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Well I sold my previous M20E 4 months ago, told myself I should save money... Well I did that for 4 months so let me introduce my "New" to me Mooney, it's a 1964 M20E with nothing I can really think of upgrading (so far). I'm excited for my cross country trip at the end of the month to pick it up!

Who have you tried to reach out too? The goal is business as usual for TT and help them on there way with getting certs out the door. We know at this point their backlog is just growing, so we're going to try and help push through that backlog as well. PM me if you need anything, and I'll work to get it addressed. Cheers, Steve Pearce BendixKing

Yes, all of our Caravan members want us to sit quietly and wait for however long the FAA takes. No pictures of bent metal have been shared here and no information has been divulged, although the Official Statement was redone to explain that two planes actually touched in flight (from the original "there was an incident"). No information, no photos, no discussion--completely shuts down the opportunities for the rest of us to learn anything from the real events and its myriad possible causes. But we've been invited to next year's Caravan training to see the improvements. This is now the second time that I'm withdrawing from this thread, having been told already by non-communicative "informed persons" that I don't know what happened. Because I wasn't there, and those who were ain't saying.

There was a kid that had parents that worked for the faa... he was 15 before he figured out his name wasn’t “No”.

This would be great, but I wouldn’t hold my breath. This idea makes too much good sense for a federal agency to adopt it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I saw a short commentary (I think it was on the AOPA website and at OSH) about the Feds talking about something new for "legacy" airplanes called a "Special Airworthiness Certificate" to allow the installation of what are now unapproved parts (avionics)? One would turn in their current airworthiness certificate in exchange for this one. It would allow as noted what are now unapproved parts and maybe allow the owners to do the maintenance much like experimental aircraft owners do now. Maybe a special repairman's certificate (just speculating on that one). Limitations, as mentioned, might be nothing outside of the USA, no Canada or Mexico but I feel that might not be a restriction in the future, I can't find where I saw it but I'll keep looking. As I said, I think it was one one of my AOPA emails like the weekly update or something.

I have been a "lurker" here for about the last 6 months as I considered a Mooney purchase. I want to thank Mooneyspace.com for their generous and open door policy of allowing people to look in on subjects posted. It has been of great benefit in my airplane search. I am proud to say I am the new owner of N192JK, a 2005 Ovation as of 2023 UTC yesterday. She is currently located at Don Maxwell's shop undergoing a pre-sale, now an annual and a WAAS upgrade. Thanks to this forum I was able to select Don Maxwell as my preferred place to perform the pre-buy and I have had the honor to meet both Don and Paul who are real gentlemen and have been most helpful. I will be basing out of KGVL as I live on Lake Lanier My previous airplane was a PA18-160 Super Cub rebuilt by Cub Crafters. It was probably one of the few IFR certified Cubs around and had an Aspen 1000, Garmin 420W and a Lynx ADS-B unit. I loved the airplane but my mission has changed to a need for reliable and fast transport up and down the Eastern seaboard. In my search I needed good avionics and TKS. I wanted to avoid turbo charging, preferring horsepower and displacement. I don't really want to be sucking on a tube all that much in search of performance. It came down to an early to mid 90's Bonanza or a 2000 something Mooney. Since my wife and I are not tall people and it is usually just the two of us I concluded the Mooney was the best airplane for the buck and (shhhh), it will blow the doors off a Bonanza. I have flown a lot of Beech products, even worked for a Beech dealer and I love their airplanes but if you have to write the checks........ A little about my aviation self. I am coming up on my 50th year since solo at KRHV. I have about 29,000 hours. About 8000 in GA aircraft of all kinds from C-150's too biz jets. I have been a CFI-I, a Chief Instructor with examining authority, a Line Check Airman and a Part 135 Chief Pilot. I recently retired off the Airbus A330 after a near 40 year career. Aviation has been my life and passion all my life and being a pilot is the only thing I have ever wanted to be since early childhood. This Mooney will most likely be my last airplane and I hope it will be the best! I look forward to learning from you fine folks here. You all have been very helpful in getting me to this point in my "Mooney experience"!

Alex, I always liked working on my plane and for the last 20 years of Mooney ownership, I would do my own oil changes every 25 hrs of course. I would take that opportunity to, cut open the filter, inspect the suction screen, mouse milk exhaust joints, visually inspect intake and exhaust, clean air filter, inspect for oil leakage, fuel leakage etc. I would remove plugs and borescope each cylinder and clean the plugs, re-anneal the copper plug gaskets, rotate and regap. Yep it took a 1.5 hr job and made it into a 5-6 hr job. I had the piece of mind of the condition of the engine going forward for another 25 hrs. It was probably overkill, but I enjoyed it and more importantly, it was a great time to put eyes on everything under the cowl.

I'm still intrigued by the "inappropriate touching" of two Mooneys on the caravan this year. The fact that there's pressure to not talk about it makes it even better.

Oh crap. That means I started the next 13 pages that took this downhill.

Did someone really make that comment on this forum? I'm sure someone can find a way to spend your money.

Hey Everyone. The West Coast Mooney Club has a brand new website promoting our group and club activities. You are all invited to check out the site and also join the club by going to the site and clicking the Join Now icon. https://westcoastmooneyclub.com/ Thanks so much, MrRodgers

keeping the 20k I've paid in labor in the last year would more than makeup for any loss in value of the aircraft

1) Fisk is pretty safe... it would be hard to say it isn’t and have actual data to support the statement. 2) it can be crazy busy, similar to flying between VORs on a warm weekend, down low, in the North East... so call it uncomfortable for some, or many... 3) Part of the Caravan Plan is a bit hidden... I had to learn what a Madison Bag was... 4) I heard... ‘Don’t forget to pack your Madison Bag’... I didn’t know if I even had a Madison bag...had to look around the house to find something stylish that I could use for an overnight stay... and hold a couple of hundred pages of documents and my iPad... 5) Madison had another stylish convention going on too... if you are familiar with American Girl Dolls... Madison is a style leader... the headquarters for AG is just outside Madison... https://www.americangirl.com/shop/ 6) Finding all the extra time... back when I was working... that was more of a precious resource. Retirement helps. Grown kids helps even more... Free time was available... Madison is where I got to sit and talk with Yves and his copilot Patrick... Another hidden detail... you are going to meet a few people that you know, and find out more about them... The hotels were low cost, the dinners were low cost, yet the conversations were priceless... similar to our Fryer Tuck’s nights of the past... 7) Fear of Fisk is similar to fear of flying... the more you learn about doing it, the less fearful it is... that’s the Notam that Becca referred to reading a few times... 8) Fear of close proximity to other planes... becomes less fearful when you have training, experience, know your wingmen, and have great weather... 9) It can really help Having a copilot onboard... Caravan and Fisk are similar for this... 10) Flying at 120ias doesn’t leave much opportunity to do anything other than fly, and scan... out the window... 11) Healthy fear... can be a strong driving force for a person to work at improving their skills... KOSH... The more I go... the more comfortable it becomes... Best regards, -a-

Upgrades are in. Panel lights, G5, turn coordinator and JPI 830

http://www.mooneycaravan.com/news/updateonmooneyincidentatmooneycaravan19july2019 http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2012/07/plane-crash-at-eaa-airventure-airplane.html Updated Statement Relating to Incident During Mooney Caravan to Oshkosh XXII, 21 July 2019 posted Aug 5, 2019, 3:42 AM by Ashley and Maria Neboschick [ updated Aug 5, 2019, 3:45 AM ] As many of you know, we had an incident during Mooney Caravan 2019. During the en route portion of the flight, a slowdown occurred during a rejoin to fingertip maneuver. During this same time period, an en route course change also occurred in the direction of the rejoining wingmen. As such, an overrun occurred and both pilots took corrective action. After landing it was noted that contact had occurred. No other elements of the formation were placed in danger by the incident. Currently, a team of Caravan individuals is analyzing the event in order to come up with procedural recommendations. This team is in the process of gathering and reviewing all available information. While our internal investigation is not yet complete (and will not be until the NTSB makes their analysis and recommendations public), there are several takeaways that we are working on for future Caravan operations. These recommendations will likely include more thorough training, more focus on emergency procedures and emergency calls, as well as more detailed written emergency procedures. Please be patient with us as we try to decipher the information, and come up with meaningful conclusions. It is important that the NTSB report comes out prior so that we can incorporate all data into a thorough Caravan safety report.

Too bad she didn’t have a 406 ELT.

I honestly have no idea what you are referring to. None of the sequence you listed for the Caravan is remotely accurate. The decision to not fly in on Saturday was made at about 7am, the storms were indeed forecast at the arrival time of 1130, hence the reason the caravan delayed. The Caravan was scheduled to land right after the Cherokees. About half of that formation had their tents destroyed as they attempted to set up camp. Yes B2OSH delayed through their first arrival window, electing to attempt an 8 PM Saturday arrival, however the airfield never re-opened for grass parking so their leadership decided to cancel their mass arrival. The Caravan did not use the B2OSH landing window on Saturday. On Sunday, the Caravan was given a 9am land time by OSH ATC. The Caravan was then slightly delayed by EAA because they were unsure where to park 62 ACFT. Initially, the plan was to park the aircraft on a taxiway until a dry enough spot was located. it was not until after the Caravan landed that EAA informed the lead aircraft that they had a parking location available. There was continuous coordination between the Caravan Lead pilot and OSH ATC and EAA, luck had nothing to do with it.

If you haven’t already committed to Plane Plastics, Mooney will still produce a replacement side panel for your K. I have an ‘80 K-model with the same panel and just went through this process at annual in May. Went with the original Mooney panel and looks good as new. As a side bar, Plane Plastics does NOT make the correct panel for your oxygen setup, and will not custom make one (ask me how I know). After fighting with them for nearly two, maybe close to three months to get a refund on the returned incompatible panel, I decided I probably won’t be doing business with them unless I am absolutely certain they have what I need.

Just being able to do routine maintenance on your plane without spending 2 years studying jet engines, pressurization systems and deicing would be great. I’ve long advocated for a private a&p program not for hire with restricted authorization ( ie change a mag but not overhaul an engine) Also saves a couple grand on every Garmin panel toy. I guess that means it won’t happen. -Robert

Fwiw - the airport was open on Saturday morning before the late morning storms rolled in. That’s when we arrived, 7 am - had about 4 hrs of good weather to set up and then watch the storm from a restaurant. Parked in Row 520 so really close to the show. Many Bos and Cirri would have been able to get in if they looked at the weather and realized that their formation arrival schedule would be in the middle of a storm and just come in on their own time earlier in the morning rather than waiting for their “slot”. Instead they spent another night at a motel instead of at osh, the downside of formations. Mooney caravan though was basically miraculously timed for arrival this year! I was really happy for the caravaners for that timing it was basically perfect. that said, I don’t think any midair’s occurred among the thousands of airplanes that arrived via Fisk, one midair occurred out of 62 planes on the caravan. I don’t think that is conclusive evidence that a mass arrival inherently less safe. But that’s not the point of this thread - more that Fisk is safe. That said... I have been a little concerned, as I mentioned in the other thread, about the caravan safety culture given the currrent response, but I’m holding judgment until I see how this is handled in the training and procedure updates and transparency about what happened...

Thank you all for the warm welcome. Since you asked for pictures, here you go

I'm actually selling my airplane and have been looking for a new one (M20E to 182, please don't hate me). One of the problems I'm having when looking at new planes - people selling their old avionics like they're new. 430 and 530 will be getting old considering the new beautiful stuff for under $10k, stec 30 and old AP are going to be subpar compared to the new stuff. So I'm having a hard time buying someones old avionics for new avionic prices. My ideal plane I'm looking for is a newer engine, impeccable maintenance history, and a clean slate to put the newest avionics in. One thing that I want to see in the plane is some type of engine monitor when they overhauled the engine.

I changed both mine(Concorde) out of guilt a few years after 8 years of no issues, I never used a battery minder nor ran them down, my current concordes are both perfect after about 3-4 years.

Oh that's right! I forgot about the Bugs Bunny version! I couldn't remember anything about a mole and hook nose from the Niebelungenlied She sounded like a huge character who added a lot to aviation and the people around her. We need more people like her

I told everybody EARLY AND OFTEN what happened (chain of events) that resulted in my gear up almost 15 years ago. You were snarky and mean spirited then and now. I completely understand why pilots involved (that have the potential for legal action against them and their freedom to fly) reserve their words for official review. Very little has been said about recreational formation flying hazards on the thread. I am about reducing risk exposure. The idea of flying formation for “fun” is alien to me. Others? Have at it. Am I surprised that an incident (that could of been catastrophic) occurred? NOPE.

Individuals over on BT are reporting 3 weeks, ~13-15 business days. This was one of the reasons I decided to hold on the upgrade. I didn’t want the plane to be down a month.

Alex take one of your old dental cameras and a small monitor and make a portable kit out of it. Twice a year I pull one spark plug per cylinder and look over the valves. Time well spent imo.

Hey Everyone. The West Coast Mooney Club has a brand new website promoting our group and club activities. You are all invited to check out the site and also join the club by going to the site and clicking the Join Now icon. https://westcoastmooneyclub.com/ Thanks so much, MrRodgers

I have the wings synced. The tail is a standalone. I think eventually, im gonna connect the Tail. The ocd annoys me. Im also gonna connect the tail nav light next annual too.

Not sure if this is a great solution for you, but BatteryMinder has an aviation charging setup that includes a small solar panel to keep your battery topped off... BatteryMinder desulfating solar charger

It got attention, The problem is instead of actually discussing the incident some would rather flood it with garbage in an attempt to hide any real discussion. The only thing worse than it happening is it being allowed to happen.

I see this all the time. You’re calling it a minor alteration (I agree, fwiw) But you’re signing a form 337 which at the very top says “Major alterations”. So why not just skip the form 337 and make it a log entry.

I hadn't realized that, I assumed the Floscan was just a pressure gauge as well. I hadn't looked at the installation closely enough, so I assume it is installed the way you are describing. Thanks, and sorry @carusoam

Fantastic, thanks. Guess I'll have to just wait and see what it is. I'll be back to ask more questions or say "thanks", maybe a pic or two. cheers

I have an IA in the hangar visiting from out of state and he looked at it and said HE wouldn't have any issue with it either. AND I do occasionally have another shop do my annual just so I don't miss anything. AND if needed- "Alteration data from the current edition of AC 43.13-2, Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices—Aircraft Alterations, as approved data for major alterations for nonpressurized areas of civil aircraft when the AC chapter, page, and paragraph are listed in block 8 of FAA Form 337

It isn't a Mooney but I think it is gorgeous. I just got my S35 Bonanza back from paint. It was on time and on budget. Jet Crafters in Safford, AZ (KSAD) did it. http://jetcrafters.com I'm happy. Photos added below.

The job was on time and on budget. The quote was for $16k and 5 weeks.

That was the part I was missing! No problem convincing yourself to sign off on future annuals

EAA had a write-up summarizing the FAA administrator's remarks about the Modernization of Special Airworthiness Certificates (MOSAIC) Rulemaking Package. Nothing written in stone yet but article included the following tidbit: "Finally, Elwell announced a very exciting prospect for the legacy fleet. For older aircraft not being used for commercial purposes, owners will be able to exchange the standard airworthiness certificate for a special airworthiness certificate — similar to certificates held by experimental aircraft. "That means the owner will be able to install lower-cost, safety-enhancing equipment — the kind that is widely available for the experimental market — without an STC or 337."

I use it as a cutting lubricant when drilling sheet metal in a pinch.

For me the biggest advantages are moving the CG aft 1.2 inches and making getting to the rear of the engine (especially the left mag LOTS easier). I need the extra aft CG position for fuel weight. I have a heavy 3 blade on the front! Secondarily will be battery life which I think will be greatly improved by less vibration and heat. As I stated, I'm not a big fan of jump starts. It is dangerous in my opinion due to charging off into the blue with essentially a dead battery and improper charging of a dead battery leading to loss of battery capacity. What happens if you jump start and lose the generator 10 mins into the flight? Can you get the gear down without using alternate means? How about flaps? How about radios? IFR? As an aside- if I were to do lots of IFR I would also do a battery capacity check every year. That's also an ICA requirement but that's a discussion for a different time. I'd also know how to down load the CBs fast so I had every advantage in battery time if I lost the generator in flight IFR. How long will your battery power what you need in flight? You might really want to know this if you go IFR a lot. Try running everything for 30 mins on the ground without the engine running and then see what your unloaded battery voltage is- if it makes it 30 mins. Your battery is your life line IFR. One battery, one generator (in most cases), after that you're on your own. Just because it started the airplane doesn't mean it will last a long time in the air. Remember, the last time you came out and found your battery wouldn't turn the engine over enough to start, it did just fine one flight before. An item to think about, in most jet airliners, battery capacity is listed as 30 mins only IF you get down to DC power only. That means get your butt on the ground as fast as you can because from 35,000 feet your going to use almost all of that time getting down to the ground. I used to teach that if that happens declare the emergency and get to the nearest suitable airport as fast as you can. If one looks at 43.13 one will see that it is recommended to use factory locations and factory parts to make approval easier. I am using factory locations, attachment methods and parts. A 337 will suffice as a major alteration. Yes, an IA is needed to sign off the 337 but its still easy to do. Electrical loads? All one has to do is duplicate what Mooney already has done in hundreds of other Mooneys (which if one is smart that is what one would do in a Mooney). Take a look at the wiring diagrams and see what wire sizes are used and duplicate that. Also a new master solenoid is being installed in the back so there will be no loss on old contacts if the original solenoid was used (50 year old contacts mean lots of wear there). We are not talking rocket science here although, I knew a real for God rocket scientist once :-) Years ago some airplanes came with aluminum wiring that caused high resistance in connections and loss of battery voltage making for hard starts under heavy loads. Not used anymore. It all has to do with proper wire size and good connections and a well cared for battery. How many Mooneys have the battery in the back with NO problems? :-) :-)

Ameilia Reid, aka "Broomhilda". A force of nature and one of the best sticks I have ever encountered. RIP.

See if this helps... Denver always seemed pretty far west. Until today... Best regards, -a-

This is a great place to start: I flew my 67E out of Reno for about 15 months and had a blast doing it. My routes back east involved going Reno to Salt Lake City then through Wyoming basically following I-80. Fly early in the morning to avoid the thermals and bumps until you are clear into Nebraska or heading across eastern Colorado. Furthest north I ever got was Yellowstone, so not familiar with flying up there unfortunately. The M20E did fine, all the way up to 14,500 which is where I stopped. Didn't have a reason to go any higher, but I'm sure she'd have climbed all the way up to the service ceiling if I asked her to... Cheers, Brian

Just fwiw, I want you all to know, Amelia doesn't sleep while flying, even when somebody else has the controls. She also doesn’t snore... What a beautiful airplane!

The next set of mooneys garmin is certifying is literally the rest of the M20 Series, from the basic original M20 to the 20A, B, C, D, E, F, and G. Change the title and get all the vintage mooneys instead of just the F models. You want as many Vintage Mooneys as possible. not just F models.

??? I must have mistakenly log onto Cherokee list or something!

Ok here is test #1 Next we will do the pure white one and probably the black with white lettering Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk