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I’ll be selling my C model next year and I wanted a replacement for it before selling it. My replacement is now in the hangar!

Nick - the Mooney Summit is open to all Mooney owners, soon to be Mooney owners and all aspiring Mooney people. If you have not bought a Mooney by the time the Summit begins in October, you will certainly want to buy one shortly after.

Update - Mooney is all put back together and flying. This set up has been amazing and very easy to use. Finding something new it does every time I fly!

How much did they have to pay you to make the deal? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

At least in some parts I think that could be done for less. Interior - 10k. I had a gorgeous complete interior job done for about 12k and that was a one off, In bulk I bet 10k would be realistic. Or perhaps a tad less. Avionics - go Dynon - maybe 30k? Gorgeous. New paint - 15k? Your refurb plan is what a lot of us have done individually. Most extreme was Bennet and a few others.

Realized in updating my logbook that I am now at 395 hours, almost 3 years of Mooney ownership, and need to do a better job sharing General Aviation with others. My wife and I took a couple kids from our early morning Seminary class for a little hop over to Riverside for brunch and then I let one of them do some flying after. The winds were crazy, 20 mph headwind on the downwind leg at 1,000AGL (out of the east) and after landing saw the flag at the approach end of the field showing winds from the south and the sock at the other end showing winds from the north. Full rudder on short final to keep pointed in the right direction, the kids both loved it, my wife not quite as much... Riverside Brunch, Nov 16, 2019

Ok, if you can get parts for that, then we all should stop worrying about parts for our Mooneys!

Nick, feel free to sign up when we open registration. Perhaps by then you will have your new to you Mooney. In either case, you will be amazed at how much you learn about safety and the make from truly the most knowledgeable people we can muster. You are more than welcome, as you already have your "mind right"

I was strolling around the B-47 at Wright-Patterson a few years ago and I was struck by how radical a step forward it represented. First flown late in 1947, it was contemporary with the B-29 and DC-4 but almost everything about the B-47 was new both in hardware and concept. It looks like the progenitor of every airliner now so we tend to forget what a shock it must have been to the observer in the late 1940s.

In the United States. Mooney was trying to make a trainer to be flown in other lands. They wanted a diesel engine, but in China they have auto gas just about everywhere, and I don't think there's any booze in it. They drink theirs. Booze free mogas available everywhere (I've been to the hinterlands of both Guatemala and Mexico and had no trouble finding car gas) and engines that will happily burn it. I still don't see the big deal about diesel.

After this post I recanted on the G1000 suite... So I admit I was off on that... However I don't think I a m that far off on the rest. I JUST had my mooney painted for under 20k. No way a 4 cylinder cost 80k to have a factory reman done. And 20k for an interior... seriously? Lets adjust a few numbers and see if things still walk Old Mooney with run out engine 60k Install RE-MANED engine 50k New avionics/AP 60k New paint 25k say 400 hours labor 40k factor 40k for warranty work 40k Interior 15k Insurance 50 k __________________________________________ 295k Sell em for 400k. or give an option for owners to upgrade their aircraft for 340k. That's 105-145k profit... more I think as some of that is just too high IMHO, you think they are paying the workers 100 an hour? I think their biggest problem would actually be getting the old birds.

@RogueOne I’m sure you’ve seen my G5 DIY thread. You can expect 8-10 hrs for the AI not including static check. Expect 20-25 hrs or so for the HSI if you have an autopilot interface more if you need to build tank circuits. You may need to fashion brackets depending on where you install the GMU. DM me if you want a Solidworks CAD for a wing sheet metal bracket if you have access to a brake (I don’t anymore). -brad

Aviatoreb: The noise is almost all prop (I have done many noise tests). Composite propellers can be lighter because the major load (centripetal) puts the blades in tension … where composites shine.

The cannon plug behind the panel is probably the lighting buss. They would all be yellow. They are doing you a favor by giving you extra lighting feeds for future installs.

No it won’t. ice forms on the leading edge, where the TKS panel is. It forms there because the supercooled droplets have more mass than the air, so the don’t accelerate over the airfoil. The droplets that are “contaminated” with TKS fluid have a much lower freezing point than before, so there is no risk of run-back icing as there could be with a heated wing. I have both TKS and a ceramic coating on my paint. -dan

agreed, but shipping charges aren't even a factor, but what is that US certified aircraft, the FAA Product manufacturing approval processes apply regardless of where its made and thus Mooney would have to work with the FAA to get approval to manufacture parts elsewhere. I am sure those cost at the small quantities Mooney needs would make such a move a non-starter.

It’s laziness. I asked my shop to remove stuff like this. There may be some extra wires for shops that do a little forward thinking. And run a series of wires for future use. Like the white wire bundle by the left rudder in the picture above. What I can’t stand is crap like this. How hard was it to bundle it up? When Bruce Jaegar did my interior, I took the time to properly route and safety any wire bundles running through the sidewalls. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I think I would try the Marvel Mystery Oil trick described in this thread, and probably do it to all of your Saratoga's cylinders. https://mooneyspace.com/topic/31082-mmo-or-other-oil-control-ring-tricks/?tab=comments#comment-521368 After that, run the engine for a few hours, and if your oil gets black again quickly, check all of your spark plugs. Re-ring the one cylinder (or 2) that has the most oil on the spark plugs. Worst case, if you can determine which cylinder is the culprit, remove and IRAN to repair the cross hatch of that cylinder.

Less than 100 nm: 4,500-6,500 100nm-200nm: 9,500-13,500 Greater than 200nm: 15,500-17,500 Over the Sierras and Rockies: FL190-FL200 I don't like the mask, so I usually won't fly in the Flight Levels. Also, Shirley has the tendency to get the Bends if in the flight levels more than 2.5 hours. For me the difference in TAS is not worth the time to climb, or the potential physical effects of flying in the Flight Levels in a non pressurized airplane. When I first got the plane, that was not the case, and I numerous times flew FL210-FL230. Going to teach at a PPP in KCOS one time I flew at FL230 and made the trip nonstop in a little over 4 hours. Same on the way back. On another trip back many years ago, after teaching at a PPP mountain flying class in KCOS and flying with my mentor instructor, we stopped in Wendover for lunch at the friendly casino just over the border in Nevada. By the time we were done thunderstorms were developing near our route back. I had no inflight weather like today, just the stormscope. I wanted to stay overnight, and had I been alone I would have. He said the always foreboding statement, "Let's go take a look". I knew it was a bad idea and would never have agreed to it today. Suffice it to say things got dicey as night set in, and a flight that started at 14,000 feet kept going up to the point I asked for and got a block clearance 24,000 to 26,000. Since the plane is certified to 25,000 feet, that is all I'm going to say, but suffice it to say I stayed in the clear and was looking down at cloud to cloud lightning below us. Even now I don't want to think of the risk associated with the loss of the engine that night. That definitely was an "I learned about flying from that" story.

Not in my mind. I think it is a great segue.

I would bet a bunch on this opinion. It would seem almost inconceivable that the mechanical aspects of oil pressure would be bad and then cure themselves.

Dave, I generally hate it when someone asks a question and everyone pops up questioning why he doesn't do something else instead, but I can't resist. It is none of my business how your financing requires an overhaul now, but I would be seriously trying to figure out how to avoid overhauling it now. You may very well have several (perhaps many) good years of life left in your engine. With regular oil analysis, and bore-scoping, there is very little chance of this becoming a safety issue. It just pains me to see someone throwing away engine hours when it is almost certainly unnecessary.

I wouldn't be afraid to do more transition. Mooneys aren't all that hard to fly or land, but they do bite when mistreated.

Another pet peeve of mine was the number of inline fuse holders that were under the panel. Most of these were removed in favor of panel mounted circuit breakers. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I watched a corporate entity restructuring, a relatively small healthcare group. The amount of secrecy, paranoia, outright lies on all sides was astonishing. Much firepower aimed at own feet. I was doing communications, writing news releases, and the like, and got stares of shocked disbelief when I asked if straightforward truth might serve them better. Everybody seemed so busy whispering, looking over shoulders to see who might be gaining on them, they couldn’t imagine just laying it all out there. As a result, morale was very low, and the mostly-false rumors made things, including patient care, much worse. Sigh. And these suits and bean counters were US. How much more corporate intrigue and circumlocution must there be in a Chinese-run organization, with cultural, political and language differences? boggle.

Bingo. I think they are jamming the russians, and the US GPS is possible collateral damage.

Sounds like they did not furlough the security guards so soles do remain. It's a weird accuracy thing, I can't turn it off.

Gasoline engine bsfc = 0.36 lb/hp-hr, diesel engine bsfc = 0.34 lb/hp-hr. That IS a big deal!

Credit cards, your phone, internet usage they all leave a trail. AMEX has one of the best heuristics systems out there which is why you never have to call them to tell them you are going to a foreign country. All those loyalty programs, etc all feed data to Google, Facebook et al who distribute it to anyone willing to pay for it and it is amazing cheap. I buy Facebook ads and I can target an audience down to the street and what for instance what type of pilot certificate they hold. It is unbelievably cheap. Your N-Number is displayed on a variety of sources VFR or IFR. If you parked transient, airports often log the information for ADAP funding purposes etc. Your assumption is less perfect. Go to any website, BestBuy, Amazon whatever and look for a product. Then go to Yahoo.com and see what ads pop up. I keep telling people, there is no privacy anymore. You can be "off the grid" but it is really, really hard. If you have any mobile device, forget it.

Thank you for the great suggestions, I will definitely implement them.

Going with the remote 345. Controlled by the g3x or 750 as I understand it.

There are a few things about oil consumption that I know, and a lot that I don't. What I know: Oil escapes by way of rings, valve guides, crankcase vent, leaks. You have to figure out which when chasing oil consumption. Some oil necessarily gets past the rings because the cylinder walls need lubrication or they will wear out more rapidly. As the walls wear, the cross hatching disappears. What I don't know: Why do Continentals seem to consistently use less oil than Lycomings? What's the best oil level for a Lycoming IO-360 for minimum consumption? Everyone seems to have their favorite. My experience with a lot of Lycoming 320-360 cu in engines over the years was to run them at seven and add a quart when it got down to 6. Many seem to find lower oil consumption with lower levels. I tried running between 6-7 for about 50 hours and 5-6 for about 50 hours after break-in in my Lycoming factory rebuilt IO-360-A3B6 and there was no difference. Does oil type (single viscosity or multi-viscosity) affect consumption? I recently changed from AS W100 to Philips XC 20W50 and in seems that the consumption has decreased, but it is too soon to have statistically meaningful data. I also added CamGuard to the Philips. Did that make a difference in consumption? (Hard to see how, but who knows?...) Here's a document I found a while back from AeroShell that states that "tighter engines" (I think he means cylinder to ring tightness) burn less oil on multi-viscosity oil, but he doesn't explain why. video-transcript-oil-consumption.doc Skip

Why say something like that? There are choices out there. If I'm designing a product, I'm going to design it around my other products. Why should I try to help the competition? Where it makes sense, like the Stormscope interface, yes, and maybe even an autopilot interface. From my perspective Garmin makes really good products that all work well together. I'm hearing nothing on MS or BeechTalk but problems people are having with the new Aspen Max both in getting it and the after market display issues. I'm still glad that where it counts I have Garmin.

As an EE I have to pipe in about PWMs vs. the stock dimming transistor. While very inefficient the transistor is virtually noise free (electrically); it ends up being like a rheostat and just dissipates power. PWMs can be quite tricky to design with low noise onto both their outputs as well as injecting noise back into the aircraft's power. I'd be REALLY careful with a low-cost PWM. YMMV.

With the installation of the GCU 485 almost everything can be done with knobs. After having the G500TXi for 8 months I put one in, not for turbulence, but to prevent the annoying right hand crossing over to make changes. While I could have corrected that problem by interchanging the MFD with PFD on the screen, that arrangement was even more annoying. So the GCU485 solved both issues. In turbulence I have still found it a little bit of an issue to set minimums, which can only be done on the screen. It usually takes me a couple of tries. With the GFC 500 the GCU 485 really isn't needed, since most of the functions it does can be done with the GFC 500. The one exception is setting the BARO, which is done a lot, so I'm glad I still have it.

Ed, He was at the chapter meeting you attended after covering that last Airlifeline Flight for me. I refrained from commenting on this thread up until now because how truly painful this loss has been. That said, my community of Mooney pilot friends has made getting through this just a little easier. I absolutely appreciate every reaction and comment to my original post as I try to figure out how I’m going to get through tomorrow, his funeral. And to be clear, I’m a tough love type of old fart. Not real good at relaying my feelings towards people Fairly recently I was talking to Steve and mentioned him as “friend”. He looked at me and said “friend”? I retracted and said “best friend !!” Only then did he smile and was happy with my response. He clearly wanted assurance he “was MY BEST FRIEND” . Not sure how I’ll find the enthusiasm to attend another Oshkosh “Air Adventure” after losing him. It will NEVER be the same. Thanks, Tom

There’s one more factor to consider for piper, Cessna (trainers) and Diamond (the trainers)... the pilot shortage. The students trying to fill our worldwide airline pilot shortage don’t have the cash to pay for expensive trainers and they aren’t planning on flying a SEP Cessna for the rest of their life. They just want the hours, ratings etc and are willing to do that in whatever plane they can afford. So those brands may have a market and customers to support their products. Bonanzas and Mooneys aren’t trainers and people who buy them have different goals. They buy them for long term family transport. They care about the Chute and the Cirrus was designed around it as well as their superior marketing.

Cirrus - chute + great handflying = Cessna TTX. And we all know how that ended... There, I did the math !

IMHO Anyone who believes a four place, single engine airplane manufacturer can compete with Cirrus without a whole plane parachute is kidding themselves.

Guys, please take a step back and look at it from the point of view that there is a reason Mooney only sold only a small number of airplanes this year whereas Cirrus sells 200. And not only Mooney, also Piper and Cessna don't sell anywhere in that class. The reason is so obvious, it is not worth discussing anymore. Lots of us have parnters and possibly kids. Many of them do not like to fly in small planes and do it just to please us. Many do not fly in small planes at all, marriages have broken over this, lots of them. People generally are afraid of flying, this includes a fair share of low time pilots too. Now comes along a company which makes airplanes which have the one solution every 3 year old "knows" is the rescue from any plane in trouble. That company soars to become the only manufacturer turning out any reasonable number. What more do you need to be clear on the why? Yes, it is the "anxious wife" effect but not only. Safety conciousnes has massively changed over the last decades or so. Daredevils were yesterday. Today, people don't look at private pilots, motorcycle riders and high mountain climbers as heros but quite few as stupid people who do not know what is good for them. In this climate, a parashute equipped plane is the only answer many anxious pilots, wifes and companies will ALLOW to be brought into their household. Believe me, I have coached quite a few first time owners in recent years. 80% of those who ask me about an airplane are 40-50 year old family people. My first question ALWAYS is, does your wife approve? 90% of those I meet will grow red faced and say "she does not know I am here". Of those, maybe 1 in 50 buys a plane afterwards, but if there is cash available for a Cirrus, I'd say the chances a reluctant wife will agree is maybe 1 in 10 instead. Those are facts of life. The time when a Lamborghini parked in the front yard got girls interested is long gone, at least here. It's responsible driving in a massive safe car by now. For a long time, people with kids bought even cars with crash worthiness in mind, that is what Volvo used to make a living of. It's the time of airbags, fines for not wearing seat belts and insurances which include broken nails. So it is also the time for single engine planes with parashutes. Mooney had the chance with the M10, it had the chance to get into a really good market with the Mooney 301 but it missed out on both, even tough the 301 lives on in the TBM. This has nothing to do with my own love for my C-Model, which is unchanged, even though I have to admit that with the prospect of having my 3 year old fly in it, I wish I could afford that shute. Call me a whimp, but that is just what it is. Most probably my family will not fly with me ever again, as too many accidents in recent years, too many people lost and too much confidence particularly in our engines shattered by mounting numbers of reports of SEP's which come to grief because those WW2 relics up front, many 30 years old or more, will stop in flight and leave those without a shute left to find that flat piece of ground. My own prediction will be that while the market has decided already, the FAA and EASA will eventually follow and mandate BRS on SEP airplanes which need to carry passengers. Those companies who by then have not gotten their act together, will simply be relegated to history. Similarily, either the aviation industry finally makes a leap in technology and brings up up to date engines and finally stops living in the 1950ties, only because it is no longer financially viable to certify new planes. And either that changes or certified aviation will simply die out.

Well, I preface with "what do I know".. . But I do run a $50+ million a year business so FWIW. It seems to me that Mooney has a competition problem. Cirrus. In that head to head battle, at virtually the same price point around $800k, Mooney is just outgunned. I think it's sexier. I think an airplane should have retractable gear. And I like FAST. Those three things are what Mooney has going for it. But Cirrus has everything else. Parachute. "Fast enough"--even if it's 20 knots slower, on most trips in real time it doesn't matter. Bigger feeling cabin. More Useful Load even with FIKI and/or AC. And don't forget...The parachute. I think what we see is the market segment willing to toss out all those advantages for an $800k new airplane is....small if it's advantages are 20 knots and sexy. 4 Acclaims in a year small. That's not a business, it's a cult following, and it won't pay the bills. It didn't. I think the right track starts with a variation on the "refurb old airplanes." Instead, build new ones that are irresistably priced. $100k for an engine. $100k for an airframe. $100k for avionics...but don't do dumb G1000 stuff --folks are wise to their $100k being orphaned by Moor's law. put in dual G500TXi s or dual G3Xs or even Dual Dynon's...make it an option. mark it up enough to pay the bills and hold some reserves..and figure out how to sell a beautiful, new, very fast, sexy airplane for $500k or less. Not $800k. Not without a parachute and all the advantages Cirrus has. Not enough wives will go for it. As one of my Saudi friends frequently says: "The Ministry of the Interior is dual-hatted as the Ministry of Finance". For $850k the MoF wants a parachute, and she can and will have one. I think what Mooney's proved at least 3 times now is that going head to head selling airplanes at the same price point as Cirrus is not gonna work. You know the definition of insanity. Time to do something different. Go where the competition ain't! probably too hard to do, and maybe Mooney is gone forever without a real visionary with very deep pockets. nickel on the grass.

I wonder if they could make any money doing something similar to the Renaissance Commanders... Buy older models with run out engines for cheap... completely gut and refurbish them with modern avionics, New engine, interior, Head to toe inspection and fresh paint, new windows and Sold as New* with some warranty. Could bring a really nice and basically NEW aircraft to market for relatively cheap. Old Mooney with run out engine 50k Install new engine 40k G1000 Suite 30k New paint 20k say 300 hours labor 30k factor 40k for warranty work 40k Interior 10k __________________________________________ 220k Sell them for 300k .... what other NEW certified aircraft would come close? That's a profit of 80-120 k per aircraft... of course there are only so many available to buy, but perhaps you could offer a program for existing owners to upgrade for 250k and get all the new goodies + warranty and charge less.

I bought my O after looking at Js in 2007... A small recession ensued... and the O was the same price as the J was a year earlier... A few great years passed... Then the ground struck my prop, while I was out of town... That experience can set you back about 60amu... 35amu for the engine, 15amu for the prop, and a bunch for R&R... factory reman... 175kts ROP 15gph 165kts LOP 12.5gph Flying around with no O2 with a family of four... is pretty comfy. Everyone is sleeping before departure... an hour later, they awake rested and seeing their grand parents... They have all grown up and gone to college since then... Best regards, -a-

Maybe... maybe not. New design vs known known. Get a glider rating instead, deal with an engine failure when and if it happens, and focus on the other stuff that causes 80+% of the fatal mishaps. Especially the pilot-caused 70+% https://www.aopa.org/training-and-safety/air-safety-institute/accident-analysis/joseph-t-nall-report/non-commercial-fixed-wing -dan

I don't know but my previous KFC 150 installation had all cables except the pitch trim servo, same as the Garmin GFC 500. The GSA 28 servo, a brushless DC motor "smart" servo is 40% lighter than the weight of the BK servos and cost $1,500 compared to the BK Servo which cost twice that much just to repair. Reliability, when compared to most other autopilots should be much better in spite of what you say regarding cabling. Add envelope protection both with the AP on and off, the LVL button for someone having a very bad day, IAS climbs and descents, auto VNAV descents, and you're left with a pretty amazing autopilot.

WD-40 spray on rag wipe off.

No Brian , you will use my crappy old set...

Clean 7 antennas , will need to be painted , 150 each , Alan 856 419 5209

Picked up my plane this week. Soooooooo happy with it.