Leaderboard

Actually the D did not have a Johnson bar, at least not till the owners converted most of them to retractable gear.

When POTUS comes to France, he usually lands at the airport where I'm working as ATC. Vectoring AF1 is .

I'm a believer that it's just as if not more important to pre-buy the seller than pre-buy the plane. With Tom selling it I wouldn't have any reservations about buying it.

Price is way too high in my opinion. In my opinion, the plane is priced too high, even if it were in annual, and were flown recently. Non Waas is the first issue. toothpick 2 blade is the second. expect abysmal takeoff performance at gross. The sitting is bad for the plane, and I would guess is probably very bad for the weeping wing. From what I understand from other owners of TKS systems, It seems as if the system should be run every now and then, and for a plane that has been out of annual approaching 4 years, that can't be great for the TKS system. However I don't have TKS so that just happens to be speculation. For the 310hp conversion, expect about 20k give or take. You can get lucky with the engine, but it is a risk. If the engine isn't good, add another 60k for an overhaul plus R&R. A GNX375 can go in for give or take 10k, but going from a 530 to a 375 is a step backwards somewhat. Realistically you're looking at a GTN750XI and a GTX345. Add another 25ish K. And finally getting it back into annual. I bought a hangar queen that got 70 hours of flight time in 9 years. The first annual was approaching 20k. Tread lightly. There's a chance if you buy this, it's gonna come with a lot of nightmares that can realistically only be solved by a lot of money.

I'm really trying not to show my hand, but I'm so excited I can't see straight. And Tom is just really amazing. Like some next level awesome.

LHS installation in Europe Did the LHS installation during last week's annual. The work was done in parallel to an installation of a traffic awareness system which supports the multiple systems which are utilized throughout Europe as good as possible: Mode-S, Flarm (origin gliders), some ADB-B out. Unfortunately the GDL69 of my G1000 is of no use over here (well it acts as expensive Charly weight), so I had to find a good compromise. For those of you who are interested refer to this link AirAvionics AT-1. It is integrated with the G1000 maps via ARINC429 as well as audio call-outs and supports numerous tablet/smartphone applications via WIFI. For audio we utilized the ADF input (Automatic Draffic Finder, easy to remember). The LHS installation was done utilizing the small inspection panel between the LHS landing gear and the wing's root. If you don't like the quality of the cut out it's me who is to blame.. Installation and configuration of the LHS worked like a charm - no problems. For audio we utilized the DME input - to my understanding LHS is a kind of distance measurement (vertical short range, not slant range though..). Did only two landings yet, one on a first time airport for me (EDVE) with a much wider runway than I'm used to (EDKA). Was really helpful to do the round-out at the perfect height. Landings were very smooth! Regards, Matthias

Just a little color commentary (and BTW, I work around some serious electrical engineers ). I have no experience with the Avidyne products but did have start up issues with a Garmin 650. The Garmin replaced a MX-170B slide in replacement. My Garmin had a series of firmware updates in the first couple of years to do deal with open squelch issues. I also noted than the range of the Garmin was less than than both the MX-170B it replaced and even the Narco 12D+ that was in the panel. I suspect some of the range issues had to do with them jacking up the squelch starting point. I am not sure if there are manufacturing changes (ex. surface mount versus through hole components, quality of components, etc.) to the modern avionics that make them more suspect to interference issues, but it sure looked that way. I can personally acknowledge that my Garmin 650 certainly didn't like the JPI 900's remote indicator. Nor did my Vertex handheld. As for the installation of these units. Most shops will not replace the RG58 unless you specifically tell them to. RG400 is expensive and it is a pain to run new wiring. I found replacing all of my RG58 came with some benefits, the most notable was that it replaced damaged wiring! When I found the damage wire, I personally ran all new RG400 for both radios. I am not an expert on making the BNC connectors, so I let the avionics shop make them. After the new wire had their connectors added, the plane was returned to me. Guess what, I had an issue with one of the VORs not receiving at distance. Found a bad connector. When I did an SWR on the rest of them, I found one of the Com runs also had a bad connector. So, installation quality can certainly play a role, if not be the main culprit. I have learned that any avionic installation can and most likely will cause me angst. Something you think shouldn't happen when 5 digit checks are involved.

This reply sums you up perfectly.

I really like mine, and to follow up on the comment above, even I can easily go into setup mode and change the limits (I could make my CHT redline at 425 for example). Sorry for the low quality pic but this is a still shot from a video I took yesterday. I opted for the 7” MFD on the right and usually use it for the EIS. Adding the screen was cheaper than a 930 and you can use it for other things too.

Hardly cheating! You spend every minute of over TWO MONTHS with one other person inside a 172 and get back to me! Frankly, that is the aviation record to end all others. It's over 60 years old and I don't think it will ever be broken. No one alive today is that motivated (or crazy) It's been years since I saw it hanging at McCarran....anyone know if it's still there?

The market has continued to increase and rather markedly. I have been shopping for M20Es, M20Js and most recently an Ovation and in the close to 2 years I have seen Es go from 30s and 40s to 50s to 70s; J’s went from low 70s to 90s to 130s-150s and Ovations from 150 to 170s to over $200k. Of course TT, engine time, extras and overall condition affect price. There are still some deals to be had out there but there seem to be fewer and it seems like a sellers market. Best of luck. Stig

@LANCECASPER LOL! You wrote what I was thinking!

"Not liking the old wiring" must be a nice way of saying "I didn't follow the installation instructions".

If interested in a PPI I would contact Brian Kendrick. He travels and specializes in Ovations. He used to work for the Mooney factory in several capacities. He will find whatever is wrong with it. http://www.mooneysupport.com/

The coolest thing ATC ever did for me was over Palm Springs. They called 747 traffic 5 miles away and 4000 feet higher. it seemed weird that they would call out traffic that far away. I looked for the traffic and saw the space shuttle on top of a 747 flying by! I replied "Traffic in sight and thanks!" they said "I thought you would like that"

Something like that happened to me 5 or 6 years ago. Was flying a PALS (Patient Airlift Services) mission from Philadelphia to Rockland (Maine). IFR day and at 9000ft we were in and out of the clouds most of the way. It was a busy ATC day and the Bahsten controllers were talking even faster than usual. About 20nm W of Boston while NE bound I get vectored 30dg left, barely on the new heading I get a vector 60dg right....just level again and wondering what was going on and I get a call "...Compassion Flight 6PC traffic 1 o'clock, two ship 747 and an F22...." Nothing to see except ragged clouds so I reply "...negative contact in IMC..." Brief silence then "...Air Force One turn 30dg right..." The 75 yo cancer patient in the right seat and I turned towards each other with big grins....she may not have been a pilot but certainly realized the president just gave way to our lowly Mooney

Along the flight I had a Mooney cross over me, crossed the Columbia River and seen the beautiful Tri Cities valley of Washington. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This plane caught my eye out on the ramp.

There is the problem. If they are a named insured on your policy, and if their employee screws up in moving your aircraft, or you request that your aircraft be hangared because an approaching hail storm and their employee fails to do it, or their improperly maintained hangar damages your aircraft, you effectively have no recourse against them, because they would tender the claim to your own insurance carrier. You have no control over the hiring and training of their personnel and no way to protect yourself from their negligence, but you become the party responsible for it. If their conduct causes a claim, whose insurance do you think the carrier is going to want to terminate? See a lawyeror call AOPA, there needs to be an exclusion from coverage for them under your policy if damage is caused in whole or in part by their negligence, breach of contract, or other unlawful conduct. Local lawyer will know best what needs to go into the agreement, because it is a matter of local (state) law, may be different in every state. PS. They have their own insurance or they certainly better have it. They just want you to hold the bag.

I have a 1956 C172. It has a Continental O300 six cylinder engine. I’m pretty sure it would run just fine on mineral spirits.

The mooneyspace search function is terrible! Google works far better, just start with typing the following into Google search: oil adapter site:mooneyspace.com

Lifepo4 is extremely resistant to thermal runaway, but no battery is immune https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery However what’s different in any lithium chemistry and lead acid is that with Lithium once charged, you really need to discontinue charge to the battery, you can overcharge them, and that cuts into their life etc, Lead acid Ideally is charged with a three stage charger. Bulk and absorption voltage for a Lifeline AGM, which is nearly identical to our Concorde batteries is 14.3V, actually made by Concorde. Once acceptance rates reached .5% of the banks rated capacity in AH, the voltage should be dropped to float, which is 13.3 V for the Lifeline, ideally voltage is adjusted for bank temperature. But lead acid batteries are very tolerant of being fed 14V continuously regardless of the State of Charge, but Lithium isn’t. So Lead Acid can live with a simple alternator that outputs 14V all of the time, Lithium of any chemistry not so much, but a LIFE cell is more tolerant than any other I believe. We just came off of living full time on a Cruising sail boat, and the difference between camping on a boat and a luxurious lifestyle is your battery bank. Lithium is sort the holy grail for many reasons, but the technology just isn’t or wasn’t there to coddle them like is needed, for instance to disconnect the alternator from the battery bank so that you don’t overcharge the lithium is difficult to say the least, it has a tendency to cause the alternator to fail. So what’s needed in my opinion to bring Lithium on mainstream is a complete redesign of the charging system, specially for Lithium, automobiles with their ECU controlled alternators could do it without too much trouble, and they surely will eventually, I suspect they haven’t because lead acid is simply very reliable and cheap, sure they could go to a LIFE battery and lose weight and have a battery that last four or five times longer, but it’s not likely to help sell cars and isn’t cheaper, so why? Our Toyota Prius with its rather large traction battery bank, has a standard 12V automotive battery to initially boot up the cars computer and run the interior accessories etc. Why did Toyota use a regular lead acid battery for that? My guess is so that Jim Bob in his tow truck can jump start you if you run down the battery, where he can’t the big traction battery.

The 7 inch g3x is the perfect add on mfd, even for a pair of G5’s or an aspen. You get EIS capability, touch screen interface, maps, charts, remote com control, cheap adsb in (gdl 50r), etc for the same price as an aspen mfd display or a jpi 930.

Sounds like a rant... I can add it to the list... A) Gill batteries are terrible... (hey wait... did you just buy another Gill battery..? ) B ) Champion spark plugs are terrible... C) JPI customer service is terrible.... D) If you didn’t like the charges to reuse a technical AW related device... compare that to S-tec... 1) JPI is known for their customer service... we use Jeev who lives in their neighborhood... and knows the nice people at JPI... 2) Using professionals usually pays for itself when the job is done... correctly. 3) Getting a JPI primary instrument on the used market is a great idea... the negotiations take the re-programming into account...unless you knew exactly what you were buying... and got a JPI from a plane with the same exact engine... 4) Its a primary instrument, have your mechanic deliver the needed information to JPI... 5) JPI may require that you send it to them for the update... some serial numbers are better than others... 6) If you are going with Cies fuel level gauges, now would be a good time to let JPI know that too... 7) You can always sell this on CessnaSpace... and get an EI MVP.... 8) EI has really good customer service right here on MS... 9) Minimize your mistakes, so JPI can’t take advantage of your situation... 10) There is a lot to know when buying used equipment... some people are pretty good with this... ask Alan... Getting this done correctly is important for the health of that new engine... JPI needs to get paid as if they were selling a new device... kind of a cat and mouse game... PP thoughts only... Best regards, -a-

I suggested that and got jumped on for not being an approved method. I had pretty good success with pulling hail dings out of the alum Subuie

That’s where I’m headed. I started adding up all the money, down time and frustration I’ve had trying to keep a bunch of legacy avionics going the last 2-1/2 years and decided that the improved reliability and integration were worth the pain of one big swap out. Plus, I really miss having a flight director. So, I’m getting quotes on a G3X, GNS 650Xi, G5, GNC 255, GMA 342, GFC 500, and JPI 900. The only thing I’m keeping is the GTX 345 I installed a couple of years ago. Skip

Blake, it's annoying, but with municipalities there is no way around it. That said, municipalities are rarely, if ever, named in suits where an aircraft operator is negligent. Regarding @donkaye's comment above, they do want to know you have insurance and I guess this is one way to prove it. However, almost every standard policy form does not cover property damage to property you rent (the hangar). However, most carriers write back this coverage under terms such as Fire Legal Liability, Damage to Premises Rented, or Non-owned Hangar coverage. The worst offender right now is Signature Flight Support. They want to be afforded a waiver of subrogation if you lease hangar space from them and in one case I heard they require the aircraft owner to fix their hangar if they break it while moving the aircraft. Underwriters are finally pushing back on this and charging for it. You buy your insurance, Signature should buy theirs.

I’ll just add some notes to your general inquiry and hope it helps. Others on here are much smarter than I with specifics for the Ovations, and costs to operate. But, I think I can offer some good ideas for you generally. First I think you would be extremely happy in any Mooney choice. Just find one that’s easy to manage for you. So it doesn’t matter if it’s a short body, fuel injected E model all the way up to a long body turbo. It’s finding one that you can go do your work and play with and not feel stressed about mx, upgrades, repairs, etc. Wherever that level is for you. Next, I would recommend that you find some Mooney drivers and get them to take you flying in their different models. We’re everywhere! And I know most of us HATE empty front seats. So we’re begging for people to fly with us. The short body and mid body are very similar to me in the way they fly, and for the most part, the caretaking of them. The long bodies, i.e. the ovations and others are a different animal in a lot of respects. From high end avionics suites, to some mx pitfalls that can be annoying. But they are fekkin fast and amazing up high. Additionally while all Mooney’s are designed for cross country travel, I believe the short and mid bodies are much better across-the-board for time building, short flights, formation flying, tooling around, etc. - in addition to the cross country flying. And it sounds like you’re wanting to do both of those things equally, for now. But I think all of this will really start to get cohesive for you after you fly in a few. Get the feeling of the different models and see which one fits you the best, because I promise there is a Mooney model that will fit you and when you know, find one and buy it. I hope that helps a little bit. Good luck, and welcome!

Hi We have submitted two sets to two different members that are also AMO’s and they have been tested with good results. The only comment was that my rubbers were approx 2mm thinner than the originals. I have had the moldchanged to accomodate that and we are running tests on the new sets. I expect production to start within a month. best regards Gert

@201er already has 11 hours. And Jonathan Paul flew his Mooney non-stop from San Diego to Savannah, ~18 hours I think. Beat his record, either miles or hours, and I'll be impressed!

Do you really taxi that rich???

Exactly!!! Change of Subject. What kind of Fuel Burn you guys seeing Taxing 100F LOP with Phillips 100AW an Aero Led Landing Lights?

WOW!! I'm so honored to have a friend in Captain Harry Moyer.....................Harry just called letting me know................Guinness Book of Records 2021! Congratulations dear Harry!! https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/oldest-qualified-pilot

It was standard from 1962-1968. Electric gear was optional but after 68 they switched to electric. Its pretty robust. IIRC its the only certified gear system that the FAA didn't require a backup emergency extension system. The weak points are lack of proper maintenance.

Thank you for this fun information...... so glad you weren’t “tripped”up by any of this!!

Yep, at least 7.

Bring up this older thread. I got my prop balanced yesterday. It started off at 1.2! At the limit in the balancer manual for needing to do a static balance before doing a dynamic. Since my annual is not until Aug and i just got my governor back from that pesky AD I didn’t relish the idea of downing the plane for the static balance. Upon opening the spinner cone to access the backplate we noticed a balancing weight on the heavy side already. We removed that and it brought the ips to .9 then adding that same weight to the opposite side got us down to .4 and i could really feel the difference in how smooth it was getting. We then added double the amount of washers to the weight and got the ips to .07 idle and .13 at 2700 with .15 at 2400 and .09 at 2200. The manual says anything below .2 is good and at this point the angle to add more weight is shifting 45 degrees from the present location. We called it good enough for now until i get to my annual where I’ll get the prop static balanced and then re dynamic balanced to a tighter tolerance. I can definitely tell a difference and the prop balance guy said it’s the worse out of balance he has seen to correct. My take on this is that I didn’t know how smooth the engine could run until I experienced the engine running after the balance was done. I didn’t ever notice a “buzz in the rudder pedals” and the yoke vibrations were not distracting and seemed normal until they were gone after the rebalancing. Now i know what to expect from a balanced system. Now that it’s gone it’s better to know I’m not rattling my avionics and airframe unnecessarily.

I agree, but try telling that to Signature; or for that matter, Ambassador at my home drome.

I harden a lot of steel for work, so I'm a big fan of the martensitic phase change in steel.

Or how many Gs are developed when a new owner pulls it up the first time!!! :-) :-)

Welcome aboard JG! Let me send Tom a note... letting him know you are asking.... @Yooper Rocketman Best regards and standby, -a-

I have high school buddies who do that for a living- them that's still alive, that is. Of five, two are dead and one should be. The one who should be finished a pass and the morning sun glint of a nearby tower guy-wire made him think it was closer to him that it was. He pulled back into a full stall, which ended in a pancake with the chemical tank crushing his lower legs. Also continuous exposure to herbicides and pesticides doesn't seem conducive to happy retirement even if you never crash. Nothing about that job appeals to me.

It’s still there by the A/B terminal entrance. There’s a nice display with pictures and even the actual toilet seat they used on the flight. Ick.

I have a hangar at San Jose International Airport (KSJC). I have been naming the City of San Jose, California as an additional insured on my aircraft policy for the past 25 years as a requirement to lease from them. If your plane damages their hangar, they want to know that they will be compensated. There is no cost to adding them. If it goes against what you feel is right, then don't lease from them. I'm sure there are plenty of others who would.

My Father just started working again here at Colorado City, AZ (AZC) and he is doing a Mooney reseal right now on another Mooney M20 D/C that's been sitting here for a while. He will be starting again full shop. Thats about 30 miles east of you.

After the latest round of panel work my useful load is now up to 1033 pounds.

My guys loved the opti... that was one reason I wanted to be a Merc dealer when it was much easier and cheaper to go with another brand. That was a long time ago. Our service manager is in his early 50’s, his first ever and only job was Mercury. Unfortunately, they retired the opti in the US, transferred their efforts to the four stroke. Over the years, I believe they have a winner... quiet, smooth and high output. All the new technology comes at a price. like you once said... if he gives you advice, listen carefully and write as fast as you can!

Thank you all again. Thought I'd update this thread: I asked my mechanic to disable the bypass switch altogether. As expected, the airspeed safety continued to work but with no possibility of bypassing it. We placarded the switch INOP and still looking for a replacement, but with less urgency. The shop double-checked the rest of the gear-related equipment as well. My mechanic said that "someone had crossed the wires on the airspeed safety switch" and he redid them correctly per the Mooney diagram. No idea how that ended up happening, how the gear system still worked for a while with crossed wires, or if this explains my in flight failure to extend the gear which seems like it shouldn't happen due to a bypass switch failure. They couldn't tell me explicitly how the switch was miswired so I can't do that logical exercise either. In case it helps or is of interest to someone, I followed the diagram and annotated where each of the relevant wires go, here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1zgGbb877mLz4R1QMP-nNIEX-hJ_EaWlM?usp=sharing. If someone from the future visits this thread, remember this is for a 1983 J, your schematic may be different

I’m approx 30gph (slightly more) with everything forward near sea level in an O2 with 310hp. I insisted on this setting when I bought the plane and I’ve made it clear to every mechanic that it’s not to be lowered. I find that CHTs climb until I bring the RPM back to 2500 shortly after departure.

Thanks, Cody. Great information here. Gonna be getting lined up for a balance tomorrow. Between having had the prop off for a new alternator belt and crankshaft seal, new isolator mounts, and shimming the thrust line up, it’s time. Not to mention that I have a wedge of foam in my compass mount to keep it from dancing.