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I’m well overdue explaining my off-field landing incident on May 9 of this year, as a result of the D- 3000 dual mag failure. Caution – long write-up but hopefully there are some takeaway points of value here. My wife and I departed from our home base in California for the Chicago area in our M20J as we’ve done many times before. Day 2 we took off from Page, AZ - direct Albuquerque - direct Salina, KS. Enroute at 11.5K nearing Albuquerque we began to hear what sounded like a very faint rattle emanating from the belly area. Listened for a bit and it started to get more frequent. Began troubleshooting to see if it might be engine related. Changed prop, mixture, throttle, pump, tanks with no affect. Best I recall all items on the engine monitor appeared normal. No change until switching to Left mag – nearly dead. Right mag was better but rough. Immediately turned to nearest airport. Declared an emergency with ABQ approach and informed the controller of my situation. Unfortunately, Double Eagle was a couple miles beyond the FF glide ring. Within the next couple minutes the left mag completely failed and had only partial power on the right, but that also failed in the next few minutes. Now it was truly an “oh darn” moment, or words to that effect. How both mags checked good during preflight and both were now failing was not a good feeling. All I knew was I needed to make the best of a bad situation. I tried to reassure my wife that the plane flies perfectly fine as a glider now, we have about ten minutes to reach the airport or find a good place to land and we’ll be alright. We gained some ground on the glide ring as we continued but were battling some 40kt headwinds. Kept the aircraft clean and the glide speed faster than normal in an attempt to minimize time in those strong winds. Glider pilots minimize their time spent in sinking air by flying faster for the same reason. I kept Approach informed of our progress, that I had no power, that I thought it was a dual mag failure and that I might not be able to make the airport. Then came the standard issue question - say number of souls on board and fuel remaining. My wife remained remarkably calm throughout and even helped by scanning around for possible landing locations and obstructions. The fact that I am a fairly experienced glider pilot did help immensely in my opinion. During the entire power-off descent and landing it all seemed rather normal to me because every landing in a glider is an engine out landing. Airports are nice but fields work too. Approach handed me off and Tower had already cleared out traffic for the inbound emergency and cleared us for any runway but winds were strongly favoring 22. It is so gratifying and special to know the ATC professionals will do everything in their power to assist an aircraft in distress. Despite making up some glide distance, it was looking very iffy that we would be able to make the runway. Several miles out we identified what looked like a good open space short of the airport boundary clear of power lines and obstructions. It was our go to place if needed. At about 1000AGL those hangers, roads and fences on final approach looked like something we might not clear. Without hesitation I told the tower unable to make the runway and we're going for the field. The last thing I wanted to do was to try for the airport at all cost only to stretch the glide with disastrous results. As much as I love my Mooney the thought went through my mind to use the plane to save us. I rolled out parallel to the active into the strong headwind, lowered the gear and flaps and did a nice smooth full stall landing on the sandy desert floor. We looked at each other, did a quick embrace and said somewhat jokingly, well that wasn’t a bad landing. We ended up about 100 yards from the airport fence. Tower controller was watching the entire event and offered a big compliment. I let them know that the airplane appeared undamaged and no injuries. Emergency personnel soon began to arrive, followed by airport and FBO staff as well as the FAA. The largest fire in NM history was in progress and the last thing anyone wanted was an airplane crash to spark another blaze in the windy desert scrub. Everyone, and especially me, was relieved that the Mooney was sitting there unscathed. No damage to the prop or even the gear doors, not a scratch that I could see. Full stall landing into a strong wind on the semi-soft surface made for a very short landing. FAA measured the roll out at 322 feet. The two gentlemen from the FAA were extremely nice but also professional. In fact one of them owns an F model so we bonded a bit. They did check the airplane for fuel and oil just to make sure I didn't do something really stupid. They took pictures of the plane as well as my documents and the airplane documents to verify everyone and everything was legal and current. Basically a ramp check in the desert. They also requested I send them scans of the latest annual logbook entries when I returned home. After everyone was satisfied we were fine and all the paperwork was done, one of the maintenance guys offered to help with his small Jeep and a tow bar. It was an easy pull to perimeter road and onto the ramp. Given the situation I’m extremely grateful for the outcome. Day VFR at cruise over a desert having just flown over rugged terrain. Luck played a big part but I’ll take it. Those sounds at the beginning of the event were likely afterfires in the muffler due to incomplete combustion in the cylinders. One would think EGT would be spiking but the JPI 830 didn’t show that and the engine data doesn’t reflect anything out of the ordinary either from what I tell. So what happened? The next morning I met an IA at the plane. We pulled the infamous D-3000 dual mag and right away observed that neither set of points was opening. That's on a recently overhauled mag with 209 hours on it replaced two years prior. Something caused both rubbing blocks to wear down prematurely – and remarkably simultaneously. I’m going with lack of lube because it appeared the oil pads on the points were dry with some fibers scattered about inside the distributor cap. But both sets, and simultaneously? Other commonalities to the failure could be bad surface finish on the common cam, contaminated lube, defective rubbing block material. So, bad parts or a bad rebuild? The FAA says they are looking into it but who knows how long that will take or if anything will come of it. Maybe if more failures occur it will become a higher priority. In the meantime the mag was field repaired (points adjusted and oil wicks lubed, engine timing set) and I flew it back to my home base. It just came out of annual with an emphasis on looking for any possible damage due to the off-field landing. As mentioned, not a scratch or any problems found. I subsequently made that Chicago trip, without my wife this time, and the plane performed perfectly. I plan to have the point gaps checked every 50 hours to see if there is any trend or cause for concern. Lessons learned. When something doesn’t feel or sound right it might be worse than thought. Wasted a few precious minutes troubleshooting before turning to the airport. Pulling back the prop might have improved the glide. Never trained for it, only read about it and being task saturated at the time didn’t think of it. Forty plus years and thousands of hours, mostly in Mooneys, without an engine failure doesn’t mean it can’t happen. I fly a Mooney for safety and its good looks, but also for its efficiency which means I frequently fly direct. Been rather cavalier about flying over inhospitable terrain. My glider buddies call that Tiger country. Glider experience helped. Kept things somewhat routine. Stay current and legal. You never know when a ramp check can occur. Practice various emergencies. Commit important procedures to memory. Single pilot ops too task saturated or no time to look it up. Squawk 7700 in an emergency. Didn’t think of it and wasn’t my highest priority. Hopefully missed my one and only opportunity. ATC already had me as an emergency. Add more items to the survival kit. Could have been far from help or injured. Love Mooneys but hate dual mags. I don’t want this incident to significantly change my flying. Unfortunately, it’s changed my wife’s flying. It was a rare event and the odds of it happening again are highly unlikely. However, the reason for this failure is largely unknown. I’m still flying with the same mag but checking Left and Right in flight now and especially before entering IFR conditions, nighttime or Tiger country. Fly safe.

I'd seriously avoid being an early adopter of the Electroair dual mag, they don't have a good track record with the single mag installations. Their technology on the single mags is very outdated and problems are so numerous that many adopter have reverted back to their old mag after their tech support staff has been unable to correct issues in a timely matter. I'd be very wary of them till we have ample time to see how they do.

Nose truss, discs, hardware and paint.

QAA doesn't have a reputation for quality either, despite what the Q stands for They're popular because their capabilities list is so exhaustive a shop doesn't need to search any further to find some one to repair something.

True, but many of the mechanical ones show no Red X when they or the vacuum fails…

Did not fix it. What did fix it, is I installed a Dynon HDX system with engine monitoring. Fuel pressure is rock solid into the low teens. I suspected the JPI sensor early on, and had even had them test it. I'm guessing it was the wrong sensor becuase of the way it reacted to altitude

LOPs mag check seems like a really good thing to do - probably periodically - maybe not every flight but maybe every month or two? But - I think definitely over an airport.

I tried to do a LOP mag check today and here's what it looks like with a Surefly in advance setting. I was only at 6,500' (~24.1" MP), so it would be even worse higher because it would have more advance. Egts went up when I turned off the mag, but not a lot and the engine was still smooth. Slight decrease in speed, but barely. When I turned off the SF, EGTs went way up, very rough, and airspeed dropped quickly (#2 plug may be a bit weak too?). I know yours is different since it's fixed timing, but since we were talking about it earlier, I'll post it here. Before switching back to both, I pulled power back to prevent the backfire as SF takes 5-10ms to come back online - you can see the EGTs all fall together at the end.

Thank you for your thoughts. As I asked my instructor if he had any more ideas, he did! We turned that Mooney every which way but loose! Full power high G tight turns, side slips, rapid climbs, etc.(consideration given for ripping control surfaces off)..... any maneuver we could think of to force the gear to lock itself into the down position...... a tall order it was, but we tried. After all that, I came to grips with what was to be. Safety for my instructor and myself was number one. I’m sharing this information, as you stated, to possibly help others with my experience. My situation and experience, of course will not fit every situation. It’s most difficult to unsee the video, and to stop thinking about this tragic occurrence.

My D3000 inspection this year was $3000 at Kelly, and I seriously considered going the ElectroAir route —- but since dual mag failures are rare and they’ve been basically reliable mags for the IO-360 “D” fleet, I figured I’d rather do the next 500 hours on a D3000 than be a guinea pig for an electronic ignition. If anyone does install the ElectroAir mag, I’m very very eager to hear about it. I’m hopeful that the early adopter problems are all worked out by the time I need a new mag

If it was me I'd get the Dynon Skyview and have them pre-wire for the Dynon autopilot. Dynon owns a Mooney M20J and they swear that the next single engine airframe after the 182 is the Mooney. The Dynon autopilot will allow you to control it from the HDX screen or the optional panel mounted controller.

Nicely done, and very glad for the outcome.

I've owned four Mooneys; C, [turbo] F, K & M models and have flight time in C, E, F, G, J, K, M & R model Mooneys. Additionally I have owned three Beech products and am about to get my fourth next month (S35 Bonanza and two B55 Barons so far). While it won't be popular on MooneySpace, I believe the 33/35 model Bonanzas to be the finest single engine airplanes made. If you want to hear others echo that sentiment, head on over to BeechTalk Yes, the Mooneys are generally more efficient and cheaper to maintain but the Bonanza is just so much more comfortable and an absolute joy to fly. Cabin widths are virtually identical. You can even measure to the armrest cutout in a Mooney and show the Mooney is wider but that's inconsequential. The cabin is much higher in a Bonanza and the huge windows make it seem to be very much larger inside the Bonanza than the Mooney. Early Mooneys sometimes feel like I'm in a tank looking out the tiny windows. Gross weights, useful loads and true airspeeds are generally greater for the Bonanza. That comes at a cost of fuel consumption and a bit more engine maintenance. For the same hull value, insurance and airframe maintenance will be very similar. You have to look very closely at one or two things with a Bonanza. The first is the empty CG. Bonanzas do shift CG rearward as fuel burns off but it isn't nearly the issue that some make it out to be. My rule is I will not look at a 33/35 series Bonanza with an empty CG above 80.0. The second is specific to the 35 series Bonanzas. Make sure the ruddervators are in good shape. Replacements are available but they are quite expensive. Download the free Bonanza Performance App and play around with various configurations for W&B. https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bonanza-performance/id910038344 Personally, I wouldn't look earlier than a J model Bonanza and only if it had an upgraded engine. You can put a -550 in a J or later Bonanza which transforms the airplane. At least get an IO-470 with a modern prop on any Bonanza. Bottom line: They are both good airplanes with somewhat different strengths and weaknesses and they will appeal to a sightly different audience. You won't get a fair comparison here on MooneySpace. You also won't get a fair comparison on BeechTalk but ask questions on both sites and digest the information provided and see what's right for you.

get the fluorosilicone O rings. It's a safety thing.

I just did some training last weekend and worked with a guy that has the same system in his airplane. (Big shout out to @mike_elliott and his guys for a great session). One thing that has still yet to be resolved is the VNAV function on my autopilot. We simply could not get the VNAV to arm on the autopilot head. Quick Reference of my setup: -Dual G5's -GTN650 xi -GFC500 Autopilot -I have "VNAV Enabled" turned ON in the GTN box -I have set the lowest altitude on the G5 Altitude bug -I have entered all the parameters for the descent profile (altitude, fix, descent rate, etc) Once all of this is done, all that should be left to do is arm the VNAV on the autopilot head, but the button will not arm. Can you think of anything that may be preventing this from working properly? Setting issue? Software issue? Hardware/wiring issue? I have put out the same query to the installing shop as well. Curious what feedback comes. Thanks for your feedback! Have a good day

Did some transition training today for a friend into his Ovation.

I cobbled this together several years ago. Works well. I need space in my garage! Free to anyone picking up in Knoxville, TN.

Nice. A couple comments from my engine out experience... 1) Once the FAA determined my engine failure was due to a Lycoming defect they lost all interest. They were only interested in missed inspection, maintenance. 2) They never asked me for my logbook. They pointed out that with Wings they already have our BFR on file. -Robert

The O2D2 is the only way to go. I just used it on two 3+ hour flights and cannot see that the O2 system pressure needle moved.

Towing limit decal? Did you try LASAR? Or you can make your own... https://lasar.com/placards-decals/decal-towing-limits-bars-150056-a2022r

If you're lucky they'll be doing aerobatics in front of you and it'll be obvious. If not...um... I'd rather have the red X.

Does the cable have a button? My 67 has a cable with a button in the middle of the knob.

Yhe SB only requires visual inspection of the large o-ring, adjusting tension if required and a pressure test.

Good move - I think it'll be worth the wait. I was aware of the Baron, I mentioned that the Mooney is the next single engine airframe after the 182.

Absolutely the most enjoyable thread I’ve ever followed on MS! Best parts: when you sat in the cockpit and had to turn off the camera “what have I done I bought a Piece of $h!+. Better part when she fired and the joy and elation flowed through the video!!! I’ve had those moments with mine as well! Truly a difficult process to take on! The Time and logistics of finding mechanics, getting them on site, I’m sure getting parts is a nightmare etc. I enjoyed you slaying the nay sayers from the beginning of the thread. Reminds me of a scene from an American Classic: Kelly’s Heroes “what’s with all the negativity Moriarty?” Shows what determination great German mechanics and faith in a Mooney can accomplish! I can’t wait to follow your future endeavors!

While doing a pre-flight this morning, I noticed that the right MLG tire looked a bit soft. So I cranked it up and taxied over to the maintenance hangar to pump it up. I shut down in front of the hangar and got out. One of the IAs was walking toward me, looking at the ground under my cowling. I followed his gaze and saw the smallest piece shown below, and said “please don’t tell me that came off my airplane.” Sadly, he said “yep, fell out of the spinner when you shut down.” Bottom line: the spinner bulkhead disintegrated as soon as we removed the spinner. As you might notice, it had apparently been coming apart at radial cracks propagating in at least three places. I’ve been flying since 1967, have owned multiple airplanes over the years, and I’ve never seen this before. I don’t know what would happen if the bulkhead came apart at 2500 RPM, but the wonder is that, except for needing air in the tire, I would not have seen this problem. It would at least been a BIG vibration from an unbalanced bulkhead and if that went on long enough, loss of the spinner itself seems possible. Just my lucky day.

well I updated to 8.00 hopefully I get to try it out tomorrow

I have flown my friend’s Cherokee 140 with it. I found it to be very intuitive and it performed very nicely for a basic AP. In just about an hour of playing with it I felt pretty comfortable. The coupled GPS approach worked really well also. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Have you flown in your friends Bonanza especially in light turbulence? We were partners with a neighbor in his v-tail and i was not a fan of the wig-wag going through the sky. Some people it doesn’t bother them and others felt like it was rocking them to sleep but not me, i got nauseous. Back then I wasn’t instrument rated and had a fear of the bonanza’s nickname doctor killers. While it is a safe plane in the speed envelope there is very little room for overspeed error causing flutter and v-tail failure. There was a mooney in Canada that lost both ADI’s in IMC conditions and got into some high speed dives and luckily popped out the bottom of the clouds without hitting the ground and landed. When they pulled the data for the flight the mooney had gone well past VNE and i thought yea if he had been in a v-tail he probably wouldn’t have made it.

Beautiful airplane - very fair price.

Well, I am very interested to see how that would really play out. To my knowledge there has NEVER been a "blanket" STC issued that requires ABSOLUTELY NOTHING be done to alter the plane and universally applicable to ANY piston aircraft that runs on 100LL. The rules are there, ultimately, for reasons of safety. If the FAA issues such a blanket STC, what is the safety risk of NOT having the STC? Unlike the 94UL STCs which required proof for each model issued an STC performs properly (some aircraft are not eligible for good reasons), my understanding is that GAMI is looking for "universal approval.". Where is the risk? And, criminal?? You must be joking...how often has the FAA gone after pilots criminally for violating an FAR? I'm just waiting to hear all of you examples. How many are still incarcerated? Tears are coming to my eyes thinking about the Feds cuffing a pilot when he fills up with G100UL without that precious STC! As far as 91.9, seems to me you are using aviation grade 100 gas in accordance with your POH. Not seeing the violation.

Flying gliders is great “hip pocket” experience when it gets real quiet and you need to pick a reasonable place to set it down safely. Glad you didn’t have to pull the wings and trailer it though! Well done.

I have had mine in there for a long time without updating them. They work great and I’d prefer to leave them alone.

After[emoji50][emoji846] Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk

X51 used to be a great spot but Mr Roberts has retired and left. I’d go for KTMB and skip the current regime at X51.

I have had 3 chrome cylinders “overhauled” and they’ve been fine so far. Not sure exactly what magic tgey did on them, but when I tried to have the 4th done a couple years later, I found it very difficult to find a shop that could do it. Ended up buying a steel one.

Just got back from a trip down the West Coast from Oregon, with stops in SQL, MYF, SMO and MFR to visit some family and friends this summer. Some comments and photos in no particular order: It was hot. My wife got some evaporative cooling vests that worked pretty well. It has hydrogel pellets in some pockets, so it doesn't have to be soaking wet to work, and retains enough water to last for most of the day in the heat, especially in Medford. Airport PIREPs: I hadn't realized SQL has no self-serve fuel, so remember to call Rabbit Aviation ahead of your departure if you need fuel from the fuel truck. SQL is a relatively short runway, and after touching down I braked firmly anticipating this, and then realized with embarrassment I still had about 1000' of runway left (8 kt headwind). Transient parking was available on a Friday afternoon. CrownAir in MYF was fantastic and they helped out with getting the rental car. Their tiedown cost isn't cheap ($20/night) compared to transient ($9/night), but when I was last at MYF, transient was completely packed so I didn't want to worry about finding a spot. As it turned out, of course, MYF was pretty quiet when we arrived. There is no self-serve fuel at SMO either, the only SS pump is for UL94 fuel, by decree of the Santa Monica Homeowners Association. You have to call Atlantic for the 100LL fuel truck at $8.50/gal. Transient parking is $20/night, and there's a $24 landing fee (the best argument I've heard against touch-and-goes ) I fly into Medford frequently, and Million Air there is always great. Lot of firefighting ops going on right now, and when we were there I saw a weird sight of a Marine UH-60 and AH-1 being refueled by the FBO Some ATC shenanigans: While on an IFR plan, I vaguely heard someone identifying themselves as "Icon" and it sounded like he was going in the opposite direction 1000' above me. I vaguely thought that was odd, since the Icon A5 wasn't IFR capable, and wasn't sure if it was capable of getting up to 11,000' MSL either, but I was curious to see one for real. Then ATC called me and said I had a C-17 opposite direction and would I like vectors to avoid wake turbulence, and I said "that'd be lovely." We spotted the C-17 about 20 nm (!) away, and as we came within a couple miles, the C-17 called visual on us. At that point, I realized he was using the callsign "Icon", so I thought it was funny I was expecting to see an Icon A5, and instead saw a C-17 up close Anyway, kudos to ATC for offering On the flight down from SQL, I picked up IFR in the air, got new routing, then realized a couple minutes later when talking to the next controller that the new route put me through a restricted area around the Hunter-Liggett military area. I asked the new controller if the area was active, and she said yes and that I'd need to avoid it. When I pointed out I was on an IFR plan, there was a long pause, after which we negotiated some vectors and extemporaneous routing. I suspect my IFR plan got lost somewhere crossing sectors, and the next controller thought I was VFR. No harm done, since we were in severe clear, but my wife got pretty nervous listening to it. The northern California fires continue, although the surface winds and winds aloft have been helpful, so the smoke wasn't too bad except for directly over the area. I took the coastal detour through the Oregon/California border both ways. Radio reception with ATC there can sometimes be a little spotty, though Strange sight in Medford Landing MYF San Diego coast San Francisco and Bay Area from the east Landing SQL Oregon Dunes near Coos Bay

Hi There, I looked for this addition a couple of years ago, and apparently Lasar sold a kit to add a movable arm rest to seats for aircraft with a johnson bar. Unfortunately, when I tried to order it they no longer have/sell/fabricate the parts. I think it involved a shaft and some sheet metal work. This would be a good addition when reupholstering the seats, as one would need to cover and add foam to make them comfortable.

Let us know how it goes! This is what I am contemplating for my C, a fraction of the airplane's total value rather than the multiple that Big G wants to extort . . . . . Wish the Skyview A/P would get approved!

If this really goes this way and G100UL does get approved and put in distribution under an STC, I don't think this will mean individual aircraft owners have to purchase STCs. At least, I don't see a way that that could be practically implemented. Nobody is going to be at a pump to check that you have the STC before you put it in, and in a situation where 100LL isn't available, it's pretty obvious what people are going to do. As previously mentioned, Continental already shows multiple non-ASTM-specified fuels as approved on many of their TCDS, and Lycoming has a Service Instruction referenced by their TCDS citing multiple international non-ASTM-specifications as well, but for an engine installed in a certificated airframe the airframe TCDS applies. The Mooney TCDS doesn't provide any detail other than the previously cited reference to specified "minimum grade aviation gasoline".

If you are away from home and they get sticky, a drop of oil from your dipstick works wonders.

I’ve tried to find private grass strips I can see on the charts and never could see them. Trying to pick out a grass strip surrounded by green vegetation is very difficult and could have been blocked by his wing in the moment he looked around. I try to find hangars before I look for runways, even with regular airports. Easy to do sitting in your easy chair with google earth looking directly down, but with no engine, mind racing…road probably was easy to spot and inviting, probably line up well before small town and glided further than he wanted.

Once he looked at the road as a probability, he was fixated on the road and saw nothing else. Once near landing it looked like he tried to avoid a car and that didn't work out well for them. Road, lake, field, chain link fences are better than big oak trees, trains, big trucks and brick walls. Avoid hitting those head on at all costs.

I was thinking "Who in their right mind does transition training in Tucson in August?". Then I noticed the Air Conditioning scoops on the Ovation!! Beautiful airplane!

If I put in an armrest, how would I reach the snacks & drinks (and occasional papers) that I keep there? Bottles and travel mugs slide naturally back to rest against the back seat, easily reachable in my C. Then again, I don't have a J-bar that swings through the space and blocks the floor in flight . . . .

Welcome aboard Mike! I believe there is only one arm rest shared between the two seats… it is a bit oversized and attached to the pilot seat… But, since the seats can be swapped from one side to the next… expect that hardware can be probably moved as well…. Trying to move the Johnson bar with the arm rest in position could get interesting… My 65C didn’t have the arm rest…. Best regards, -a-

Operating the Johnson bar with old blocks is also extremely hard. With new blocks and properly rigged landing gear is way easier and safer.

Thanks for making it a painless transaction. I pick it up Monday and the real learning begins!

I was able to find the plastic overlays at Vantage Plane Plastics for my F. Takes some work to get the lights transitioned over but it can be done. I don't mind the look at all. If I do anything more extensive down the road, I'll make a new AL panel.