Leaderboard

Maybe because those of us involved realize the amount of work, phone calls, people driving to Oshkosh to meet with EAA, conference calls with MSN Tower, OSH Tower, FAA, and EAA ground, etc. etc. starting on Wednesday prior. Weather happens, but it's the work, planning, and contingencies that make the difference. Who was it that said, "the harder you work the luckier you get." The high spot in the N40 was ours because we had people on the ground working with EAA in advance of the storms on Saturday to lay claim to it in anticipation of wet conditions. We got in Sunday morning in spite of the entire N40 being closed to parking because of the successful negotiations and communication between the Caravan leadership and all the other parties including OSH Tower and EAA Ground. This is the second year in a row that the Mooney Caravan has arrived to Oshkosh and the B2OSH group hasn't. There's no competition here and the B2OSH leadership had a meeting with the Caravan leadership last year and again this year to compare notes and hopefully learn from each other. Obviously B2OSH is more than twice the number of aircraft and that adds additional complexity to the operation. Those of us who were there and involved, want to see credit go to the team that worked so hard to make it happen, and not just to Lady Luck and the Weather Gods.

IMHO, Regulations and FAA guidance aside, it's a dick move to request a landing and do a touch and go. Just becuase you can, doesn't mean you should.

Well I sold my previous M20E 4 months ago, told myself I should save money... Well I did that for 4 months so let me introduce my "New" to me Mooney, it's a 1964 M20E with nothing I can really think of upgrading (so far). I'm excited for my cross country trip at the end of the month to pick it up!

@Becca, your priority seems to have been on getting in and parked in GAC asap and you wonder why all the Caravan chose to hang with the group and none chose go ahead and get in via Fisk on Saturday. ISTM it is a matter of priorities on why we go to KOSH. Folks who at minimum invested in a weekend clinic and had already planned to spend 2 nights at KMSN - to say nothing of their years of Caravan including seeing Mooney friends once a year - were more interested in the formation experience and parking with the community. The show doesn't really fully open until Monday. The journey is a big part of the whole experience. (Some of us had to relocate to a real armpit of a hotel for Saturday night in Madison but we enjoyed a nice dinner at a Japanese Steak House with 4 PICs and our families.)

A pilot is well within his or her rights to go-around in any landing and I would not expect the pilots decision to go around to be questioned. But... the argument that you can do a touch and go is really just a subset of the argument about whether a touch and go and a go around are the same. I've always taken the view that a touch and go and a go-around are two completely different things. A touch and go is an in-advanced plan to perform the landing of one's choice, reconfigure the airplane on post-landing roll-out, and perform the takeoff of one's choice. It is more like a stop and go than a go-around, differentiated only by the speed of the rollout. Would one get dinged for an unauthorized touch and go? Give it a try at a busy towered airport and see. How about your local Bravo or Charlie during push times? Better yet, make it on a crosswind runway where the Go takes you over the main runway(s) and affects the flow of other traffic. Make sure it's clearly a touch and go. Go slowly, take your time in the rollout to reset flaps and trim. When questioned after interfering with the pattern, don't forget to say, "well, it was my airspace, and I decided to do a touch and go."

I’ve done the Fisk Arrival three times. One, the first time in a new-to-me Mooney, was a hoot. There was a hold over the lake, and I entered it without drama, slowed down for the 172 ahead, All was well until a Champ shoehorned in ahead of me at maybe 65mph. Maybe WOT for him, I figured, but scary slow for me. As my stall horn began to squeak, I lowered the gear. Then 10 degrees of flaps. Slower. Faster. Slower. Champ swooped up and down, s-turns. On the arrival, finally, ATC encouraged the Champ to speed it up. Up with the gear. The rest of the arrival was untraumatic, landmarks clear, ATC professional and friendly., orange dot right under my wheels. Whew. Next time it was IFR into Fond du Lac. Time after that it was back into the circus that was Fisk, comparatively orderly, but muddy grass made the trip to N40 a little tense. So, being a total neophyte to formation flying, I was worried about joining the Caravan, a previous experience having been like being the last kid in a game of crack the whip. Boy, had they upped their game in the last decade or so. Very professional, excellent safety information, and even an experienced, and courageous military pilot to ride right-seat to keep me from screwing up. It was an excellent experience, one I highly recommend. Breakfast. Tent with chargers. Such warm, friendly fellow Mooniacs. Funny people. Parties. I hope to do it again someday...portapotties notwithstanding.

We're working towards that top spot, so I appreciate the support. If you need a thick skin anywhere, it on Beechtalk. My goal of being here is to listen and help people with support issues, and work with everyone to get better feedback on our products so we can innovate to create better products that serve the right airframes. Cheers, Steve

To be a modern day BK guy... may require having some thick skin... True of any sales position on the planet. The really skilled tech guys probably have to develop the thick skin... that can take some time... Really skilled tech guys, have thick skin, and you can’t tell from the outside... Be extra nice to the tech guys... they have answers to many of our questions... and aren’t forced to hang around here... Best regards, -a-

Here is first landing in six years. 446B17EB-AFDD-4D93-AE9E-828442D4C134.MOV

Did someone really make that comment on this forum? I'm sure someone can find a way to spend your money.

There was a kid that had parents that worked for the faa... he was 15 before he figured out his name wasn’t “No”.

I am now official. Apparently there is nobody within over 80 miles of me that has a volunteer receive site so they offered all of the equipment for free. This will be nice as tracking cuts off quite early when I’m near my home airport. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I had to build my own and then set it to feed all the things, not sure 978 is working right though, too little traffic to be sure. Then I had to build one for AIS too. Then I had to build a GPS time server so I know what time it is. And the weather station needs to come down and be replaced, it only survived our winds for one season.

Yep. That's why we decided to not fix our KFC200. Our pitch servo quit and it was going to cost $4000 to get it fixed. Keeping in mind we also had a roll servo, trim servo, KI256, KI525A, KG102 and flight computer that would also be expensive to repair we opted to scrap it all and spend close to $30,000 to replace it with dual G5's and a 4 servo GFC500 (to be installed in October). More reliable, more capable, lighter weight, cheaper replacement parts. Had we been assured that it would never cost more than $2000 to fix any of those items we might have stuck with the KFC200. Might have even bought the KI300/KI310 if that price had been more reasonable.

That’s why I always request the option so students don’t know. However it is often denied which tells me a go around isn’t simple for them. If you were given a single engine approach in a light twin and the examiner asked you to go around he’d probably fail you if you did. Go around in light twins with an engine failure are considered less preferable to just crashing on the field. And less survivable. -Robert

Bit of trivia. Broom Hilda cartoon was created by a high school classmate of mine.

There has been more than a few times I was out doing BFRs, or just being abused by my CFI friend Rene when we were cleared to land, I did a beautiful landing on the numbers when he starts shouting "Deer on the runway! go around!". The tower never gave us any grief about it. I would always key the mike as soon as I added power and say " 1MK going around". Training for stuff like that is much more effective if you don't know it is coming. FWIW, I was landing a 310 at P08 a while back. I was a bit long and he yells that after I touched down. I looked over at him and said "No F****** WAY"... He said I passed the test.

I am surprised the fatality rate is so low for experimental amateur built aircraft when I see things like this at OSH

Now for paint!

I believe your friend is incorrect. AIM 4-03-14 discusses it. This ATC manual reads the same way. The way i read it is that if you're 'cleared to land' you can land or go around so long as you've not 'landed' because you weren't given clearance to take off again. If you're cleared 'for the option' per the AIM explicitly you're cleared for 'the option' to touch and go, low approach, missed approach, stop and go, or full stop.

I attempted to create a set via waterjet. My intention was to be able to share the cad file so they could be produced at a local level for whoever needed them. The problem is that both sides have the degree scale and we could only jet the degree scale on one side as it was impossible to set the aluminum back in the precise position to create the degree scale on the opposite side. I ended up marking them by hand with a sharpie. The Mooney boards are very intricate and a work of art.

You can probably call any magneto repair shop and order it but the wire jumper should work just fine if it is made well and secure.

If anyone could share the vectors drawing for the 231 I’ll pass them onto the paint shop. Not to be dismissive but don't want the chef to spit in my soup...They are a very professional outfit so I am sure I will be happy with the final result! See below photos of the progress so far, absolutely nil rust or hidden surprises found so far, my engineers has been down to sign off whilst all the panels & flight controls were off. Great, if not surprising news considering she’s parked outside 365 days a year in sunny Blighty!

Shoot, fly over the Great Salt Lake to get some really weird views and colors coming off the lake. Lot's of cool stuff to see out west. Cheers, Brian

I changed both mine(Concorde) out of guilt a few years after 8 years of no issues, I never used a battery minder nor ran them down, my current concordes are both perfect after about 3-4 years.

Burned exhaust valves in these engines are usually a byproduct of loose exhaust valve guides. Whenever you have a rocker cover off to change the gasket, check the valve stem for wobble. Excess stem to guide clearance will appear a few hundred hours before the valve burns.

Alex, I always liked working on my plane and for the last 20 years of Mooney ownership, I would do my own oil changes every 25 hrs of course. I would take that opportunity to, cut open the filter, inspect the suction screen, mouse milk exhaust joints, visually inspect intake and exhaust, clean air filter, inspect for oil leakage, fuel leakage etc. I would remove plugs and borescope each cylinder and clean the plugs, re-anneal the copper plug gaskets, rotate and regap. Yep it took a 1.5 hr job and made it into a 5-6 hr job. I had the piece of mind of the condition of the engine going forward for another 25 hrs. It was probably overkill, but I enjoyed it and more importantly, it was a great time to put eyes on everything under the cowl.

Bobbie Eldridge Repair Department Administrator Allied Dothan (Globe Motors, Inc.) (334) 983-7237 Fax: (334) 983-7312 bobbie.eldridge@alliedmotion.com Globe turned it in a couple days, about 10 total with shipping. Installed and working like new. Cost just under $500 plus shipping, $533 total. Much better than the $1300 I was looking at from Mooney. Cheers!

Thank you all for the warm welcome. Since you asked for pictures, here you go

Alex, Thanks for the pics and PIREP. My Bravo goes into annual in 2 weeks at DMax. Wondering what all nuisances will come up. I've had high CO readings from my FF Sentry, but haven't had the exhaust system looked at yet. It'll be on my short list...

Are you kidding? It was landing on the single biggest and longest taxiway in the world!

I'm enjoying my factor rebuilt. -Robert

Did you find gold during your panning?

As for the old animal on the runway excuse, it would take a pretty precise combination of aircraft speed/configuration and animal location to make a go around a better option than stopping. I would have to be fast enough that I could get airborne in less runway than it would take to stop, the animal would have to be too close to me to stop and far enough away to be able to get airborne and clear them. If I can't stop or get airborne I'd rather hit the animal at 20 knots trying to stop than 60 knots trying to get airborne.

BK was one time at the top of avionics sector... perhaps they can reach that pinnacle again... I’m hearing some good things about their navigation avionics etc lately. I like the notion of great alternative choices. Rock on Bendix King!

I have always said it is crazy to use a pilot to smuggle by air. Especially today, it is easy to make an un-maned autonomous cargo aircraft. And with a little effort they could be made cheap, disposable and stealthy. BTW, smuggling is crazy to start with, get a real job.

Do mirrored scales on placards and screw them to the boards, a few extra steps but I believe that's how the originals are done

I used to know a pilot for the Customs Service. (That tells you how long ago it was). I asked him how effective the aerostat’s were at detecting aircraft. He said that they were mostly useless. All the planes they were credited with finding, were already known about before they got there. He said the field agents (he did field work too) would know that somebody was bringing a load across at a certain time and date, and they would usually know where they were landing. They would tell the aerostat operators and they would look for it. Then the aerostat gets credit for the bust.

J bar casualty: I have not had a new pair of sunglasses in about 7 years....guess I should start shopping...... I always check the area prior to retraction, never thought to check prior to extension.

Alex, Great pirep! Turbo exhaust challenges are more critical than NA exhausts... Any leaks that occur before the TC are extra dangerous... because the exhaust is still under pressure... resulting in a cutting torch effect... Then there is the CO that comes with all that. Fantastic pictures too! I Didn’t notice how wrong the cable support eye and clamp relationship is. Glad you pointed that out too... Best regards, -a-

Apparently the B20SH guys had their space picked out in advance as well... Their big tent was nicely set-up and waiting... for the party that was much smaller than expected... the spaces filled up randomly with a Mooney right up front... Breaking ranks, and coming as individuals doesn’t really work out very well... perfectly acceptable, just not preferred... The B2OSH guys essentially did that... but, the spaces aren’t really reserved... Lobby all you want, EAA has their first come, first served rule... the Bos got spread all over the place as they arrived... Some preference went to light planes with big tires... It would be nice to have reserved spaces for the Mooneys that had to come later, but that requires the luck of the empty spaces... and knowing that they are there... Ground control ops with volunteer EAA people is good for orderly flow. But, anything out of the norm, and things get a bit messy... no way to even discuss a request without yelling out a window... with somebody near your spinning prop... with little power to make a decision... Next year we’ll need new signs... GAC-MC and GAC-B2OSH... Leave nothing to luck... minimize chance as much as practical... The more the Caravan prepared, the luckier they got... Some things really appear strange... lots of people working in an organized disorderly(?) fashion... as if this is what they do for a living... in GA, the PIC is in complete command of his ship... come and go as you please... In instrument flight, we start to see some limitations.... like clearance Windows.... be off the ground by X o’clock... and hold for the next opportunity to use an IAP... In formation with 61 other PICs, the PIC is occupying a set place, and functions as part of a team... and is pretty happy doing that. there are many levels of leaders... from leading the Caravan, to leading one of the alphabetized wings, to flying the tail... Each of these leadership rolls is earned over time with added experience... The wing man is still PIC of his ship. If he has to leave his position, there is a procedure for that too... There are so many supporting rolls too... organizing and executing, hotel rooms and conference space, food and beverages, meeting times and locations, fuel availability and discounts, the awesome orange shirts, name tags, food, tent and tables, getting financial support from our favorite Mooney vendors, electrical equipment so everyone can be fully charged all the time, MS Pizza night... i’m Sure there were more.... everybody had a job to do...if they wanted one... There is a Plan B for everything... Plan A still takes a high priority... There will always be Mistakes and challenges that are going to arise... it’s how we recover from them that is important... There is a reward for all that preparation and planning... About 120 Mooney pilots and SICs lived in tight quarters, enjoyed some serious Camaraderie, and got to meet people that they have known for a decade... We ate breakfast together, shared some pizza together, discussed things we saw at the show... had a few beers together, and some traditional single Malts... One thing that was extra nice... our spot was comfortably close to the Hilton... and not too far from the Hardy’s... and the Target has a nice bathroom as well... just an example of planning at the individual level... PP thoughts only, not a formation pilot yet... Best regards, -a-

Paul's list is an all-inclusive excellent set that will be almost impossible to find all together. I kind of like @McMooney 's priorities. The time since major overhaul is a price deduct if high, so I wouldn't necessarily rule out something with 1300-1400 SMOH. Most 2-blade props have the 100 h eddy-current inspection requirement, so that should be a lower priority. It adds $2 to $3 per hour to the cost of flying if you have to do it. Maybe you buy a plane with slightly leaky tanks- another deduction from the purchase price. Autopilot is optional if you like to fly by hand. A working PC system will follow a magenta line quite nicely when equipped with an Accutrak or some such doohicky. If you have GPS you don't need DME. GPS is DME. Plus, the old DME's of yore are power hungry and heavy. Skip that from your list. Have it inspected for corrosion by someone who knows what they are doing. That is the biggest show stopper. The rest is just money.

Definitely a forever E . Very nice .

The job was on time and on budget. The quote was for $16k and 5 weeks.

That’s not true. You can get an experimental for air show exhibition are for testing and modification for an STC but usually this requires you to return it back to a normal category of airworthiness after a period of time. You can’t just stick experimental on it and go on though

Another option (less swooshy)

I mean no disrespect to the tastes of others. I'm prone favor to ageless looks, simplicity, and a subtle edgy presence that draws the observer in to really considering the inherent uniqueness of what's under the paint instead of the paint itself. And we're talking about a Mooney here in the first place that can speak for itself. To me...I don't particularly appreciate all the ~swooshiness today, and I have to wonder how the style will be looked at in say 10-15 years. Insofar as there's a style pendulum that swings between trendy and conservative...I think all the swooshes are about as aggressive-trendy as you can get, and when things go back conservative...the swooshes will look clearly out of fashion. If you choose conservative then you're be fashionable half the time in history (off and on). The above said I favor the non-busy look with the large eagle on the tail. No large swooshes to clash with the elegant lines of the Mooney planform, while the large eagle (with short wings) speaks heritage and unique culture. You look at that and you know you're dealing with a plane that's all business with history, and not today's basketball shoe. And there's probably some correlation to the above assessment and the fact that it's cheaper to choose a conservative paint scheme.

Fascinating thread, but some odd solutions proposed. M20C- fuel pressure on the engine pump climbed periodically to 6.2-6.2psi causing an EDM-900 alarm. The first thing you should check is the finger screen in the carburetor. It is a very short run from the engine fuel pump to the carb and that is the most likely culprit. I' pulled my screen out Saturday and it was clogged with a find grain, white grit and what looked like tiny bits of plant material. Cleaned it and FP now runs about 4.0-4.5. Go to the simplest potential cause first.

Summary... 1) A Rocket is a great Long distance, traveling, bird, in the right hands... 2) A PPI is the best protection for your wallet... writing a purchase agreement is a great way to organize the deal... 3A) With low time, the Transition Training is incredibly important... 3B) With High time, the Transition Training is very important... 4) Have you asked for an insurance quote yet? Insurance companies are notable for putting the kai-bosh on purchases like this. 5) We have seen a few accidents over the years... the most painful memories are the young guys that worked really hard, but didn’t fill the experience bucket before the luck bucket ran low... 6) Is this a pro-pilot familiar with Transition Training moving up the ladder stepwise to the next level...? 7) Familiar with the training required to get to this level? 8) Ever hand the keys of a Mustang 5.0 to a responsible 17yr old? 9) Buying a plane the first time... you can be 50 years old with a lot of life experience... and the behavior Of a 17yr old with the keys to a new mustang... will be on your back for some time... 10) Anything Worth Doing is Worth Doing right. 11) If money is important to you... To Skip half of the training time and money.... start with an entry level Mooney... 12) If your pockets are full up... expect the first year to include some heavy expensive training... 13) There isn’t much sense to have a 252 and no place to go... 14) There is plenty of sense to have a 252, an IR, be fully trained and fly internationally in the FLs 15) Doing it safely is going to take time, money, and training to get the experience... 16) Ask Andrew @Hyett6420 what it’s like flying a Mooney around the UK and the rest of Europe... he does it in a killer M20J! 17) Expect a very steep learning curve. Great, if you really like to learn.... This list was built from the people above.... a flight instructor, a military pilot, a plane builder, and few private pilots... Aside from all that....Now, go get the ball in motion.... proceed with caution. Get to know some Mooney people. Do some Mooney reading. How is that for motivation, with a side of seriousness? Best regards, -a-

Just got home from a 30 minute test flight and there is no sign of a leak anymore. Rain prevented me from flying a second, longer flight but I feel very good about the Locktite 271 on the stud. My thanks to everyone who chimed in with information, opinions, references and even guesses. I consider this to have been a collaborative effort and a group success. I will update this thread in a couple of weeks if all continues satisfactorily and sooner if it doesn't.