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I’m really struggling holding back my thoughts. I spent considerable time talking with Bonney at the Mooney gathering at Spruce Creek in January. Being really busy, I neglected to post a story and a picture, MY FRIEND that attended the gathering, took at that event (with Bonney kneeling right beside me) of the whole group. I talked with her at length and she was proud to share that she owned the RV and her husband owned the Mooney. They were an Aviation loving couple living on one of the most amazing Airparks in the world. They epitomized US! I don’t disagree many of you have the right to discuss “what could have happened”. But the community down here at Spruce, (yes, I’m here now and knew about this before the first post), is devastated. Dennis was on the Association Board. I suggest we take speculations to the cause, supposedly done to “help us learn”, to a new topic and pay our sympathies and respects to their loss on this thread. How would you like your loved ones, left behind in YOUR FATAL ACCIDENT, seeing all this speculation to the loss of their family/friends in the light of some of these posts? I simply do not agree this thread deserves these posts! Tom

Thank goodness for an instrument rating and a dependable plane. Great weekend in sunny Orlando with friends and family only to return to crappy, cold wet Georgia.

I think cruise is same, perhaps slightly better, compared to the 212 prop. My belief is the 214 is better than the 212 so I'm not sure if the MT gives the same cruise speed as that one. But getting the weight off the nose and having a very smooth engine and prop is a very good thing. Less vibration = less fatigue of airframe, instruments and people. Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

Best served with a piece of 10,000 year old glacier ice near 78 degrees S, 163 degrees E.

Speculation is one thing but when people make declarations as if they definitively know what happen is another, especially when they are indicative of pilot error.

I didn’t have any model choices that are in our demographic. I actually think this gives us all something to aspire to. Ha! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't know, I haven't seen anyone that looks like that at the fly ins...

Like a charm.

Ok, from the beginning, this is my fault as the PIC... I did the walk around. My F Just came out of annual. Lots of stuff done... Surefly, other mag IRAN, new overhauled cylinder, G5s x 2, etc. So I go pick up the airplane to do the ground engine run as called for by lycoming and then fly it to start breaking it in. My mechanic is there, releases it to me, we both go through the engine carefully after the ground engine run and then I go fly it. 2.5 hours. High power 75%+ as called for in the break in instructions. Fast. After retuning mechanic looks it over carefully again for leaks. Here comes the good part... Next time I go flying, it’s breezy and I notice both nose gear doors flapping in the breeze. They are disconnected, bolts are in the rod ends with nuts on them but not connected. Holy $&%#! They were never reconnected after the annual. So other than a scratch where it looks like the doors rubbed against the cowl flap next to it, where else should I be looking for damage? The piano hinge has some play but I think it was similar before? I plan to be with my mechanic as we jack up the airplane and swing the gear next week. Its a sick feeling in my stomach as I think I could have jammed the doors in the nose gear somehow but instead I got lucky.

Hi everyone, I received some great news yesterday. J.P. Instruments has agreed to join our efforts to raise money for the Bill Gilliland Foundation by providing a JPI 450S fuel monitor for our silent auction at our Summer Conference & Retreat June 11-14 at the Sunriver Resort, Oregon. The Aviation Consumer’s, Product of the Year. “JPI’s FS-450 is our top choice because it has all the options you need for fuel management.” -Aviation Consumer The FS-450 is the best fuel management instrument on the market today. This instrument retails for $750.00 so this is quite generous of them. https://www.jpinstruments.com/ REGISTER FOR THE SUMMER CONFERENCE & RETREAT HERE! Sunriver Resort, Sunriver, Oregon June 11-14, 2020 MOONEY CLUB SHOP GRAND OPENING! On another note: I have been getting quite a few requests for West Coast Mooney Club gear, ie: Clothing, Phone Cases, Backpacks...etc. That being the case I have created a shop where you can get some great SWAG and get a 15% discount for the next two weeks. We have something for everyone. Take a look at the examples below and go visit the shop and look around. This is a not for profit shop. I have put it in place so you can enjoy some great products and show some love for Mooney's and the West Coast Mooney Club! Enjoy! See Examples Below: Go To The Shop HERE

You are welcome. I’d love to see everyone wearing or using some club swag as much as possible. I think there are some great choices and a nice variety. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This piece is only from about 69° south 67° west off the bottom of a glacier. My wife Alicia retrieving it from the bay. Later that evening with some Laphroaig.

Again, I stand by my hesitance against speculating without evidence. In the safety world, no conclusions are made or drawn without all fact-finding complete. In the military, there is usually a lot of data to go through; flight data recorder, engine files, logged faults, controller interview, ground crew interviews, etc. For general aviation, without recorders, and many flights under VFR rules, VMC, there is far less information to gleam. For this crash, the onsite investigator will examine the position of the fuel selector, will note if there is any residue within the wreckage or in the immediate vicinity. They'll note whether the prop is still on the plane, the impact markings on the prop (whether it was turning when the plane impacted), as well as an engine inspection looking for signs of catastrophic failure. Because this plane is mostly intact and not consumed with post-crash fire, I expect this report to be complete enough for us to have a focused discussion. I still stand by my request to wait for more details & facts to come to light on this particular crash. However, I've seen two great topics that warrant in-depth discussion on this forum. 1) fuel starvation, fuel planning (IFR & VFR) and real-world techniques we have to not run out of fuel. 2) How does a Mooney respond to an in-flight departure of the propeller? Does it stay within W&B, does the lack of P-factor cause yaw as the propeller departs, actions post-departure for pilots to do, etc. I think these would be great topics to start as threads if anyone is wanting to honcho that. ------------------------ Back to the tragedy at hand, I'm focused on the loss of a Mooney couple who loved to fly. For me, the loss hits home because we have many on MS who personally know them. My heartfelt condolences go out to their family and friends.

Mostly kale, yoga, and Botox

West coast Mooniacs appear to be extremely young and fit! How does that happen? Best regards, -a-

That is a great looking Mooney pic there.... I think I should get royalties, or discounts on products sold from it..... I installed them two years ago and love them. Highly recommend them to anyone thinking about purchasing them.

Since I moved from AZ to FL, and hangar to tie down, I’ve needed a good cover. I spent some time walking the field to see who had what covers, and which ones were holding up. I ended up with the Mac/airplane-covers.com it took making a few measurements for antennas and what nots, a calculation I wasn’t 100% sure I got accurate enough. Anyway, it showed up a few weeks later and fit like a glove. It’s well built, covers all the right places, and the pockets had plenty of tolerance for my rough measurements. I think it ended up around $250. It looks like it’s going to be a great cover. I don’t have an airplane that will be winning beauty contests any time soon, but this definitely increased my curb appeal. (looking for recommendations for inexpensive, basic paint BTW)

Thank Al Mooney when you get time... such things are designed to not be critical to flight... Did you hear any odd/unexplained vibration sounds? You may want to write yourself a checklist / todo list / something to remind you of all the things that have been touched during the time off at annual... Check all the bolts on the cylinders again... First flight after annual deserves the extra precaution for everything on the ordinary pre-flight check list... tugging on things that can get loose... not just looking... airleron control rods, exhaust pipes, tail lift... The good news... you have proof that you are human. Thanks for discussing your experience... Best regards, -a-

When you're ready to go to LED, the Orion 650 is a perfect fit for that light and I have plenty of stock. https://www.gallagheraviationllc.com/whelen-aircraft-lighting.html - order them here gallagheraviationllc@gmail.com - if you have any questions. James

I strongly agree with others that think it's useful to discuss all possible causes because it broadens the scope of things we add to our own level of experience. Let's suppose it was a prop failure but thinking about fuel starvation creates another reminder to be 100% sure about fuel requirements and supply. Another possibility not discussed as to why no evidence of fuel in photos and no fire is the possibility this plane was equipped with bladders that survived the impact. I would like to know if it was because looking at the damage to the area of the wing that contains fuel and if bladders were present and held the fuel it would be clear evidence that they do add a level of protection against fire. I'm sure this will become know from the investigation. We can speculate and still be respectful to all involved in this sad situation

Received word that the PAR is finally shipping! 6 week backlog due to the remote radio. Also found out my Cardiac MRI came back > 40% EF — which means I can apply for a third class medical! Very excited about that. Now, if the rental plane would just stop having squaws, I could get my transition done... Got the intercom fixed in mine and the radio is receiving but, mike-jack is bad. Portable works though. Ah, the little things... -Don

Seems to be a lot of “chute envy” going on here. CFIT is almost always fatal. Pulling the chute within the parameters is almost always survivable. They made a split-second decision and walked away. If they’d made a split-second decisión the other way and it had gone badly it would have gone VERY badly. Sometimes when we make choices with very asymmetric consequences (wrecked plane vs, death) it pays to make the conservative choice. I’m glad two fellow aviators are alive and well and able to fly again.

I never wanted the 'chute because of the increased maintenance costs, i.e. the decennial repack. Then again, I'm not going to take off into IMC in the middle of a bunch of rocks I can't out climb either.

no more Mooney. This is my ride these days. bradb former acclaim

Here's my day job. Fun Fact, it was formerly owned by a Saudi Prince named BinLaden (not the terrorist)

Very true! But only a pilot masquerading as a passenger would be surprised by such an event. If you're a pilot, act like one and fly the airplane

Rather than contribute to the thread drift in some other threads, i thought I'd share my thoughts on CAPS. Apologies in advance if this is the wrong place for this post. Short version: I don't like the way the SR22 flies, so I don't own one. The CAPS has nothing to do with it. I have lived in a fly-in community of approx 100 homes and 65-ish based planes for 16 years. Living this way exposes me to a lot of pilots in a closer way than just hanging out at the airport, so maybe my perspective is a little different. When 100LL went exponential in price (2007-8) and before the economy went pear-shaped late 2008, there were some 5+ Barons based on the field. IIRC, 100LL was as high as $8 / gallon, and feeding a Baron $240/hour in fuel alone just didn't work for most of these owners. One bought a turbine, and the others bought SR2x's. In discussing this poor choice (I sold Diamonds, after all :-) ) they each said simply - after flying a twin, I don't want a single w/o the parachute. It's an emotional, snake-brain thing that probably drove the decision to buy the twin in the first place. I don't believe it's either right or wrong - it's just how they chose their aircraft. LIkewise, after having datalink and de-ice, I wouldn't want to be without... stepping down in capability is difficult. I'm a glider pilot, too. Do I feel invincible in the event of an engine out in my Mooney? Of course not. But on a good VFR day, I think the likelihood of getting hurt or dead after an engine failure is pretty low. IMC raises the risk level, of course, but I train for that, too. During my last PPP, I did much simulated engine-out work with Parvez, including the ILS. It can be done - just manage the energy state of your plane carefully (which includes flying as high as practical). If you haven't read @Buster1's book on engine out survival tactics, I highly recommend it. Widespread IMC and night also raise the risk level, but I'm confident that if I execute a forced landing wings-level and under control, my PAX and I will survive. I fly in the Midwest, where most of the world is an emergency landing field. If I flew over wilderness/mountains/water frequently, I might feel differently. What injures and kills more pilots than anything else is something the pilot does wrong. the Nall report tallies something like 75% of mishaps as pilot-caused. 73/76% non-fatal / fatal. Mechanical causes are 18% / 10%. Focus on the stuff that *does* hurt and kill pilots - stay current, brief your flights carefully, and take the whole ADM thing seriously. So... regarding CAPS: Just how frequently is it a factor? I cringe at the mention of "CAPS Saves" as though the helpless aviator would be dead but for the CAPS. However, I rejoice in a life saved that was otherwise at risk. Now, consider some numbers: Approximate GA fatal mishap rate: 0.54 / 1000 hours. Cirrus' rate is broadly similar to the GA fleet. Approximate GA mishap rate: 3.45 / 1000 hours. The Cirrus fleet has approx 12 Million (my extrapolation from a 2 year old number) hours on it. The Chute has been pulled 114 times, IIRC Dividing it out, the CAPS pull rate is .01 / 1000 hours, which means the GA fatal mishap rate is more than 5x the CAPS pull rate CAPS just doesn't get pulled very often - even as compared to rare fatal mishaps and much more so as compared to all mishaps. The Cirrus community has done an excellent job of instilling a culture of safety among new and used owners. This emphasis on training has brought the fatal rate for SR2x aircraft in line with its peers. But the CAPS seems to have little to do with overall safety-of-flight outcomes. Pilots of Cirrus and other brands continue to be injured or killed by things they did, CAPS or no CAPS. I conclude that the CAPS has a very small impact on reducing fatal mishaps. By training and making sure that my decisions and actions are not a link in a chain of events leading up to a mishap, I can have a much more meaningful influence on the safety of flight. If BRS were available for the Mooney, I'd consider it, but I wouldn't put a very high value on its likelihood to keep me unhurt or un-dead. -dan

The Bonanza list deals with the issue of accidents and discussion of possible scenarios in a very effective way. I follow both this list and the Bo list since there is valuable learning even with discussing possible scenarios. They try not to conclude or place blame on anybody but if people are bothered by the discussion of accident scenarios they are reminded that there is no requirements that they follow the discussions. Even months later the FAA or NTSB often are not able to define an exact cause and their conclusions are often speculative too.

I replaced a C212 (OEM 77 J prop) with an MT late in 2010 and would do it again. 12 lbs lighter than that McCauley, which I believe is lighter than the 214 or Top Prop. It is very smooth (0.01 IPS) and has no RPM restrictions. 1" more ground clearance too. Getting weight off the nose of a J is a good thing. I would make the same decision today. Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

My IA said he spoke with the technicians at Continental. He was told that there are diaphrams in the engine that can slowly slip out of its "adjustment" over time. The SB that is mentioned earlier is actually part of the official maintenance manual now and must be checked every annual. I don't know the exact wording of it. I'll talk to him either tomorrow or Monday and post an more detailed update in here when I do.

When my old coffee grinder died I put in a new strobe that produced a whine just as Anthony described above. I put this in the avionics bay in back and ran the power line going to the strobe through it, got rid of the noise. https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/lsStrobeNoiseEl.php?clickkey=35795

My first thought would be to lube the lock, pin and handle slide with 100% silicone spray. Go the easiest route first. O chem? P chem? microbio? No way! Just give me a good ol' CATIII into ATL in a 727-200 I was in heaven then! (Yes, CAT III in a 727).

The gear door system is very simple, but complex at the same tome. If you do not see any damage to the doors then you did not damage the gear. By design the doors, connected or not will not interfere with landing gear operations unless the pilots side door is adjusted/ is too far in and the gear catches it when retracting. It this point you will damage the door but not the gear. If you have a Jonhson bat you would feel the binding. The electric gear would probably pop the breaker due to the load on the motor. Since your doors appear undamaged the air load probably spread them open during take off and kept them that way for the flight. Brian

Let’s get clear what option we are talking about. GPS’s may query whether you want to fly the procedure turn (“course reversal”) or not. But that does not mean it is an option for you if you are on a clearance, allowing you to just pick one or the other to fly. In this instance, one TAA does not state “NoPT” and one does. If you approach in the TAA that says nothing, then ATC expects you to fly the procedure turn unless instructed otherwise. If you approach in the TAA that says NoPT, then you are expected not to fly the procedure turn. Complicating this, is local practice by the controllers and the fact that not all controllers know that this is the rule. It is best, when flying an RNAV, to tell the controller what you intend to do, and this generally requires a little judgment. If you are in the NoPT TAA, then I would not hesitate to fly the approach with NoPT without telling that to the controller. But if you are in the TAA that says nothing, it is always a good idea to announce. Where they get irritated with you, is if they have another aircraft coming in on an IFR plan, they (the controller) for whatever reason were spaced out on the fact that you are required to fly the turn, and then you do, which means they have to do something with the other aircraft. I have not seen an approach that says “PT NA,” the reference is usually that the Procedure is NA for arrivals at a particular IAF from a specified course or direction. Whether the GPS gives you the procedure turn as an option or not, has no bearing on your obligation to follow what is on the plate. Controllers make mistakes, but so do we, they pick us up and we pick them up. Cover both of your tails and let them know what you intend.

Shoot me an email and tell me what length you need. We are the largest seller of Aspen in the Western States and will take care of you. gbaker@bakeravionics.com

We have sent 13 back there and have had them all back within 5-7 business days easily! At one point, we sent 9 of those at one time and had them back in that time frame. Don't be fooled!!!!

Thank you Oz for your concern. I am replying here for everyone instead of to the PM and I think you have the right idea to make this bit public. So trying to understand what happened and what you are saying. It is the actual key switch device that is the issue? Did you change it to a different unit from a different company. If yes, what is the replacement. Do you have a picture please? Otherwise can you say what the inspection consists of? In fact my airplane is in the shop this week getting its mags done on schedule. Actually I am having one make IRAN inspection for its 500hr and the other mag I am having replaced with the surefly electronic mag as the turbo mooneys were just added into their STC list a few weeks ago and the timing is perfect for me! I am looking forward to trying that out! But back to this discussion - since it is in the shop I would appreciate more info what is involved in either replacing the Medco key or otherwise what its inspection consists of. So this is not an FAA-SB but let us consider it advise from fellow pilots as a AFP-SB. I am one to learn from the experience of others and I will comply with this AFP-SB if I can understand further what to do. E

Hello everyone. I just sent Erik a PM about his start ignition that I notice is the original OEM type. I wasn't going to post publicly as this is not really the correct forum to discuss this issue but after further consideration, I thought I would anyway given its importance and is something I was not aware of before it happened to me. I am sharing the PM for the benefit of those who may not be aware of a problem associated with the original type. I have previously mentioned this in at least one thread some time ago, so for MSers who may not have been around or remember and still have the original, I hope this post benefits you. Years ago, Mooney moved away from the original and installed into their production models the new type that uses the Medeco key. Needless to say, I also had the new type fitted post accident, as did many other Mooney owners in Australia as a result of what happened to me. I don't remember the upgrade as being overly expensive at that time. Please don't ask me how this could suddenly stop an engine as I cannot remember in technical terms plus I am electrically illiterate. There was no ATSB investigation, however my mechanic and some highly regarded electrical engineers did their own investigation and arrived at the conclusion the old ignition was the most likely cause. The New Zealand authority must have been onto something. Mods - Please feel free to move this to another forum if desired. The PM - Hello Erik. I notice in your beautiful photo in the Today's flight in the year 2020 thread that your Mooney has the old style ignition and key. The reason I brought this up with you is 12 years ago my J suffered a sudden engine failure and although the investigation was inconclusive, the smoking gun culprit was thought to be this type of ignition, which was the original OEM fitted system such as yours. No other fault was found. I and a lot of other Mooney owners here in Australia had the latest ignition system fitted, which includes the Medeco key that you may have noticed some forum threads and discussed occasionally. Mooney changed to the new style some years before my issue and therefore all new Mooneys have that type. In my case there was evidence of much carbon built up through arcing behind the ignition switch. It is interesting that neither Mooney or the FAA have mandated any type of inspection or replacement of the ignition switch whereas the New Zealand and another country's authority (I can't remember the country) have a 500 hour inspection mandate. Australia's CASA could not care less. It might be worthwhile talking to your aircraft mechanic about this. Victor

Here is why I disagree with this, and feel free to rip into me if you disagree: by waiting for what actually caused this accident whether it is fuel starvation, medical or a prop falling off, we will only think about that one cause, and one or two solutions. On the other hand, monday morning quarterbacking these accidents, it forces us to think about the different scenarios, however unlikely, that cause various kinds of accidents. I have never considered my prop falling off the airplane on approach before. Probably due to the low likelihood of this ever happening. It is not something I will ever worry about, but it is beneficial to think about, and to theorize what I should do in this event. Just my .02

I will be at the Angel Flight West booth from 1000 to 1100 on Saturday.

I will try the ground to battery. The power wire is shielded. My "Beacon" is actually a Whelen strobe, older unit. Sometimes I seem to forget that computer communication requires better specificity than what I produced in my first post. Thanks

Weather pending I’ll be there. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He’s still the PIC: Pilot in cargo.

While not installed in a Mooney, here is a really good video of the Skyview HDX in flight. Just to throw this out there if anyone from Dynon is listening, some sort of a simulator that you can access from a computer or IPad would be wonderful. https://youtu.be/Ea4HDOd2z1U

I think the only 3 blade I'd try on the 4 cylinder engines is the MT.

Expect some sunshine around the corner... China has been a rough place to operate from for the last year or two... Best regards, -a-

The ads are selected special for the user... based on the other things they have searched for... I was getting all these cool turbine adds, jet services, and tropical paradises....places to keep my turbine Mooney... (just kidding) See if @mooniac58 has an answer for the PayPal-less crowd... Zelle seems to be becoming more popular for this kind of transaction...? The only time I use PayPal is for MS... Best regards, -a-

Pchem was my favorite class. The professor handed back the first tests in grade order. First test he handed out came with a line like "if you keep this up you'll never pass my class" I worked extra hard for that A. Chemical engineering is challenging. That class is the hardest. You knew where you fit in when you were done. Grades always got fit to a curve. A dozen kids in the class, two or three were going to get an A. The most important and most useable aspect of Pchem was how to handle related rates mathematically. we could use math to prove that the Mooney is the better traveler. Or we could use impirical data to do the same... Best regards, -a-

But these things apply to any airplane. In any airplane, it's important to stay ahead of the airplane, be an active participant, fly the plane, don't just ride along, etc, etc, etc. Mooney's certainly require more attention than a C172 or a Cherokee, but no more so than say a Bonanza, Cirrus, or Columbia. I've taken off in my Mooney completely out of trim, I've landed at 90kts, I've gone around with full up trim, gear out, flaps down, it's a non-event. Granted, I have no Long body experience, but in my short body C and the mid-body K, it was the same. Pay attention and fly the airplane... works in the Mooney just like every other piston single I've flown.