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So to add a little closure to this thread, I called the tower supervisor yesterday and explained how I screwed up Saturday night by not understanding the big picture and how I bitched at the controller for 1)trying to help me out by squeezing me in and 2) keeping me safe when that didn't work out as planned. The controller happened to be working when I called, so he had me talk directly with him. The controller was still apologizing for putting me in a bad situation and insisted that I didn't need to do anything to make amends when I offered pizza or cookies and wouldn't even tell me when he was working so I would know when to send the goodies. So I asked to speak with the tower supervisor one more time and he provided the schedule info I needed. Pizza will be delivered Saturday night! I'm glad I shared this experience as I have learned a lot from this thread. I hope others have learned a lot too. If you thought the same way I did about my situation, please go back and read @GeeBee's explanation of why the little guy gets sent around. It makes perfect sense once you understand the performance capabilities and limitations of both aircraft. Unfortunately, I now feel a bit like a little kid who was pissed at mom for making me get a shot at the doctors office... who now just got a cram course in immunology.

Just brought my baby back home. Here’s a few pics.

So I called around to a few shops for quotes on my eddy current inspection. First the bad, Yingling quoted me $450 - $550 depending on what they found once the got started. WTF, this is less than an hour job... I guess they just didn't want to do it. And the good, I called Redline Aviation in Akron, CO. He quoted me $150, but said they were backed up for 3 weeks. When I told him I would by flying through the area to attend a funeral, he told me they could squeeze me in since I lived far away. Just asked that I call and remind him the day before. OK, that's more like it. When I showed up Mark, the technician, got started on it right away. I asked if I could help in any way and he said "Sure, come on out." I didn't do anything to help and got in the way more than anything, but he was happy to answer my questions. He explained that I would need an overhaul soon and thoroughly explained why. When I asked about Aeroshell #5 vs #6, he showed me what the difference looked like between the two when they leak out on the inside of my spinner. He also made a point of showing/instructing me on how to properly put the spinner on so I wouldn't damage it or the prop. Less than an hour later, it was time to go see Dan, the owner and settle up the bill. He said "Since you helped, I'll only charge you an hour of labor." That's pretty generous using the term "help" since I mostly just stood in the cold and got in the way! I also asked him for a quote for the overhaul and was impressed with the number he gave me. He then took the time to go through how to package and ship the prop so that it would arrive undamaged. I know @Cody Stallings in Arkansas has a great reputation around here (if I had been going that way, I would have stopped there without hesitation), but if you find yourself in Colorado and need prop work done, Redline Aviation seemed to be a top notch outfit.

Thanks everyone. I think I got it worked out with a PDK flight instructor Mooney pilot and another PDK Mooney pilot who enjoys doing friday lunch with the Cole gang. I’ve been flying Mooneys since 1986, and I truly feel like we Mooney pilots are just one big family. Thanks to all that reached out, wishing all a merry Christmas and a happy new year.

Looks great! Just needs some dead bugs on the windshield

Yes, that's the original reason why I wanted to look into the MT Prop in the first place. I have flown in a more modern Ovation and the difference with just the better sound insulation and top prop was extremely noticeable. Since the top prop isn't available for the Bravo, the MT would be the next best thing (and possibly better except for the durability concerns). Since I like to do 5+ hr trips having a smooth ride will make all the difference in the world for how I feel for 24 hours after I land.

My avionics shop briefly tried to talk me out of flush mounting my instruments as well. Especially since I installed one of the first G5's and there wasn't even a flush mount kit available. And while the G5 flush mount has mounting screws on all sides, there really isn't any reason to use all of them. We used a JPI flush mount kit and mounted it using three sides. It worked fine and saved on some of the space required.

This is one of the reasons I like to occasionally run a tank dry at altitude in cruise. I experience the effect of fuel starvation and get the experience of switching tanks and the restart of the engine. I'm hoping that if I had an unexpected fuel starvation situation at low altitude, the response will be instinctive and quick. I'm not suggesting everyone should do this, but just something I do and feel good about.

@bob865 I just went through almost the same experience with my 65 M20E. I bought it 9 yrs ago with a 1200 SNEW engine from the 70s and thought it was the weak point of the airplane. Along the years, I put some money in the panel, some more AMUs in upgrades in the electric system and some more in the suspension. Last annual, at around 1600 SNEW on the engine, I got lots of metal in the oil and had to decide to open the case and change the camshaft and lifters or go for the full overhaul. My final decision to overhaul was based, first on economic and second on personal preference. Economically , with the engine situation, and altough I had updated a few items, as it sat, the Mooney was worth under $40k, maybe around $35K. Since I didn't want to stop flying and that amount would not buy me a trouble-free airplane, that part of the decision was an easy one. Second, I love the Super 21 for what it is, a fast, reliable and fuel efficient 2+2 passenger airplane. I flight plan at 145kts and get under 10gph, flying mostly LOP. While the engine was being overhauled, we found some corrosion in the wing, which added some more money to the equation, so the investment came up to around $55K. I would suggest a thourough corrosion inspection before dropping another $70k into that airframe. But as other have said, if you're planning on keeping that Mooney for some time, put the money in it, but if you're thinking of going for a faster, bigger or high altitude capable airplane, then put it on the market for you won't be able to recuperate more than 50% of your investment. Good luck with whatever decision you take!

Don't tell my plane I said this, but your E with some speed mods would probably keep up fairly well with my J. We both have the IO-360, but I think I am a bit heavier. I flight plan for 150 kts., regularly fly LOP, and typically am within 2-3 kts. of planned airspeed over a 3 hour flight. I have run it ROP and pushed over 160 kts., but for that extra 10 kts. it drank a lot of 100 LL. If you can get the avionics you want in your plane and the newer engine, you will have something you have known for as long as you have had it but now with the equipage to get several more years out of it. I count myself to be one of the luckier owners who was able to get a plane with excellent maintenance over its life before me, so I have had no large unexpected expenses over the ~7 years I have owned it. And while I have put $$$ into the avionics and now the interior, it has been by choice and not necessity.

Sure, it’s well known that the #6 will leak by the seals. Most times that can be fixed by switching back to #5. However on the inside of my spinner there was both a thin smeared oil like substance, #6, and a thicker grease buildup. Once the prop starts leaking #5, it’s time for a reseal. That alone doesn’t mean you need an overhaul though. The leading edge of my prop also showed white oxidation which he said work hardens as the prop flexes. That can develop a crack that can propagate. During the overhaul, they grind off this oxidation and repaint so you have malleable metal at the surface. At least that’s the way I understood it. Perhaps one of our more mechanically inclined members can explain it better or confirm this.

I hope you “win the day”, hands down you get my vote. Congratulations!!

It was great to meet Brad and show of the F! He fits very well in the seat and won't be disappointed if he chooses to pursue a Mooney!

If you want to keep the plane, consider shipping the engine to Jewell. We have a lot of positive MS feedback from them and they took great care of me.

On Thursday at 1030 am I loaded up the ski equipment and flew about 180 miles to mount poconos...picked up an Uber ride to camelback mountain resort...purchased a season pass for over 65, and skied non stop for 2 1/2 hours and caught an Uber back to the airport so I could fly back during twilight....”flew my Lear jet to Nova Scotia..to photograph a total eclipse of the sun” mooney freedom!

Anybody out there have aviation related decorations? Here’s mine. Happy Holidays!

your panel is going to look really nice once you get that second aspen unit installed.

they have to ride in the back

I think that the fact that I have run a tank dry dozens of times in flight over the years has given me muscle memory. If my engine quits in flight switch tanks, boost pump are first on the list .

Niiiiiiiice @Marauder. One question tho- is that passenger seat big enough???

I looked at a few shops and sheepskin is expensive no matter where you buy it. I used: https://www.aerosheep.com/ Pimping it out...

@hnorber You might give Bob Bramble a call. Several folks on here, myself included, have had him rebuild their AI. Robert Bramble Aerolab Aviation Services www.aerolabaviation.com FAA CRS#40RR239Y 8191 N Tamiami Trail Hanger B-2 Sarasota, FL 34243 Ph: (913) 680-4169

The OP (DXB)... The only problem I see so far: When switching from right (conventional mag) to left (Surefly) during a mag check, there is a slight but perceptible lag between turning the ignition key and the Surefly generating spark. This lag did not create an issue during standard ground runup. However, it caused a definite backfire during a subsequent in-flight mag check at the cruise power settings noted above with the engine maximally leaned out. I suspect this issue will preclude me from doing in flight mag checks, or at least force me to do them at lower power to avoid beating up my exhaust. When going from the R mag to the L mag inflight, would it prevent the 'sleeping' e-mag backfire if you went from R to BOTH and then back to L? My IA told me one of the locals put a Surefly in his Archer and is getting the backfire during mag checks on the ground. I'm not sure of his mag check sequence, though. I do know this, if I tell the comptroller I need 3 or 4 amu for a new PF exhaust because my new Surefly backfired and put a hole in my muffler... hmmm... maybe there's a evil plan here... tom

@Browncbr1 you hit the nail on the head. I was hoping to get another 1000 hrs from it. I wanted to be the fabled 2x tbo guys, but there was so much that just didn't feel right. I can't put my finger exactly on it, but I had the feeling some extensive engine work if not a full overhaul was soon. Just not this soon. I wanted 1-2 more years. @larryb and @carusoam. I was weighing my options. As with anything, when you're looking you dins all kinds of 'neat' stuff. I was struggling to seperate Wants and Needs. When I get down to it, I have never flown at turbo altitude and have no desire to. On the east coast our highest peak is only 6k ft. I can easily handle that in my E. Plus the added expense of oxygen systems doesn't fit my flight profile. Maybe a J? The extra speed would be nice, but is buying a whole airplane worth 20-30 mph? Nice or Need? In the end, my E fits my mission, it just needs avionics. For a similar cost I could get a well equipped J, but all the equipment would still be 20-ish yrs old or older. If I upgrade, it's all brand new. So the decision became devil you know with brand new electronics and 30mph slower or devil you don't with old avionics and 30mph faster.

@EricJ - a pirep request for when you get to use the flexible vividia, please. I have the fixed one and it works great once you figure out how to use it - if you can get it to what you want to look at.

Yep. I have a reasonably laid out 6 pack which is currently being converted to 2xG5s. The avionics shop did all the measurements and said the flush mount brackets would not fit between the existing instruments on either side. My panel is one piece all the way across. No way I’m redoing the entire thing just to flush mount!

We know who that guy is Job looks wonderful, as does the white gear. Congrats...

Awesome!! Have fun each time you open your hangar door !!

I he meant that as HE aged, he is less tolerant of vibration and noise and needs more frequent breaks. Not that the prop vibrated more with age... The MT is the smoothest prop available for us as far as I know. Wood and composite materials and inherently better at damping vibration than any metal. I know my 4-banger feels like a sewing machine with my MT and careful attention during overhaul to balance and flow-match everything. If I had a 6 cylinder I bet it would be as smooth as a turbine. Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

So, the FAA makes the manufacturers of certified engine monitors hide the redline limits from the user, but the manufacturers of NexGen ATC transponders don't have to do the same for HEX codes or use encryption. Anyone with a Garmin gps must use proprietary software to set it up. Why would ADS-B out transponders need to be any different? This is really maddening. It hints that the entire ADS-B system has a fundamental flaw and will require a complete redesign or remain vulnerable. Yippee! Our units don't support encryption! So we all get to suffer a new costly ADS-B related mandate! I'll probably miss the free government money on that one too...

That is part of the reason about 1/2 the people on the slopes at breck are Texans. We have to go for a week to make it worth while.

How hot do you think you could get the oil without combustion of any sort? Hypothetically imagine you had an external drive turning a non running aero engine. All other things being equal, do you think the oil would reach normal operating temperature off friction alone? It’s cold in my neck of the woods these days but it’s my guess that if I climb to 10,000 feet and pull the mixture and the mags there would be nothing that I could do in a power off discent to cause oil temps to increase.

Thanks for the suggestion but I have only a normal laptop for my entertainment (I'm retired already) with only simple programs coming with W10... And the ideas I write down here come into my mind as I read other people's comments, here... If I still had my big scale r/c sailplanes, I might then make experiences... but now I have only one way to go: follow my logic and make you my judges... Regards, Carlos

Beyond what is described above, ATC routinely transcribes my N number when I call them. 25U often becomes 52U. On some occasions I have corrected it numerous times with numerous handoffs and it seems to not actually get corrected in the system. On some of those occasions, pre and post ADS-B, I can’t track my flight. I should look under the transcribed number. Would not be surprised if they are seeing New England flights they never did.

I suspect the accident data doesn't support it. one of the more common causes of crashes overall is fuel exhaustion for starters. And the most common phases of flight to see crashes and fatal crashes are landings and takeoffs respectively, so they're not exactly times you'd be planning on dumping fuel...

The problem with flush mounting, is it requires a little more room, so if tight on space.... Tom

I look at some of these before pictures and think, man, I'd love to have a paint job that nice. Of course looking at the after pictures, I just think "WOW!" @Joe Larussa The only thing you missed was updating your avatar!

I suppose most of the times I’ve had the keep speed up instruction I’m landing on a 8 or 10,000’ runway with an airliner sequenced behind me. If I come down the glide slope at ~130 kias to 200’ and chop power and level out there’s plenty of runway to slow to gear speed and touch down before midfield, no flaps. In all likelihood the tower will have what they need and allow me to slow sooner. What they don’t need is someone setting up a nice stabilized gear down and full flaps 4 mile final flown at 75 kias with a line of 737s behind him doing twice that speed. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

In the decathlon the procedure was to go full power through the top of the loop. At the top, near stall at full power bring power back to idle and pull the nose through nose down. Once above the horizon go back to pull power as the plane slows again near the top of the loop. Wash, rinse, repeat until air sick. Ask me again if shock cooling is a thing. -Robert

This group can be very useful for the 480: https://groups.io/g/gns480-users

Sorry, but I am wondering why there is even on thread on this. “I shoulda been first.” Controllers make mistakes. Pilots make mistakes. Controllers help us stay out of trouble. We help them stay out of trouble. They are not our enemies, we are not theirs, and if the day comes when you have to declare a real emergency and get their help, you will be glad of it. Flying is not an ego contest. Most of the Mooney pilots I know are pros, its not a big deal for them to do a go around 10 feet off the runway. This isn’t worth a discussion.

You know guys, when I was messing around behind the actuator the red line on the back of the boot seemed really loose. Now that I am looking at the drawings showing how it all goes together I am thinking that might be the leak. I’m buried in Getting ready for three daughters, three son in laws and nine Grandkids coming for Christmas. If I can get a break from that I’m going back to the hangar and try to get my hand further behind there. My hands are too big to fit in there. I may have to take a grandkid to the hangar.

A little more background details that will answer a few questions that have come up. Conditions were night VFR. There was a solid overcast, but it was at 10,000 with excellent visibility below. I was flying solo with low fuel, so I was very light. My fuel was low enough that it was on my mind, but not low enough I was worried about it. I knew I had about 8 gallons on board for the first landing attempt. This is a really busy airport M-F 8:00-5:00 with very little traffic evenings and weekends. Being late on a Saturday night, no other planes came in during the 1/2 hour before I left the airport. I thought about saying unable and landing anyway. My struggle with this is that a go around is a normal procedure that any pilot should be able to execute, yet it obviously adds additional risk as evidenced by multiple accident reports. My mind immediately flashed back to the ASI Accident Case Study of the Cirrus at Houston Hobby. She had the same beginning to the chain of events that led to her going around 2 more times and eventually stalling and spinning into a parking lot. Her primary failure was retracting her flaps with inadequate airspeed, so I was ultra focused on keeping my speed up throughout the go around and making a good second approach. I do know the tower supervisor, so I may call him tomorrow and discuss the situation, apologize for loosing my cool, find out when the controller works next, and arrange to send him a pizza.

One time I was with ATL approach. They switched me to the south side runways even though I was north of the airport. I was crossing north complex traffic on the down wind with this maneuver. The controller was talking a mile a minute and I could see a traffic conflict developing. We were T-bone with an MD-88 on downwind, same altitude. We tried to get a word in edgewise but could not. We were IMC, I could not make a move until TCAS barked. I disconnected the autopilot ready for the coming melee`. Just as the TCAS barked "Descend!" the controller gave me a 180 "immediately". If the airplane had not been off autopilot and I was primed, we would have been very close or possible collision. After a I landed ground control asked me to call the tower. I did, and the first thing I said to the supervisor is...."How is your guy, is he OK?." Now I knew he had just became disqualified from his position by this loss of separation. He nearly ran metal together. Turns out, I knew him, he went to my church. Good guy, overloaded The point is this. We all operate in the same airspace, we just have different jobs. Just as you live in the same house with your spouse. Everyone is going to make mistakes. Sometimes bad ones. You have a certificate, he has a certificate. Ripping into each other is not the way to go. Someday you are going to screw up and you will need some understanding. If you have a reputation for understanding, you will likely be understood, when the time comes. It is likely this was a "loss of separation" incident and not good for the controller. A wise Captain once told me, "Never get mad or curse in a disagreement you know you will win and never fail to bank a favor." Opportunity missed.

If it were me I would probably apologize to the controller and buy him pizza next week. He knows he screwed up. Didn’t need the phone call from you to let him know that. You do more for your long term relationship acting like a professional than you do rubbing his nose in it. Being a controller is a hard job and most of them do an amazing job most of the time. They’re human just like we are (although technically Spock is half-human). What if the situation were reversed? If he had you call him to chew you out and tell you how badly you screwed up (when you already know you did) how would this affect your relationship in the future. What if he told you where the error was, how it happened, and how you could both work together to prevent it in the future? Would you have a different opinion? Situational awareness is your responsibility as well as the controllers. It not uncommon for me to say “is the separation adequate or would you like me to do something different” when I am concerned about what the controller is doing. They have always been receptive to it and I think it has avoided some uncomfortable and potentially dangerous situations. If this is somewhere you fly regularly, I would seriously consider making a peace offering. You may be surprised how controllers can bend over backwards to make your life easier.

I don’t think the tower has any obligation to call you. I’m pretty sure under such circumstances it’s customary to ask tower their phone number rather than demand they call yours.

Did the same thing on the 9th. San Diego to Mammoth mountain. I call it my 5 to 5’s, leave the house at 5am and back in the house at 5pm. Nothing better than weekday skiing!

I agree, mostly with your assessment, with one exception. Initially, Dr.Chen made a huge attempt to reach out to us current Mooney owners. This is from my personal experience. At the 2014 Kerrville MAPA convention, and at AirVenture 2014, during his public and press conference presentations to all attendees, he personally thanked us Mooney owners for helping keep the Mooney brand out in the world during the hibernation period between 2009 and 2014. We, the Mooney Ambassadors, the Mooney Caravan, etc ( forgive me anyone I’ve forgotten to mention in this list) were specifically the entities he acknowledged as being most grateful to. Jerry embraced, and provided public acknowledgment and financial support of the Mooney Caravan and the Mooney Ambassadors, in various forms throughout his tenure. He welcomed us, Mooney Ambassadors, to display within the Osh 2014 Mooney tent, allowing us to help promote and talk about the brand to potential customers....... he did the same with MAPA and Maxwell’s in the tent. The first 2014 Mooney auctioned off at 2014 AirVenture..... all proceeds were earmarked to fund the Mooney Museum/Learning Center project on the factory grounds, which he proposed and supported. Again, Dr. Chen welcomed us into his Chino, CA, Planes of Fame Airshow tent/display with the same intent as Osh 2014. Also requesting my Ovation and one other Mooney to be on display at the tent. Dr. Chen listened to us Mooney owners suggestions/input/comments with regards to adding a pilot door on the M20. Jerry even directed, in homage to the backwards tail, and the legacy of the J model, to implant the tail on the M10 and for the M10 to carry the J designation. His attempt to acknowledge and support the Mooney base was quite clear. These were very, very exciting times with the re-birth of Mooney!!! Yes, we can all look back and armchair what went wrong. That’s another subject. However, I can only believe, based on Jerry Chen’s initial efforts on behalf of all us Mooney owners, his efforts and acknowledgment, and support of us would have continued in various forms.

Insert a piece of thin safety wire into the hole together with the screw and tighten. After tightening trim the excess wire. I found this to work very well.

Ok, let me jump in here :-) I happen to have both an Aspen PFD and a G5 in my panel. Granted, I have the Aspen PFD Pro which is the full IFR version. I also have the EA100 that allows it to talk to my KFC150 autopilot. The G5 is there to look pretty and help me get down if the Aspen takes a day off. But with about 400 hours of flight time, looking at them side by side, there's no question for me, the Aspen is just a lot more instrument than the G5. Even if you compare two G5's to a single Aspen, I still like the Aspen more. A few of the things I like about the Aspen: Displaying multiple nav sources on the HSI simultaneously. I don't need a VOR head or CDI for my second Nav. I can display GPS course and TWO VOR needles all on the single HSI display. Frankly it makes using the second NAV even easier and keeps the panel clutter to a minimum, and saves the cost of the CDI. True Airspeed - It's probably not all that important, but it's nice to see TAS along with GS and IAS all at the same time and all the time. Wind speed and direction - again, just a nice to have, but I've used it many times to make altitude decisions while in route, for better wind. It's also a nice check when on final for the runway. Route depiction on the HSI - it's super nice to see a hold displayed right on the HSI. Again, only for IFR flight, but just making things easier. A separate Minimums bug on the AI. Not only can you set an altitude bug on the tape, but set the Minimums for an approach that shows up as a color changing wedge on the AI. Again, making IFR flight just that much easier. Distance/Time/Course to the next waypoint - often on the GPS, but nice to have on the Aspen right in my line of vision. The Aspen is also just so upgradeable. Start with the E5 now, then next year upgrade to the Pro, then after that think about upgrading to the AOA or SV down the road. And it will drive your STEC autopilot today and anything else you put in tomorrow. Frankly I'd keep your Stec until you are ready to upgrade to the Stec3100. I find that I only use the G5 as a second altitude or heading bug. Of course it doesn't drive my autopilot, but it just doesn't have the features of the Aspen, so I just don't use it. And that's my $0.02