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I was at the Mooney PPP this last weekend. A number of people asked what i lean to on takeoff and my answer was I don’t. (KSAF is at 6300). They seemed skeptical. i know a couple of of veteran 231 flyers who still think that is the best way to climb. My point is that the concept of engine management in a turbo is foreign to pilots used to flying an NA and everyone tends to revert to Na methods, which are entirely wrong for turbo engine management. The aerodynamics of flying the K are not that different or hard compared to, say, a J. Managing the throttle is not difficult either. it is getting your head around engine management where a pilot new to turbos needs to have some authentic help, and frankly I have flown with some veteran instructors that apply NA engine management also. Go to Paul,or someone like Paul who knows turbo engine management.

Here's what it looked like the last time I tried that.

And by Paul, he means @kortopates, not me just incase that wasn't completely obvious! I couldn't agree more. While I didn't have any transition training prior to flying my turbo Mooney home, there were countless conversations with @kortopates and @KLRDMD, and Brian Lloyd about how to fly turbos. I'd only owned the 252 for a few weeks before going to Ada, OK for the weekend, in person, APS class. I didn't see all that much difference in the flying part, takeoffs, and landing, between the M20K and the M20C. There are certainly differences but nothing an average pilot can't adapt to quickly. But the engine management is very different. And if you don't know, you don't know.

Final update, I hope. A&P did some investigation and found a misplaced wire when the relay was installed. They fixed and I am told everything is back to operating properly!

Decades in the making...I'm finally an aircraft owner after flying for 30 years. Proud to enter the Mooney family with my new-to-me 1967 M20F Exec 21. I look forward to learning from the old-timers on here and hopefully can add some value as well. Many thanks to Mike Schmuff for a seamless aircraft transfer and checkout. A very good dude! -Brad "Spud" Davis

@Shadrach, I appreciate your comments. Let me try to address some of them. 1. You’re putting a lot of words in my mouth that I never said. Please direct me to where I talked about absolutes and certainties. Science and medicine don’t work that way and I am careful not to use those words. 2. I said “If 99 out of 100...” to illustrate a general concept but you’re claiming that I said 99 out of 100 epidemiologists agree on some statement. I’m not sure exactly what that statement is but, regardless, that is again something I never said which you’re attributing to me. 3. “Having difficult conversations” is quite different that posting offensive memes, insulting various people, and bragging about being socially irresponsible. I’m fully in support of the former but usually find more examples here of the latter. 4. I’m glad you have firsthand experience with 5 adults with COVID. I’ve seen over 500. Since you point out how important the “n” value is, odds are that my sample more accurately represents the population as a whole. Very basic statistical concept here. I also agree that most people do fine with COVID (I’ve never said otherwise) and I’ve been saying for over a year that the mortality rate is on the order of 1%. The problem is that if millions of people get COVID, that 1% becomes a big number (32 million cases and 573k deaths as of today in the US.) 5. I don’t know anyone who is disappointed when a public health disaster doesn’t happen. Perhaps you need new friends 6. Smart people can say and do crazy things. You brought up HIV. There is a man named Peter Duesberg who was a brilliant biologist and did some of the early groundbreaking work on cancer genetics (oncogenes). I met him once. Nice guy. Very well accomplished. He also claimed HIV doesn’t cause AIDS and was quite vocal in these statements. Turns out he was wrong. I read the Barrington Declaration. I thinks it’s a political piece and disagree with most of the conclusions. I’m sure smart people were involved. Doesn’t mean they’re right. 7. COVID-19 is a “novel coronavirus.” We started off knowing very little about it and had to base early decisions on that. There’s still a lot we don’t know. When I don’t know the answer to something (is the engine running rough or is it ok?) I try to make a choice that causes the least harm if I’m wrong, because I know I’m not always right (I’ve written here about this several times before, despite your claims of my absolute certainty). I don’t like masks, but if I’m wrong about them then it’s an inconvenience. If I’m right and I don’t wear masks the people die. 8. I think bandannas are stupid, too. I wear an N95 mask or nothing at all. At work, I wear an N95 under my respirator. 9. Thank you for your genuine attempt at having a dialogue and not just making offensive political statements. I hope others will follow your example.

I would like to pass along an excellent customer service experience with Chase Larabee of Avionics Source. I recently purchased an Avidyne IFD540 and was having my avionics shop (Abilene Aero) do the installation. Last Friday, the shop called and said they had a little problem. Of course, I’m thinking something catastrophic like an engine hoist fell over and crushed a wing or something worse such as a Bonanza was trying to mate with my Mooney and have a litter of Moonanzas! The actual problem was the IFD540 powered down during the configuration setting process and would not power back up. Avidyne stepped in to help after a call from the shop. Between a great company like Avidyne and Chase, working on my behalf, the result was a new IFD540 is heading my way. This is great customer service and I wanted to pass the story along to fellow Mooniacs! If you are looking for an awesome place to purchase avionics, I would highly recommend Chase Larabee of AvionicsSource.com.

What Doc said. If you had tank work done, it probably has sealant blocking the hole. If not, there is probably debris blocking the hole. If you drain the tank you may be able open it up from the bottom with the valve removed, if that doesn't work go in through the fuel level sender hole. If it is sealant, pokeing something through doesn't always work. The sealant will snap back and close the hole after the poker is removed. You have to somehow remove a little bit of sealant.

My home made one will cool air for a couple hours with a 20 lb bag of ice in it, I've used it on a two hour flight back to SoCal from Phoenix in the summer. The trick is having a lower flow sump pump so you aren't circulating the water as much. If you like do it yourself projects it is a fun one. https://intothesky.com/homemade-ac/

Jaeger himself installed his kit and full later upholstery from SMS in Duluth, while my airplane was at Wilmar for tank reseal. Mr Jaeger was a pleasure to work with and the results are gorgeous.

Hah, the first vacuum attitude indicator failure was in a 68C model. Then I moved to our K which had a lot of...questionable...wiring behind the panel when we got it. Shops hated working on it. When we finally gave the avionics shop the green light to rip it all out and go glass they were thrilled. Happy to help with some mental gymnastics to justify spending money on an airplane, but I do enough of that with one, no need for half of another C model. Sometimes I wish I had kept our C though, it was a great plane. Better than the K in some ways, like short field ops, grass strips, and practical inability to load it over gross weight. I'd put a glass panel in that plane if I still had it.

https://www.thisdayinaviation.com/tag/n231lr/ crossing the country in 8hrs... -a-

Jon, good luck on your check ride! My M20J is my first plane, and I’ve owned it for more than 21 years. I had an instrument rating and 500 hours in rented Cessnas first, though. You will get mixed advice here about whether to get the instrument rating before the Mooney or the Mooney before the instrument rating. I think if you’re sure you want to buy a plane, you should buy the plane now and get your instrument training in it. Biggest issue is whether you have flown enough to know what you want or need. Buying a plane isn’t many people’s idea of fun (and I imagine selling one isn’t, either), and there are costs involved in the search (time, travel, pre-buy, transition training, first annual, etc.) that you are unlikely to recoup. Some people on here change planes as often as they change underwear. Others, like 201Mooniac and me, buy a forever plane. Your interest in Mooneys shows you have good judgment. If you can’t connect with 201Mooniac, let me know. I’d be happy to fly over from SQL and show you my 1993 J.

A good friend of mine met Alain after the flight and he told him that he was totally aware of the consequences and expected to loose his license. My dad used to own a Morane 880b like the one used for the flight through the Arc de Triomphe. Still have very warm memories of him flying me to glider summer camp. I got stick time on the way to camp and soloed after 2 weeks in a Schleicher Ka-4 Rhönlerche. The Morane has exceptional slow flying qualities.

bkool and a bag of ice will get you meaningful cooling for taxi and climb out. And by meaningful I bet like 10 degrees - its not a cold AC. If you want real AC, Kelly Aerospace will sell you one.

couple of years ago asked the MSC to install a new throttle cable. I take it for its first flight and the throttle disconnects upon touchdown. Engine revs to 2000 plus RPM. Had to use the mixture control to taxi back over a mile to the shop....turns out that the shop had it all dorked up and it was dorked up for two plus years until Phil in Avon Park FL fixed it this year with mooney parts that the MSC never thought to consider. note....not all MSC are created equal.....

It's part of the series Viral video of Mooney going for a flight without breaking anything Viral video of Mooney actually landing on the actual centerline.

Indeed, I had a MT prop installed on my M20C. Not a big deal. Call Larry Schlasinger MT rep for the US. He can assist you. My experience with the MT Prop has been great. Much quieter and smoother operation. No more RPM limitations.

I use takeoff flaps and add 5 kts in my M20J for landing with a gusty crosswind. This makes the crosswind less in relation to touchdown speed and the lesser flap deployment cuts float. If the airspeed is bouncing around, I adjust pitch and power as necessary to hold glidepath with the lowest airspeed excursion hitting my target speed. I don’t try for a full stall landing, but I want the airplane tracking straight with the nose slightly high. If it is really gusty, it may take some effort to get the plane in the proper attitude before letting it touch and this eats up runway. So, the landing distance is variable with conditions. I would agree on adding 200 - 300 feet for planning, but when you get there you have to deal with actual conditions. It’s important to preselect a go around point and not continue the landing attempt if you pass it without touching down. Also, remember that the Mooney nose wheel steering is rigidly attached to the rudder system, so keep light on the rudders and let the nose wheel center when touching down. Skip

M20C's are all nearly 50 years old and many are older than that. That means M20C's on the marked are all very different and worth wildly differing values. So many things go into the valuation of a vintage Mooney. One of the most important things in the valuation will be if it's currently airworthy, flying, and flying regularly. Make yourself a spreadsheet something like this and fill it in with every single M20C for sale in the country, over the next few weeks. It's not hard, there aren't that many. It will give you a pretty good idea of the market.

KBLI - PAKT 3:20 in my plane.

You might read the whole thread.

Plus you’ll get the roller tappets. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

You might also check to see if the drain has been replaced. I replaced a leaking MDI F391-53S with a SAF-AIR SA53S and the SAF-AIR part has a stiffer spring and drains more slowly than the original MDI drain. It’s not really slow, but it is different. Skip

Makes sense since in the Acclaim, instead of one, there are two turbos, two intercoolers and a starter adaptor plus whatever weight difference in just the engine itself. They cleaned up the aerodynamics a little from the Bravo to the Acclaim, especially the cowl, eliminating cowl flaps. The prop is more efficient and the Acclaim has 10 more hp (270 to 280 from the Bravo). Of course the STC can be added togo to 310hp, which can be used at take-off but will eat up cylinders if you keep it firewalled. @pkofmanif you are trading because of speed there won't be a lot of difference, maybe +/- 5% in real world flying. Just keep in mind that (1) the G1000 is tied to the type certificate in the Acclaim (and GX Bravos) so you won't be able to change avionics without Mooney getting together with Garmin and (2) the Bravo with a Lycoming that has oil cooled exhaust valve guides stands a much better chance of making TBO without new cylinders half way through than the Continental TSIO550.

Jon, Let me help you with some logic... This statement doesn’t make any sense. They don’t make good primary trainers... You have been approved to chase down a good Mooney... Which one... easy question... If you have the dough to get a mid body... do it. If you can only scrape up the dough for an M20E... that will work pretty well too... If you only have enough for an M20C... you get what you get... there won’t be any regret... PP thoughts only, did that help? Best regards, -a-

There is an annual thread around here of similar devices... Find the B-Kool thread and compare... the B-Kool is a real cooling device... portable and used often around here... If it is more compact than an automotive heater core.... something isn’t going to work as well as expected... If it doesn’t mention tens of thousands of BTUs... something is being hidden... If it looks like a battery powered hair dryer... with a cold button.... call it too good to be true... PP thoughts only... -a-

I just can't see a properly done cotter pin coming out. Especially in that low stress area. When was the last time that area of the plane was worked on?

Also, Bruce Jaeger was extremely helpful in getting me started on the right track and provided far more guidance than I ever could have asked for. -Lance

What? No, I only accuse arguments, not people That would be ad hominem

I wasn't sure if you pay them or they pay you to take if off of who's hands. Is it clear who is paying?

For your serial number airplane only a 60A alternator is approved. For serial numbers starting at 24-3000 or higher, then there is a 70A alternator approved for those airplanes. Usually the additional ten amps is used to drive a hot propeller or air conditioner or other loads not typically seen on the previous aircraft. If your airplane is registered in the US it would require an STC or modification paperwork to upgrade to a larger alternator. I'd add to what other folks are saying here, though, that if there is a problem it is unlikely that increasing the size of the alternator will fix the actual problem. There haven't been a lot of people talking about their experiences with larger alternators because it is very, very seldom done. Usually improving avionics and switching to LED landing lights, etc., reduces the current draw so that there is even more margin than usual with a 60A alternator. If your 60A isn't keeping up, and there isn't a large additional load (like an air conditioner) to explain the difference, then a 70A alternator would not be expected to improve the situation. You should have an ammeter on the aircraft. What is it telling you after an hour or so of flying? What is the unloaded battery voltage after shutting down after a flight?

I just turned 54 - but ours are 24, 23 and 19. And our 19 year old is off to college in the fall (was meant to be last fall...but we know what happened last year! Who wants to start freshman year in a pandemic?!). I can't believe how time has flown? How did they get so big? I wish us all less interesting times very very soon. A little interesting is great. But this much interesting. Slap hand on forehead and roll eyes.

We're all living the ancient Chinese curse: may you live in interesting times.

Here is a picture of the panel

I wouldn’t expect much difference. The Max Take-off weight on long bodies is 3368. In theory an Acclaim might have a few more pounds useful since no vacuum pumps and a lighter prop, but different engine with 2 turbos/inter coolers, so they must be pretty close.

I use what the POH says for my M20J, and if I am over 2740 lbs I use what the 2900 lb Gross Weight AFM supplement instructs: Normal X wind: 15° flaps crosswind greater than 12 kts. Above 2,740 lbs: 15° flaps crosswind less than 10 kts. 0° flaps for crosswinds greater than 10 kts. Add 10 kts to the approach speed.

Yes, that's the link for Jewell Aviation who did my overhaul. The final price was very much inline with that price list.

I understand that you are looking for an answer to your original question. But please keep an open mind to the fact that it may not be your alternator at all. For instance, I have a C model with 70 Amp alternator and with all of my avionics on (Garmin 530, 300, G5, GTX 345 transponder, an ipad charger, etc...etc...), landing light, nav lights and pitot heat on I do not come anywhere close to pulling more than the alternator can handle (usually I see about 20-25 amps being pulled on the ammeter). I cannot imagine what you must have turned on that would come close to causing an issue for a 60 amp alternator unless there is something wrong with the alternator itself (not the rating of 60 amps but something internally wrong) or something wrong elsewhere. You may end up spending money on a new alternator and your issue may continue because the problem may lie elsewhere. So just keep an open mind to the answers that you receive from these very, very knowledgeable Mooney owners.

Except maybe for some kind of exotic there are no actual oil sensors in automobiles. GM developed the concept that has been copied by many decades ago, it’s called GMOLS or GM Oil Life System. It’s pretty simple actually, you start with a number say 1000, each cold start decrements it x numbers. each hour operation at full temp x numbers, each below temp x numbers etc. etc until the number reaches something close to zero, then the change oil light comes on. Oil analysis is outstanding for determining exactly what’s going on with the oil, not so much of an engine analysis though and that’s what it’s marketed as, but if you want to know about the oil, you can’t beat analysis. ‘Anyway oil analysis is the best way to determine TAN (total acid number) and TBN or (total base number) 50 hours is nothing, we change our oil because it’s full of contaminants, not because it’s worn out, or it times out, over time the contaminants will degrade the oil I would be astonished if either is even close to being bad in 50 hours of operation, but analysis will tell you. ‘If you are even remotely concerned, shorten your oil change interval, you cannot change your oil too frequently, save the money spent on gadgets, laboratories etc and spend it on oil instead.

I tell ya, the only things I’m sure of these days is death, taxes and weeds..... not necessarily in that order ! The 50’s movie War of the Worlds scared the crap out of me!

What can I say? It arouses me.

Here is the letter @carusoam scanroy.pdf

Yes, we do. Without sending digital logs you might sell to the local guy stopping by your airport. But you won't get the value out of the plane you would from a nationwide pool of buyers. Do you have any examples of a plane stolen by someone who did so because they had digital copies of the logs? That's not a thing. Even so, an airplane up for sale with nothing but digital logs, no originals available, would raise all kinds of suspicion. And even if it did happen, that's what insurance is for. For every one good airplane for sale, there are 10 that are being misrepresented. It's a fools errand to go chasing across the country after an airplane for which you haven't already inspected the logs. In this day, it's just good business to inspect digital copies of log books before getting too involved in the purchase of any airplane. Welcome to the 21st century.

I wouldn't consider 1350 "high time". If TBO is 2000, 1350 is closer to mid-time. I'd say this is priced pretty well. It's flying more than 100 hours per year for the last five years and it's got better than average useful load.

If the description of the engine and the price are on the same page... You can consider it as being factored in... Otherwise... all pre-flown Mooneys would start with brand new prices... This will help you organize your negotiations... Cull your selections carefully this way... There is a real shortage of Mooneys on the market lately... we are starting to see the return of 2007 prices...again... Still a pretty good deal... 2007 prices are 14 years old... Best regards, -a-

I wouldn’t consider Abilene to be far west Texas, you still have another 300+ miles to go to reach El Paso! There are a several of us in Midland/Odessa that use Epic Aero for oil changes and the small things, but Don Maxwell for annuals, if you need some regional recommendations. I am not sure if the Abilene Mooney flyers are in this forum but I believe several are based at ABI also. Abilene aero has helped me on avionics work, haven’t used them for engine work however for what it’s worth.

For non turboed engines i use 50 hour, 25 on turboed engines Brian

I change every 50 hours. I average 2 oil changes between each annual (~150 hours/year) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My previous engine went 2400 hours and was running well when I replaced it with a F Reman. The oil and filter had been changed every 50 hours, so that's what I've been doing with the new engine. I use W 100, or W 100+, no synthetics. Obviously, changing the oil more often is not going to hurt the engine. Clean oil is good oil.