there are many days when my airport is reporting marginal VFR, which I would call imc, where rather than having to divert to some other airport, try to punch through holes in cloud layers vfr which I think is much scarier, less safe and much more stressful than just executing a approach (I put up a video here somewhere of an approach to LGB that the weather was reporting marginal VFR, and you can see it’s clearly not to get there), wait it out or get a hotel somewhere else if the weather deteriorates not forecasted, not a problem to land where you intend to by just executing an easy ifr approach.

The only way I know of to test the gear horn is in flight, with your gear up, go to low rpm and it should sound. Tested also as part of my slow flight and stall practice.

+1 on Leading Edge Avionics, formerly Western Avionics at SNA. I have had very complex avionics installed by them, complex avionic issues, fair trade in values for old equipment, and previously mystery electronic issues completely solved by them, they are very thorough. If its something simple like a swap out, anyone can do it, but they get a lot of business from other avionics shops as a referral when they can't figure something out. Not cheap, and usually very busy (its best to schedule an appointment at least a month or two in advance for big upgrades) Ha and yes @TheTurtle, they haven't installed everything yet, but Ill fix that next year! Yes lets go flying! John

I'm in! Looking forward to it!

I used to have that problem on hot days intermittently, or quick turnarounds, and 95% of the time, one of the many techniques worked as all mentioned above. I was wanting to go places where there is no external battery, so I wondered what would happen if I had trouble starting in the middle of nowhere airport. So I purchased a slick start -> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/slickstart.php?clickkey=6866 and almost no matter what i do, hot start, cold start, flood then lean start to mixture in, full rich warm starts, half rich hot starts, and they all seem to just work similar to starting a car. It seems like cheating it's so easy now, but now i never worry whether my plane will start on the first or at most second try.

That’s a great idea! I’m in if the date works with my ludicrous schedule!

Great idea! Let’s do it!

Another Socal Mooniac! Welcome Neighbor!!

Was looking at another board, and I saw this post from a Marauder a long time ago. Was this you? If so Im definitely interested in your experience. " I have been flying for 25 years, 22 of it in the same steam gauge Mooney with dual Nav/Coms, dual ILS CDIs, ADF and even a LORAN to boot. My closest thing to "glass" was a portable GPS that I updated every few years. Last December I finally upgraded to glass (Aspen 2000) and a WAAS GPS. IMHO the improvement in situational awareness and the redundancy was well worth it. For those who say an electrical failure will disable a glass cockpit, try flying an ILS to mins when that same electrical failure hits your electric driven Nav radios and CDI. My Aspens are capable of full reversion and both have battery back-ups. They even can maintain the GPS flight plan information in case it goes down. I like my odds better today. I still have a vacuum AI and elected to keep my ASI and altimeter because I do like redundancy. My only regret is that I waited so long..." If this was you, how long did you keep your AI and ASI? I'm feeling the same way this poster did about redundancy. Did you ever look at it once you installed your glass? Do you wish you had gone from all steam to all glass, or mostly glass then all glass like it seems like you did?

Hugely helpful, thank you sir. This is going into my mostly glass with steam backup vs all glass decision making process. Thanks!

Maurauder, the ESI-500 looks very impressive. I very much like the nav function back up of it, in my reading it looks like it gets input from your gps source or your vor ils source but I couldn’t find if it had any independent nav source that’s run by its battery that supposedly only lasts an hour. Do you know on yours, if you turn your master off, will the nav functions still work? Or will you lose your nav as it would be tied into your electric gps/GTN/gns source assuming you’ve removed all of your steam nav gauges?

Hey.. I didn't yet see that L3 ESI - 500, that actually is certified as a backup instrument and has a battery, ill look into it! Thanks!! Wow.. and I thought mistakenly that the G5 could be backup to replace steam gauges, hugely helpful guys. So if the G5 can't be backup, its just adding another device for comfort. You guys are saving me even more money thanks! So Lets see.. so now im looking at A) installing a 10.6 TXi/eis, keeping some of my vacuum driven and pitot instruments (AS/AI/ALT/HSI), ditching the others except my stormscope. Then in the event of TXI screen failure, I would be good to go IFR on my backup instruments, and with total electrical failure, I would have my AS/AI/ALT and maybe part of my HSI but might lose nav?- I think this would protect from every conceivable 1 system failure i.e. total electrical) OR I could ditch them all , get an L3 ESI-500 with nav and keep my stormscope which would be cleaner with room for more gadgets (although I cant think of anything else I would ever need after this upgrade, but of course I didn't know I needed a TXi until it came out) - I would lose nav if the L3 is tied to GTN/GNS electrical, but that would be my ipad backup solution. Actually just thought... I could just buy a $300 hand held transceiver with Nav/Com built in, so either of the two above would work with total electrical failure, and I could get to a VOR/ ILS airport without much worry or loss of comm. Hey more money saved! I know the possibility of electrical fire is remote, or someone setting off an EMP while I'm flying (ha!) is ludicrously remote, but with all of these electrical gadgets going in nowadays, I like to at least be prepared somehow to get out of IMC in case my master has to go off. (And we would probably have bigger problems if an EMP went off anyways ha!) JB

Yes.. I know the MVP 50 has great user definable customization screens, checklists and other things that the EIS doesnt, but I just wanted the EIS to replace my HIGHLY unreliable and non replaceable factory gauges and may keep my EDM 830 as secondary if i still have panel room as Ive already bought that. My biggest debate is whether to ditch all of my steam gauges and put in a G5 backup.. Ok I have a side question for you @donkaye. if you ever had an electrical fire IMC and had to shut down your master, your G5 would be on to keep you level via its battery, but would you lose all navigation? Would I need 2? (one with the HSI function) I'm trying to prepare for an all electric failure IMC with my next upgrades, which right now I think I'd be ok as long as I can see my gauges! If this is too sensitive a question, you can answer offline. John

Thanks Dave! Hey you and Don may have saved me some dough, as now I don't think I need a flightstream 510 at all since I already have a 210 to do bluetooth flight plan updating, and if I just use the two card set, at home transfer, i should be good to go anytime? What a great community.. thanks guys! John

Good to know! Ok ill have to include the price of getting a spare G500 card to do at home just like I do for my GTN. thanks again sir!!!

Dave, I am interested in your experience as im thinking of upgrading to similar to what you have. According to one of the webinars I looked at, after you upload your data from your ipad to your GTN via wifi, it then transfers to the G500 via "high" speed bus which can take a while (40-60 minutes they say), but I think I heard them say you can upload this in advance of it expiring so you can upload everything wifi in advance of the expiration date, so it would later transfer to the G500 as long as you're flying a bit before your current cycle expires, but would not activate on the G500 until the current cycle expires? If this is not true, and you have to wait until the cycle expires to upload a new one, that would be a major problem for me and I would rather do the multiple card swap that im currently doing, is that possible with a G500? I fly IFR a lot and would not want to spend 40 minutes with my battery on just to get my charts current! Great topic, ill be following with interest. John

Don, It might not be such a plus for you since you already have a very cool primary engine gauge replacement (which I was going to get if this wasn't primary), a 10.6" would be redundant, and other than touch screen, not sure much difference between two G500 screens and two G500TXi screens would be other than touch screen, the map in HSI and higher resolution (as so my installer says). Very nice that you get to play with these before you consider, if mine is installed before your June deadline, I'd be happy to show you. Great, that Garmin upgrade sounded welcome.. can't wait for mine!

Hey Don! I couldn't open your webinar link, but I just attended one and found out you can add optional remote buttons if you like and place them anywhere you wish on your panel to control your screens rather than always using your touchscreens. BTW, have you upgraded your GTN to the latest software ( I believe its 6.21) adding visual approaches to just about every airport in the US with advisory glide slopes? Also sounds nice. Ill hopefully be getting that next week. John B

I researched this with Garmin and the answer is YES, the EIS TXi is designed to be a certified primary replacement for your engine instruments, AND can be configured at time of install to display certain optional parameters you wish to monitor on the side strip and the full engine display screen, similar to what you can customize on a primary MVP-50. This would have been a non starter for me if the TXi didn't do this, but it does! So I'm looking at installing the 10.6" display with EIS and replacing all of my factory engine gauges, and keeping a few backup gauges. (I still am leery to go ALL battery/electric nav instruments). It's still going to be a while as I don't think Garmin has got all of the certification paperwork ready for our Mooneys yet until early next year, and is bound to be back ordered once they do, but I'm planning now. JohnB