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SOLD – 1987 Mooney M20J 205 – N205S Hangered in Colorado Springs, CO (KFLY) Personal plane that we have flown for 100 hours in the past 13 months. Expect 162-164KTAS on 10-11gal/hr. This plane is fast, efficient, and fun! The “205” got the 252 mods without the turbo. It has the 2900lb gross weight increase (976lb useful), 28v electrical system, one piece belly, inner gear doors, all speed fairings, improved cowl flaps, the higher 140kt gear down speed, preset 1st and 2nd notch flaps (15 and 33 degrees), and back seat frames that fold flush into floor for plenty of cargo space! Read the “remarkable 205” article online for more general specs. Most recent annual completed 13 February 2022 overseen by Savvy Mx Program; no squawks noted, compressions were 74/75/75/77, all spark plugs replaced. Previous annual, January 2021, completed by Don Maxwell to include rigging. Interior was completely refurbished during the 2021 annual and included all new interior plastics wrapped in ultra leather to match the exterior. The yokes and glare shield were done by Aerocomfort in San Antonio. The seats were done in the same chocolate leather with a Porsche 911 style of the same vintage. The paint was done by Cheyenne Airmotive in 2002 with a moondust base, oak brown striping, and a medium green acry-glo paint. The avionics were redone in 2015 and includes the large Avidyne 540 FMS/GPS/NAV/COM, tied to the Aspen 1000 PFD with GPSS steering, synthetic vision, wind aloft info, TAS, OAT, etc. connected to the BendixKing KAP 150 Autopilot. This setup allows you to fly coupled RNAV and ILS approaches, GPSS, fly a heading, altitude hold, etc. Additionally equipped with the Avidyne AMX 240 audio panel with Bluetooth, and Avidyne APX 340 transponder with ADS-B in/out capabilities. It also has a JPI EDM 711 Primary which gives you all EGT’s, CHT’s, oil temp, etc. with CHT and oil temp being primary. The FAR 91.411 and 91.413’s are in compliance and are due 11/30/2022. This aircraft has 3724 TT, 651 SMOH done in 2009 by Western Skyways (2000hr recommended tbo), 651 SMOH on the 3-blade Hartzell top prop conversion, and the oil has been changed every 30-40 hours with Philips XC20w50, camguard, spin on filter, and oil analysis with Blackstone Laboratories. Minor damage history (incident) in 1992 on the takeoff roll when the pilot struck a snow bank due to a frozen brake. Sale includes matching Bruce’s canopy cover, n-numbered chocks, and n-number cowl plugs. Asking $189,000. Private message or call/text if you are interested and/or need any additional information. We had not planned to part with this amazing aircraft so soon, but given some unforeseen health issues, I am unable to fly for several months and can’t bear to see it sit. Hope it brings the next owner as much pride and joy as it brought me. Trade-A-Plane Listing: https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=MOONEY&model=M20J+205&listing_id=2411351&s-type=aircraft Ryan (406) 431-2310 N205S 1987 Mooney M20J 205.pdf

Update to the situation! I will NOT have to go to AK this time around. Good news as I just got the plane, hangar and I'm pretty involved locally with our EAA Chapter and other things. Pretty happy about that.

Thank you for your input as well as everyone else’s. The airport I’m considering to start out at would be San Diego Brown field (KSDM), which seems to lack an on-site rental company and seems to get a decent amount of traffic that would likely make it a little profitable.

Hi Brad, Its still progressing although slowly. Too slow but at some point the log jam will break. Thank you, David

Anybody worried about personal use of a related trademark or copyrighted material just look into "Fair Use" or the "fair use doctrine". There are many, many situations where permission is not required to use protected intellectual property like trademarks or copyrighted material. Personal use is usually one of them, especially if you apply the trademark to the item that the trademark belongs to, i.e., a Mooney trademark applied to a Mooney. I am not a lawyer. "Fair Use", however, is fairly easy to research.

[emoji13] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I’m considering possibly venturing into this side hustle by buying a car and leaving it at a local airport to make it available for GA pilots to use when there isn’t a car rental option at that local airport. Do you think this would be beneficial for GA pilots? I know that location plays a big part in where to station the car(s) but do you find that getting ground transportation to be one of the biggest challenges when visiting smaller airports?

FYI: Put on by Dave & Ruth Our next event is this Saturday, September 10, at Pyper Kub Cafe at Williston (X60). Fuel price yesterday was $4.81 self serve. All events start at 11:30.

I’d fix them asap. Garmin is telling dealers they have a fixed amount of parts left for the 430’s and will stop support once they’re gone. That and supply chain issues for old tech displays and electronics means the end is in sight

Holy crap, I wrote almost the exact same thing back in '18.

Hi and thank you for your responses. No bad experiences at all. It was a terrific experience to own my Mooney and be part of this community. I met bunch of great people on the forum and in person as well. It really was special. I have posted my M20J for sale here and I think I have indicated that it was sold. Long time ago ( June - Registration process is very slow this days). But I am still receiving inquires about the plane. That's why I though maybe I should delete the account. I don't mind to come back here and there ( which I do ) and check on you. Ok, no more deleting. Anyway, I have sold my Mooney since my mission changed. No more flying more than 1 passenger. No more long cross country very often. Low and slow is my new motto, but with open possibilities for IFR, Key West, Bahamas, long cross country once a while, newer simpler machine. I have order while ago Flight Design F2 ( LSA for now but who knows what the future brings). Rotax912i, high wing with huge windows, cabin 52" wide, parachute, airbags, Garmin, Autopilot,... There are some delays in production because of situation in Europe, but early summer next year is the goal.

Some ideas here:

I rented from a local Enterprise near LaPorte when I did my transition training and picked up my plane. We called and arranged to have the car picked up at the airport instead of shuffling things around. Later that week, the office called me and wanted to charge $200 to pick the car up at the FBO. WTF?! For less than 5 miles????? They were going to be nice and cut that in half. I told them that doing so would lose me as an Enterprise customer. So they waived the fee. Strange thing was, for free, they would have driven me back to the airport, OR they were closed, they would have refunded me the cost of an Uber to drop the car at their office. Makes NO sense.

I taxi so leaned out that I must enrichen it to taxi uphill. Parked in grass once, started engine, leaned and taxied fine until I reached the asphalt and the engine died. Just lean enough to be safe and not foul the plugs! Fortunately, hot starts are stupid simple with the O-360.

That one looks homemade to me. I have a spare pump with intact seals if you want to put eyes on it. I have a hard time believing that a credentialed mechanic did that to a seal. I’ve seen some poorly done mx but that takes ham fisted to a new level.

It's up to the installer and the STC Holder of any equipment to ensure THEIR STC is not compromising a prior STC, or would be outside of the approval of their own product BECAUSE of a previously installed STC. I ran into this trying to install a "Certified" (FIKI) TKS System on a 1986 Bonanza. We were planning on getting the Tornado Alley Turbo Normalized system installed and CAV would NOT install a FIKI system on a plane with ANY prior mods (and they seemed to imply ANYTHING, even a thicker windshield). We called Tornado Alley and they said install the TKS first, and they had no problem certifying their install of the Turbo System AFTER that. My shop is protecting ME. If I did this without the proper approvals, at the time of a future sale this could be called out as an illegal installation; being submitted as an STC (on an unapproved Rocket) rather than through a Field Approved 337. My shop has submitted to the FAA for the records of the Field Approval (337, not STC) of the Garmin A/P in a previous Rocket (identified earlier in this thread). With that in hand, the 337 will be a really easy submission to our local FSDO. Admittedly, they could have sent in a 337 on the "proposed installation", but every FSDO handles these differently. Ours seems to be one of the more challenging ones. Bottom line, as a result of this post and feedback, I can now proceed forward with my panel upgrade quote. Thanks everyone!! Tom

I found this on Garmin’s webpage. Apparently the GNS 430W does not display TFRs.

I built a few hundred new airplanes over about a 15 yr period and did the production test flights on every one, none were perfect There are no perfect new airplanes either, in fact there are no perfect airplanes, period. AH-64’s were manufactured in Mesa Arizona, new units formed up at FT Hood Tx. and drew their new aircraft and went through unit training, as I was stationed at FT Hood we often were used to ferry the new aircraft from the factory to Ft Hood to await the new units forming up, none of them were perfect either. How many people have new Avionics installed and it all works perfectly from the beginning as opposed to those that have bugs to work out? Neighbors 90 yr old Stinson, I can assure you it’s in as good or better than new condition, oh and I believe it’s for sale if anybody want a real classic airplane

You can take the fire extinguisher out for the annual and install after its signed off.

My IA said the FAA is all over IAs about fire extinguishers. They are using DOT regulations, not FARs to make the case, much like O2 bottles. IOW if it there, it has to be maintained.

Have you lost yours or is it leaking? I’ve had good luck getting them to seal by staking the ball against the seat.

Finally some updates. Decided to keep her. Panel is almost done I will get some more pictures once I pick her up tomorrow.

I live in Florida and replace my Mooney every five to six years. Once the sun melts your paint and it puddles on the ground it doesn't take long a wing to fall off due to corrosion. The horror stories are real but we have lots of beautiful flying days so you learn to live with it.

If an old school airplane is properly maintained, there is no too old. I say old school as more modern materials do sometimes have a use by date. There are many pre WWII airplanes flying around everyday, as long as money is spent maintaining them there is no too old. Even aircraft with wood spars can still be airworthy. Actually the old airplanes are easier to keep flying, not much to a Cub or Stearman, no special parts. There are some things in a Mooney that could require someone to be creative, one day we will be finding a suitable linear actuator for the landing gear etc., but they do exist

Then the question of how old is too old. I mean even the year 2000 was 22 years ago.

Yeah I agree, just like you can’t just a 150 for $30 an hour anymore.

That was completely done when the tail was installed. It was done by one of the better Mooney mechanics here. He gave me the rigging dimensions, And had shown me proof of the rigging, and they were spot on. The horizontal is level, as I've been able to trim for level flight without any issues.

Thanks to all for your feedback on this topic. It's greatly appreciated!

I think, if polled, you would find alot of airplane owners much like you. Myself included. My airplane gets its annual, its IFR cert, pitot static check, etc, etc, etc. If I find something that is not quite right I get it to the people that know far more about it than I do (my &P/IA) and they sort out what needs to be fixed. I think a lot of the folks on this forum are very mechanically inclined, like to know absolutely everything about every nut, bolt, joint, moving part etc... and in fact it is kind of impressive to me the level of knowledge the folks on this forum have and the ability to recall it on an instant. They are impressive. But, don't worry, I would think you are in the norm when it comes to airplane ownership.

The line typically starts as a hard aluminum line at the #3 cylinder, converts to copper, through the firewall and converts to flex. They often chafe or crack near the cylinder…especially where it rounds the bend. The bleed hole is usually on the bottom of that line near the tap. In the short piece of video where I see MaP, it seems to move a little in rhythm with the surging. Question is, what comes first???

Have you considered maybe taking it somewhere else completely? Locally here in central Oklahoma, David J Perry (1k4) has covered hangar space for 85/month (blow thru). Three sided for 95/month. Something to consider. It is particularly dry here during the winter and we do not get heaps of snow, Have it ferried out. J

I’ve only rented a Turo once but I liked how the platform is set up. You take photos of the car, the dash, the fuel gauge, etc. You pay through the app and Turo keeps a portion of 15 to 40% depending on the level of “protection” you want, kind of like insurance only they don’t call it that. I would like to see the option, on Turo, of being able to rent it for less than a day. I’m not sure that’s an option. But maybe something like being able to rent it for 2 or 3 hours to go get lunch or run an errand. And the deadbeats you mention would certainly be a concern of mine. I also believe that doing it right might involve registering the car under an LLC to protect you and not registering it in your own name.

Since he's the only one in the country that we know of that's willing to work on these orphaned portables and panel mounts, we are probably better off not knowing.

My plane moved from Waukegan to Florida 2 years ago. Plane is parked outside at KLNA. No issues at all, when I went back to Wisconsin for my annual I got compliments on the paint and 0 corrosion. People especially those who don’t live in Florida like to chime in how terrible it is. The key is to fly your plane and keep it clean. I did see several planes with crazy corrosion but those seem to have sat around for extended periods and 2 of them were from California. CorrosionX or ACF50 do work well if needed.

Ok, just saw I'm being paged... I agree with @201Steve...find another shop if you own a Rocket and are trying to have a GFC500 installed in it. @Yooper Rocketman are you trying to get one installed? Where is this FBO? I just screenshot this from the Garmin site, highlighted for your reference. Mentions nothing about a Rocket being "specifically excluded". You will note if you go to that site there's an * after the Socata Trinidad and at the bottom it says "some serial numbers excluded"...so they could have done that here if there was an issue. in any case, I have a Rocket and my GFC500 is installed with a 337. If you need one, call AATG, I'm sure they'll be happy to do it for you. Stop visiting that FBO in the meantime...

I’d have the airframe fogged with Corrosion-X before I went, in my opinion it’s something that should be done every few years anyway even if your not in Fl, not real expensive and it really does work. Only caution about it, is if you going to get a paint job real soon, don’t Corrosion-X, it will slightly seep out of every seam and make painting difficult. It does of course “go away” over time though. ‘Corrosion in Fl is real, it’s not some wives tale, but it’s not instant death either, it’s usually a very slow process taking years to do damage.

You know my house insurence has a rather large named storm deductible, same thing on our boat when we lived aboard. Why isn’t there a rather large deductible for aircraft? Every time we have a bad storm I feel sure some are hoping this is the day the insurence company pays out, because their ramp tramp isn’t worth it’s insured amount anymore. It annoys me no end that aircraft get left out tied down knowing a Hurricane is coming, I mean nothing can get out of the way of a hurricane better than an airplane, it almost never gets IFR until about 24 hours before the storm hits. I admit I left mine in my hangar, and Ian was supposed to march right over us, but by the time it gets to central Fl it’s not the storm that made landfall, and my hangar is a concrete block building. We had no plans to evacuate. Ian’s track was well South of where it was supposed to be, it never made the North hook it was supposed to, so we got not much Wx, only lost power for a day. If we ever are supposed to be hit by Armageddon, you can be sure we are taking the airplane before we try the highway, I’ve seen that mess more than once, no thank you.

Yes, an FCU failure, none the less, ultimately, an engine failure at 500’ with no option for a turn back with the most ugly options with, literally, seconds to make the right decision to actually survive the situation. Tom

Some are as you describe, but not all. The fleet is aging however, and isn’t being replaced, the FAA loves to talk about the aging aircraft “problem”, but statistics don’t yet reflect it, very few aircraft have accidents based on age, nearly zero. Insurence guys can speak to that, in fact I’d say the aircraft seem to age better than the pilots. Please don’t tell my 76 year old airplane or 100 yr old car they are rust buckets, they don’t know any better. I’m certain they will still be doing their job when I’m gone as my 41 yr old Mooney should

My Executive has been hangered it's whole life and the exterior paint leaves a lot to be desired. However, the airframe is clean and corrosion free. I don't really care what anyone thinks of it. It's safe, operational and has an excellent dispatch rate. It's purpose is to shepherd my family and stuff to different regions of the country at 150kts. I could not give two $hits what the pilot lounge, coffee club curmudgeons or a potential shopper thinks of it. It’s not for sale. It’s a tool for travel.

My dad’s Arrow lived in a hangar in Carlsbad (CRQ) for 6 years with no corrosion issues. I had it on the ramp in Oakland (OAK) for about 6 months and it had quite a bit of corrosion found on the next annual. I think FL tends to be more humid than CA so I’d probably try to borrow a hangar if you can.

My choice vs yoke: XNaut cooling with ram mount/suction cup: -Don

I find the best situation is just a 3D print yoke mount to hold my plus sized iPhone. I have a full sized iPad that clips into the right panel, but, really, I find myself just using my phone or gtn instead.

IMO, there are two reasons to reduce power in the descent in any airplane. Airspeed control and engine cooling. If you are not concerned about either, no reason not to descend at cruise power.

Made it to Miles City, MT to overnight

MMs, You are bumping into an area that is kind of unique… you might want to clear up why you are training for the IR… what is it YOU want? Because, the young guns heading towards their ATP might be thinking you are on their same path…. If you are more like I was… ADF, VOR and ILS was all I had…. My first IR training went on hold because there was no MS, and even crummy insight was hard to find… Honest quick discussion with potential CFIIs… “Can I earn my IR, with this panel, with you as my CFII?” Great honest question… My biggest problem was my compass was having difficulty with a magnetized roll cage… MS has answers for that as well… degaussing… As far as DME goes… it wasn’t the most popular device in the panel for most GA planes… and has been replaced by GPS distance for the most part… nice to have… now or after you have the IR… Have two independent ways to get to the ground…. What was once called precision approaches… The ILS will do it… a WAAS GPS approach will do it… This is a safety issue… descend to within 200’ AGL to find the bottom of the clouds before landing… You will be spending a fair amount of time over the clouds… and many miles of clouds you fly over can get close to the ground… and stay there a long time… You may need to descend through them for a landing… Expect your favorite nav box to go dark one day… So have a good plan B for that… Briefly… many modern GPS navigators, also have VOR, and ILS, in their same box… like a G430W(aas) +1 for second AI… because the TC has proven to be disappointing too often… Being able to fly in the system is a great safety enhancement… PP thoughts only, not a CFII… Best regards, -a-

Pictures on Beechtalk taken by one of the passengers just before the crash and obtained by a news channel show 5 well built adults inc one in the luggage compartment! Looks like natural selection just missed out this time.