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So I could be smiling like this!!!!!! For a little while I’ll be the newest Instrument Rated pilot:) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just a humble observation. Your opinions REALLY have more to do with “icing” than the TKS System, maybe even “icing in a GA plane”. I respect that, but probably a discussion under a different topic. It’s pretty clear you have no experience with TKS on a Mooney. ALL TKS systems have tail deice. Knowledge of the system would be nice when commenting. Secondly, you’re 10 minutes late if you’re turning on a TKS system AFTER encountering icing conditions. The system works 10 times better wetted out BEFORE icing conditions are encountered than trying to deice after building ice. As far as effectiveness, our Mercy Flight organization has numerous active AND retired airline pilots. Without exception, every one of them feels our SE Bonanza is SAFER in icing than our “boots equipped” twin. Absence “real world” experience with TKS, maybe a little more discretion and system knowledge would be appropriate before knocking it’s capabilities. And lastly, if you’ve built 1” to 2” of ice on an airplane, seems you pushed your equipment well beyond its abilities, which falls back to my earlier post: maybe a little better flight planning or decision making would have avoided that situation. In 2.5k hours flying with TKS protection, I’ve never built ANY ice on protected surfaces unless “I screwed up” and, even then, never seen ice at anywhere near that level (probably because of my flight planning). Affording a “heated deice system” is not an option for Mooney pilots or we would be flying in those planes. Tom

So, we decided due to weather, First Flight was the way to go! Tangiers was LIFR. Slightly bumpy on the way there with some time through clouds which gave us a chance to mention @carusoam insight on aerobatic pilot breakfast choices. On the way back we watched the sunset through the clouds before landing back at KHEF. It's amazing to experience that first GA flight again through the eyes and smiles of children!

Doing a flight review today for a guy in a Mooney 231 and saw this big boy on the ramp.

@ShermAv8tor I just may know someone that will soon have everything you need to do this conversion, the switches, wiring, brackets, pushrods, actuator, emergency gear crank, everything! I’m just waiting for a few more parts to arrive and then I’ll have everything I need to convert my F back to J bar. All my electric gear parts will be for sale soon!

ran across this looking for something else, thought it might be useful. there are better videos on the subject but this was aircraft related

If I pulled on the heat knob until I was warm on a mid February day I’d pull it clean out of the panel. I really need to move south...

With the exception of the G1000, you are precisely describing the Diamond DA40XLT, current MSRP approximately $400,000. manufacturing costs are but a fraction of the total cost to the manufacturer. Have a look at an aircraft maintenance manual. Contemplate the cost to produce that. Certification costs must be recovered over a few hundred airframes per year, and a wildly optimistic estimate to certify a new aircraft would be $75 million. additionally, with cheap money, the sticker price of the plane is less important than you might think. That extra $200,000 for the DA40 vs the hypothetical composite M20 is less than half the TCO of a new plane. Ditch G1000NXI and you could probably shave another $50,000 off the cost of the Diamond. Cirrus has created demand and drawn new people into the hobby. Perhaps Mooney should concentrate on producing a more capable and useful aircraft to peel some of them off. -DE

When I bought my C, I looked here for advice. After that, I started looking for the nicest example I could find. I found a very very good one just under 50k almost 2 years ago. I had a PPI done. I went and flew the plane. It really was everything it was advertised as. In almost 2 years, I've had to scrub only 3 flights. One because a freshly overhauled magneto self destructed, one because somehow the glass fell out of the rpm/MP gauge, and one because the throttle cable broke. I've put almost 500 hours on my plane in under 2 years. The market for C's seems to be topped at around 60k right now, with most really nice examples in the 50k range. Spend the extra 20k on a really nice plane with all the bells and whistles, but still put aside 10k for repairs. There always will be some needed. I almost guarantee that you will spend less this way than buying the cheapest plane you can find. I just looked. 269 flights in C. 3 scrubs. 98.8% dispatch rate

Wow! No engine but still has a drip pad . . . The tail outside looks neat (but different), but I don't understand having the rest of the plane inside . . . . .

X2 It is vital to wet the wings before ice has accumulated. If I think I need it I prime it on the taxi out

Agree with @Yooper Rocketman about being “10 minutes late.” TKS is pretty effective, but it does take time to get the wings and tail wet.

keep looking.....Take it from me,,you can easily spend another 30k-50k on this plane......you said you want it to travel with so you need to be close to 100% dispatch reliability. I enjoy that comfort but it cost me 28k for my plane and then another 50+ to make it safe and enjoyable and up to date, ADS etc etc all ADs etc etc all SB's etc etc...all mostly done at a MSC etc etc. but at nearly 80k into the plane I am still way under what a later model mooney would cost me because I would still have to put 10s of thousands into anything I would buy that would be newer.... Good luck in your search

Another new guy that posts a question and then can't be bothered to check back 36 hours later. -and says he found a 63 M20C but posts under Modern Mooney Discussion -and then warns us not to give opinions but only post if we can help him.

interesting thread.... I have a couple pennies to toss in. If I were in OP's position I would likely be OK with having the inadvertent Icing TKS. For starters and most importantly, going into known icing in a SE aircraft is not something I would want to do, TKS or No. Secondly, known icing is not (to my understanding), possible icing conditions. In other words, nothing says you cant go into freezing temps with visible moisture. These conditions do not always produce ice and actually frequently do not. according to the aim, known icing is "atmospheric conditions which the formation of ice is observed or detected in flight".... SO if you start getting ice, turn on your TKS and then get out of it! Also, if you know there are possible icing conditions ahead, ask the controller if there are any PIREPS for icing on your route. If there is, avoid it. So to me anyhow, the difference in how I would operate 2 aircraft, 1 with FIKI and one without is zero.

The 530W is processor limited and can only display 8 targets in ABSOLUTE mode. The vector lines coming out of the target will be white and not green, which differentiates Absolute from TargetTrend.

I thought he upgraded his J to a K and signed on under a new name???

Based on the previous posts, my guess is it is on the airplane someplace. [emoji2957] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Not enough paper to print it on and not enough gigabytes to do an online calendar. You’ll just need to enjoy those limited opportunities when they present themselves. [emoji38] Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

I would say the lower the budget, the more careful one must be. The broker is correct that it's easy for a $30K airplane to have more than $30K worth of problems. I have a list of over 10 situations where someone bought a cheap Mooney only to spend close to, or over the purchase price just to get it airworthy. The problem here is that fixing things costs the same whether on a $30K M20C or a $120K M20J. If the tanks are leaking, the repair costs the same, if the landing gear pucks have to be replaced, it's the same cost, if the gear trusses are rusted and have to be replaced, the same costs. Avionics cost the same whether it goes in an M20C or an M20J. The difference is that spending $30K to improve a $120K J is reasonable. Doing the same for a $30K M20C doesn't make economic sense. Especially since $50K would probably buy a turn-key, well maintained, and upgraded M20C. I would not spend $30K on an airplane without having a very thorough PPI done by a shop that knows what they're doing with Mooney PPI's. And that's probably an MSC. Feel free to post the link to the plane. Chances are, someone here knows of it.

A while back, there was a thread in which several people expressed concern with the possibility of the pilot's seat unlatching and sliding back during take-off. I have come up with a device to prevent that risk. It fits over the right seat rail behind the seat, and prevents the seat from sliding back. The brass appendage is a spring/ball latch that snaps past the top of the rail to keep it from bouncing off. That may be overkill, but it seems to work. The notches are to clear the back cotter key stop. The funny step goes to the rear, and is necessary to clear a small hump at the back, and the carpet (at least on my plane). One downside is the necessity to tailor it to your particular seat location. But it is easy to put the seat in position, reach back and press it onto the rail, and equally easy to reach back and remove it. Naturally, feel free to copy, modify or make suggestions for improvement. I could probably be induced to make you one, but would need the measurement from the rear seat bracket to the back "wall".

The life of the shock disks depends upon several factors most importantly the weight of the plane. Long bodies are much harder on the same disks than little Cs and Es. Mine were last replaced in 2002 by Maxwell and are still within spec.

The correct direction to be converting.

Congrats!! Now go get it wet. And water it often.

This is what I did. I've still got the small engine driven pump but it's only hooked up to my speed brakes. We pulled all the other vacuum lines out as well. We also removed the standby vacuum pump from the tail. It's really heavy, like two hands heavy. If my engine pump fails, I only loose speed brakes. So no big deal.

I’ll be sending your student the rest of the luck I didn’t need to pass the check ride. There probably not much left to send them though:) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The goal in my mind would be to increase reliability more so than decrease weight. Plus the vacuum AI is the KI256 which is very expensive to keep working.

Congrat's! Now you've earned your certificate to continue learning in the IFR system. File often!!

To each his own, but I am not amused to see a vintage Mooney defiled in this manner. A Cirrus version might be more amusing. Maybe attach the chute to the roof of the cabin?

I hear this all the time about cars and planes. BUT . . . . I trained in a Cessna, then bought a Mooney. Zero carryover . . . I went to driver's ed in a Ford LTD, lo these many moons ago. I still have not bought a Ford vehicle, although I did inherit the Ford Ranger that I'm driving now. I have owned but didn't buy a Chevy, then bought Honda, Infiniti, Jaguar, Hyundai, Toyota and Nissan. Zero carryover . . . Is this pattern really that unusual???? Do Boeing, Lockheed or Airbus make entry-level "step up" jets? Not that I'm aware! Gulfstream, Cessna, Lear, Fokker do, and the nice folks who make CRJs. But they don't make the big ones to compete even with an A320 or 737. It's quite difficult to make something to suit everyone. Pick a market and set out to dominate it. Mooney has picked, they just lack the spirit to dominate.

that's for those cold winter days/nights where you want to fly, but do not want to leave the house. Brian

If you sit in the plane you can pretend fly into a pole.

People keep commenting that the Mooney is a fifty year old design. It is actually closer to being a seventy year old design. I think Mooney had the right idea in designing a new composite airframe to try to become competitive in the marketplace. They needed to do that if they were going to remain relevant in the future. Unfortunately, it didn’t work out. Was it a lack of capital to see the project through? A lack of commitment? Did they not understand what would be required in order to succeed? Was it poor prototype performance or a combination of these factors? Cessna attempted this awhile back with their Cessna NGP (Next Generation Piston) but abandoned the project and purchased the Lancair Columbia line instead. Even though most reports I read stated the Columbia / TTX was a superior aircraft to the Cirrus, that just didn’t work out either. There was a lack of commitment to compete with Cirrus and Textron has effectively ceded the market to Cirrus. With Textron (Beechcraft and Cessna) not interested in competing, Piper and Mooney unable to compete, Cirrus dominates the market. What will become of Cessna single engine production when the demand for trainer 172s evaporates once the demand for Working Pilots is satisfied? Long term success in this market mandates carbon fiber construction, fixed gear, a comfortable, modern cabin and a parachute for safety. Modern designs have shown that the complexities, expenses and risks associated with retractable gear are unnecessary to achieve acceptable cross country performance. Why incur those costs and risks? The parachute has saved lives. When things go really bad you still have one hope left. I don’t think we can underestimate the value that adds. As a heart patient with four stents in my areteries following a nearly fatal heart attack six years ago, I do worry about flying with my Wife and putting her well being at risk if I should have another “event” while flying. One of those chutes would become pretty valuable to have in that instance. I think that the legacy manufacturers can eke out an existence for awhile with part sales and possibly some repair and restoration work if they want to. To succeed in the future, they are going to need to design, build and market a product that is significantly superior to Cirrus. In other words, they are going to have to out Cirrus, Cirrus. Good luck with that.

I bought an E in 1978. There was no internet (Mooneyspace) or wise old aviators to enlighten me so I was on my own. The salesman assured me the airplane purred like a kitten and was in great shape. First annual was 1/3 of the purchase price. The engine case was cracked, tanks needed reseal, etc. Not relating my (in)experience to discourage you or scare anyone else, but if I were to do it again, this forum would be my best freind. Good luck, enjoy the hunt, every plane you research or look at will give you a better understanding of the intricacies of these magic machines.

Chris, perhaps you've been lurking here for a while but your post count implies you might not be familiar with MooneySpace, particularly those member who have taken the time to comment above. IMNSHO, you're way off base with this statement.

I spoke with Paul about this last month while they were still planning the event. Mooney owners are always talking about the speed they get out of their birds. He thought it would be fun to categorize Mooney's by model and have a point A to point B speed trial to see whose was the fastest. I agreed that it would be fun to have a little friendly competition amongst other Mooney drivers. Plus, it gives us another excuse to fly...lol.

Separated by less than a second

ohh, my apologies, I didn't realize that. I will remove it from the post. This however doesn't change my .02 on the matter. If I am in ice in anything that doesn't have heated edges, I am not happy. I have experienced icing that has completely overwhelmed anti icing and deicing equipment and in a fraction of a second put 1-2 inches of ice on the aircraft and got multiple hits. One of the few times I have been truly scared in an aircraft. That is just my opinion, nothing more.

100% understand. I was't trying to come across as harsh; just concerned that you might be looking at low-end planes because money was tight. Far better to pay $10-$15K more for a plane, than spend the first year or so putting that amount in to bring a low-end plane up to snuff. While the same amount of money in the end, the second method would be far more aggravating.

I agree. Chinese own Mooney and they could easily reverse engineer all the components into single assemblies. Carbon fiber molds for two-piece fuselages and wing assemblies. Could reduce the parts count considerably and cut production costs in half. It could be done. Use Dynon avionics which is a fraction of the cost of Garmin and certify a UL 200 HP engine and you could produce an aircraft under $200,000.00. Introduce 7-year lease options. It can be done.

But then again, you may find an airplane that costs a bit more but the owner clearly took care of it. Harder to find, but worth searching for. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

World Superbike is back so that is a good thing. Austin is a fantastic Formula One track, just a so-so MotoGp venue so yes, I also wish it would return.

You could now tell your passengers that it isolates your headphones, so all you can hear is ATC. Flip the switch, then really hear what they have to say about you....

Thread drift . . . . Speaking of Laguna Seca and Superbikes and MotoGp. A friend of mine, Ruben Xaus, raced Superbike and MotoGP. I got to go out to Laguna Seca a couple times to see him race. Later I got to take him up in a Cessna I had at the time. He got a taste for General Aviation and later on back in Spain ended up getting his private license.

Thanks for all the great and "Informative" replies. I was finally able to get a hold of the previous owner and the switch is Non Functional that either the first owner had put in or the factory did!!! Thanks again for all the replies.

I know he was flying charters, maybe things picked up and he just doesn’t have the time. I did notice José “Pee Venturi” hasn’t even been on for a while since his little episode. And we all know where Peter Garmin is. Sitting out front of the Bendix King warehouse watching for the KI-300 to begin shipping. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Alex If i was in your shoes i would replace the the 2 rows of mortiz engine gauges and Shadin display with the EDM 900 mounted right there. Your avionics shop can cut a plate to cover the removed equipment and mount the EDM at low cost. Once painted to match it will look fine. A year or two later when ready for more extensive changes you can get a new panel cut for an entirely clean slate design. Even with the EDM, I kept redundant EI MAP and RPM gauges, so I would keep your existing ones for now. Here is how I did mine and I think horizontal mount as some benefits assuming it will fit that way - but you have the portrait option if needed to. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

One other thing on the topic of integration. As gsxrpilot points out, this stuff will integrate to some level. Buying all Garmin will guarantee everything will integrate but will typically cost you more if you want additional features. I’ll give you an example. I fly the corridor between Washington & Philly quite a bit, especially during the summer on my way down to lower Delaware and Ocean City Maryland. On VFR days, it is jam packed with VFR planes doing the same thing. And then on top of everything else, you have Philly arrivals descending through that area. I wanted an ADS-B solution but also TAS capability. I also wanted a unit that also had an internal GPS and wasn’t dependent on my GTN. The corridor is ironically a non-mandate area and I expect there will be many non-compliant planes still trans versing the area after January 2020. I found that you can purchase a version of the Garmin 345 with an internal GPS. Installed price at the time was $8500. It was not however TAS capable. To get that capability, I would need to add a GTS 800 TAS. That box is another $10k plus installation. I found that the L-3 9000+ installed, with antenna, was $10k. The L-3 has an internal GPS, has TAS and is able to show everything on its own display. Trade offs? I see TIS-B and TAS targets on the GTN. I don’t see weather products on the GTN. The L-3 integrates nicely with my Aspens. All traffic and weather products display on the Aspens as well as on the L-3’s own display. Side benefit. L-3 manufactures the WX-500. So, my WX-500 also displays on my 9000+ in addition to the GTN and the Aspens. There are some real benefits to an all Garmin suite. There are also some real costs associated with it. I think Don mentioned he has over $100k in his panel. For a Bravo that he intends to keep, makes all the sense in the world. But like Paul, my panel was considerably cheaper than Don’s and I have functionality that anyone could want in a Mooney. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

The Professor, @donkaye unquestionably has the best panel ever installed in a Mooney, (including the new Ultras rolling out of the factory). And there certainly is something to be said for the turn key nature of a single vendor panel. But it's not the only way. My panel was done for less than 25% of the cost of Don's. I only have two Garmin units in the airplane, a G5 and a GDL69a. Everything else is Aspen, Avidyne, BendixKing, PSEngineering, JPI, NavWorx, etc, etc. But everything talks to everything. Integration was simple as all these different vendors adhere to the same standards for communication. Also they all take my phone calls when I have a question. Garmin won't talk to me, but want me to talk to the avionics shop. The IFD540 and the PMA450b were installed by me. I just backed out the old Garmin box and slid in the new modern unit and done. That saved a few thousand dollars right there. Avidyne is always running specials that include a free transponder/ADS-B if you buy their GPS. Meaning I didn't spend any $$$ on a new transponder or ADS-B in and out. I get Traffic, Weather, and SiriusXM on the IFD540 along with Synthetic Vision, Bluetooth and Wifi, all at no charge and no extra boxes to install. (The free SiriusXM is an anomaly) My panel isn't as nice as Don's. But it will fly a full coupled approach to minimums, and has nearly all the other features as well. The transponder, ADS-B in/out, and other stuff is in the tail with the IFD540 running as the head unit. It makes for a clean uncluttered panel. There are quite a few members on this forum who can speak to the simple utility but full feature list, of this panel. Just another option to consider.