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A pic of my magic carpet. As you can seeing desperately need a a cleaning

Great discussion on a subject that seems to come up every time we hear of a Mooney accident. Because it is a Mooney, with think of the pilot as one of us and that’s a lot closer to home and we feel we owe a measure of respect, and we do. However, as long as it is done in a respectful fashion, and I certainly think that has been done here with respect to this accident, I don’t have a problem with a discussion that may even be speculative to some degree if it reminds us all that this addiction that afflicts all of us has little regard for mistakes and carelessness. In over 30 years of flying I have made my share of mistakes. In more than one occasion the skill level required exceeded my capability and I survived by the grace of God or just dumb luck. As I have gotten older those experiences have served to remind me the foolishness of putting yourself in that situation. I hope I still have many years left to feed my addiction as there are very few things I enjoy as much as flying my Mooney even if I have nowhere to go. If, however, a future mistake ends my flying days, please feel free to discuss, and even speculate. I do believe someone will read, learn, and if it gives them pause the next time they are contemplating a challenging flight then the discussion has served its purpose. Be safe out there! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Hello all, Alex here with the latest happenings. So I'm in Florida & completed training with Mike Elliott. A truly great experience with a top notch instructor & very fine human being. I can not say enough good things about Mike & his style of instructing. His schedule is quite busy but well worth the wait. We spent 3 days transitioning into the plane about 13-15 hours plus 20 plus t/o & landings. I as a low time pilot gained valuable skills/knowledge from Mike. A heart felt thank you Sir. Currently the plane is in the talented hands of Phil J at PJ Aviation for a good once over & fix minor squawks discovered. I've been in Florida since 29th of Jan. & since the NH weather is arctic like will hang here till March being I'm newly retired! Awesome feeling I might add. I'd also like to say thanks to all on MooneySpace that advised me to seek out Mike & Phil. Here some pics of the last few weeks. 20190205_091616.mp4

I’m not noticing any unusual smell in the air. The shop rates needed to keep the doors open and employees paid will vary in different parts of the country. I have no idea what the above shops charge by the hour. But if Jesse holds to the $7250 that would be around 28ish hours. He clearly states that the price/time would need to be increased for removal of an old system. IMO we are splitting hairs at this point depending on how much trash they find behind the panel. Getting the job done right is the most important thing for a system as important as the AP.

Just got my Halos and gave them a go on a 3 hour flight. Besides the obvious benefit of having something ultra light weight on my head I noticed no post flight fatigue, head pressure/tension, or any signs of a headache. I need to go for a longer flight but so far I think a headset clamping my head was causing a lot of my discomfort without even realizing it. I have also read ANR technology can cause all kinds of discomfort including headaches for some people. I feel like any pilot who frequently experiences post-flight fatigue and headaches should give something like this a try.

Two quick thoughts... completely unrelated: 1. Cold flying at smaller airports... watch the snow vs wingtips carefully! Snowplow drivers seem to also be high wing flyers in my neck of the woods! I literally had to shutdown and shovel just off the runway once and couldn’t even get close to the cheap fuel I had actually come for! Small airport, city plow. 2. Without getting into huge lop discussion, 50 LOP might be good at ~75% or 80% power to keep you out of red box/fin. As power gets lower, box gets smaller and disappears ~65%. So as Shadrack and Carusoaum said... at 65% power you can run much closer (or at) peak and get better performance while still lop. At higher power settings (usually down low altitude), 50 lop might be more appropriate.

I try to always quote a flat rate on jobs like this. If we get it done faster, that’s good for us. If it takes longer than expected, it’s not as good for us. Either way you win because you know what it will cost. If I have to remove another auto pilot, I’ll usually give a flat rate upcharge for that. This may not be the way other shops handle it, but I like to handle things this way. If we run into something that must be changed that is a major thing, then we will discuss it with the aircraft owner. If the typical Mooney install takes longer than expected, then we would have to increase our price. If it goes faster than normal, then we would drop our price.

having so many awesome vintage planes within our group is simply amazing. Brand M is in great hands, the establishment of Mooneyspace is one of the best things to happen to our brand if not the best. Witnessing the restoration of planes, updated avionics and the establishment of the Summit could all be aimed at Mooneyspace, it’s our duty to notify every Mooney driver about Mooneyspace.

To your original question regarding cabin temps- I would suggest you have a qualified mechanic inspect components of your aircrafts heater. I can think of no reason why your heater’s performance would be materially different from the one in my F model. Unblended heater air in my aircraft is so hot as to be intolerable by front seat passengers. I am surmising that you either have a blockage or a leak in your system. The next time I fly I’m going to point a laser thermometer at my heat vent. It will be interesting to see just how hot it will get.

When something is different, start with what has been changed. Troubleshooting which works in the air, and on the ground. As I said we cleaned up a bunch of old dead end wires behind the panel during annual. We also replaced the old antenna cables with RG-400. Trouble shooting a little more and found that the whine was audible coming from the radio when the PTT was pressed, you didn't have to have a headset on to hear it. This also was occurring without the engine running so it was not coming from the generator or mags. I started with the coax cables, clipped the zip ties holding everything together, separated them, whine is gone. Re-routed the cables and secured them, whine still gone. For whatever reason the way they were run was causing the issue. Glad to go fly without that annoying sound.

My last instructor had me do my whole FR save for the first and last 200’ under the hood. I don’t care for stalls under the hood, but I managed just fine. My left wing drops first ever so gently power off. Power on, it drops more aggressively. If you’re lazy on recovery, it will approach 90 degrees of left bank

CiES are the best fuel senders available for our airplanes, period, end of discussion. I've had mine about 400 hours now. It's amazing what these airplanes can do when you absolutely know how much fuel you have and where it is at all times.

That was one of the reasons stated, but he had been trying to get rid of it for years before 9/11. Basically, he was just a dick flexing his political muscle.

Hank, the inside of my freezer is significantly warmer than outside my house right now. I'm not sure why I live here. I have flown in some stupid cold weather in the past. With proper preheating the airplanes generally did well in the cold. As Lance pointed out, If the cockpit isn't' preheated the gyros will make the most awful noise. It's worse than nails on a chalkboard. Two years ago I had an accident that changed the way I thought about cold weather flying. I now put my limit at 5-10F and daytime only. Packing warn cloths is important. But in the event of a forced landing there is a good chance for injuries. Injuries that could make it impossible to put on the said clothing. It's also possible you could be pinned in the airplane or knocked unconscious and several hours from help arriving. Due to the bulky nature of cold weather gear it's difficult(uncomfortable) to be fully suited up while flying in a GA cockpit. I crashed in the dark when that OAT was 5F. My gloves and hat were on the seat next to me at the start of the flight and nowhere to be found when I came to. I suspect if it were daytime I would have found them. I was wearing a sweatshirt and my jacket was in the rear seat along with my Carhartt Bib Overalls(I brought the bib overalls in case of a forced landing). Luckily I was able to free my self and crawl out of the airplane. I tried to put on the overalls but was unable to due to my injuries, so I threw my coat on and headed off for help. By this time my hands were so cold I couldn't zip my jacket up. I was only exposed to the elements for about 1.5hrs yet I had fairly severe frostbite to my hands. It was 4 months before I started to regain feeling in any of my fingers and still have some areas that haven't returned. This was at 5F. I can't imagine if it would have been -20. So I would stay home on Wednesday. People worry allot about flying over long stretches of water or mts. But -19F surface temps render the Midwestern terrain just as inhospitable. Cheers, Dan

i everybody' I am the proud owner of a 1965 m20E and i just wanted to introduce myself.I purchased this plane up when the previous owner (a friend of mine) decided he needed to sell the plane since he had gotten sick and hadn't flown in 4 years.Fortunately he was an A&P and had secured the plane for its long sleep but he did lose the airframe and prop logbooks. I bought it and am in the process of getting it getting it annualed so im sure i will be here asking questions to learn more about mooneys in general. the plane has a brand new interioron a major and 3000TT, paint is going to be donewahen i get it stripped so bring on any thought or ideas. Right now am thinking if a white top with a carribean blue/green bottom

Heading to St Pete next Friday and Saturday and looking for a PIREP for Whitted field. Nothing in the comment section of ForeFlight and did a quick search here but nothing recent so just asking about tie downs, service quality and anything I might need to know before I call. Thanks!

Here is a not-so-great close up of the retractable step. Some graphics would be a nice touch.

Agree! I am no doubt headed for a bruising. I found nothing in the filter last week... again. Blackstone calls it a "nice report". Again. Compressions at last annual were 79/80, 79/80, 78/80, 78/80. Similar to the 4 before that. Yup, something has to be just around the corner.

That decal looks good. Nice work. I bet that an M decal would look good as well.

Some thoughts about filter materials... The finer the particle to be caught... the more surface area is used... to keep oil pressure from dropping across the filter.... hence the pleats and big containers of the filter vs. the finger screen in the engine... I have used laser drilled SS filters for making coffee.... industrial coffee making in the restaurant environment... damage can be a real possibility when mishandled.... When comparing filters... Keep an eye on... particle size pressure drop Strength of design Either way... the part of cutting open the filter I didn’t like, was looking into it... fear of seeing big particles has never gone away.... Best regards, -a-

That’s the starting temperature, you add the additional temp across the top to get the total temp. E.g., for 110 degrees you’d go down the first column to 100, then move across the cell under the 10 column...5.814 mV.

Well said you have a great way of smoothing things out. Yes I take responsibility for being too optimistic in the initial estimates. What I should have done is wait until after the first install to start talking numbers, lesson learned. Let’s all have a great weekend and I am still very excited about this autopilot. I just did another test flight last week and it was rock solid. If you know of anyone with a piper or Cessna with one installed try to bum a ride!

Very interesting. Break even point here assuming one changes changes the gasket every time seems to be about 15 oil changes, which is less than how many I've done in 4+ years ownership. Thus it should appeal to every CB here who does his own oil changes. Questions would be (1) does it filter contaminants as effectively? (2) Is it any easier or harder to remove and reinstall, accounting for need to clean it as well? (3) Is it any easier or harder to inspect for metal? I hate the hassle of cutting open the filter and pulling the element out of it every time. However these are not in widespread use, and I'm not an early adopter - someone else please take the plunge and report back

THAT'S a Super 21!

Great looking plane! Inside and out! I also just did some training with Mike and echo your thoughts. Where in Florida are you?

The camp stove is already in there. Like the rest of the suggestions. Although I may need to slice up the watermelon to get it in there. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

You forgot a watermelon, camp stove, 6 pack of Bud, fishing pole and extra toilet paper

They don’t care. Like many things in aviation CHT is used as a proxy. The temperature of the plug is what matters. Summizing the literature I’ve read on the subject, TEL and Ethylene Dibromide form Lead Bromide during the combustion process. Lead bromide is a solid below ~700°F. Without Ethylene Dibromide, TEL would convert to Lead Oxide rather than Bromide. Lead Oxide has a much higher (~1650°F) melting point.

I think the gen 5 and 6 planes come with cies senders from the factory. The senders in the 1-3 fail occasionally. It's something like 5k to upgrade to the cies. The gauges are basically useless as long as you enter your fuel into perspective. Out totalizer is accurate to about a tenth of a gallon over a 5 hour flight. It's hard to see when you've filled to tabs with the small fuel necks and a large nozzle but a hell of a lot easier than dealing with monroy tanks and never knowing how much gas you really have. We have learned the hard way it's generally very bad to let a shop that isn't a cirrus service center work on the plane Our plane is an 08 and considered a dinosaur in the Cirrus world but Cirrus factory support is still good even our the "old" planes. It's almost like they understand that keeping owners happy sells more planes.

I have the AV-20S. We did the install during the previous annual. The install took about 6 hours each for my A&P and myself, plus a couple hours from my wife who is really good at pulling wires. We installed it next to the airspeed indicator, so we just teed off the pitot and static lines that were going there. My A&P agrees that swapping out a clock is a minor modification. I really like it. Mostly I use the time functions, secondly the real time TAS indication is nice to have. It agrees with the calculated value from the GNS430W within 1 to 2 knots. Knowing that there is a backup attitude indicator there is great. I've been unable to get the probeless AoA thing working yet, but that is probably the last thing I care about anyway.

It's millivolts for common junctions http://www.ni.com/white-paper/4231/en/

First four years of ownership, I was with AOPA, they only provided more than one quote once (and didn’t seem to want me to change). Last year, got a quote from Falcon with 3 underwriters and went with Global.

Thanks carusoam, we've had the O since around May 2018, always been a Mooney fan - I had an 88 J as my 1st aircraft back in 2000, swapped that for a FIKI Bravo in '03.

Check out the Frantz STC'ed oil filter that uses a roll of Scott toilet paper as the filter element. No shit (pun intended).

Let me know when you come to Selma, it's not far. Compared to Texas, I'm already there . . . .

This thread is beginning to sound like one in a Cirrus forum some years ago. Cirrus still had the bad accident rate and people were comparing it with the great accudent rate of the DA40, speculating it must be something about different stall characteristics. Being new, I innocently said I didn't think that was it. I had done falling leaf stalls in both and didn't see any difference. Wow! Did I get it for my dangerous attitude in daring to do such a dangerous, non-syllabus-approved maneuver! (For those unfamiliar, the falling leaf is a power off stall in which you delay recovery. You continue to hold the stick back, maintaining coordination with rudder. The nose bobs up and down as it stalls, unstalls, stalls...until you decide to recover.)

Your JPI shows -7°C at 5500 MSL. That's about 20°F. I'm not even sure I would call that cold.

Sven: Thank you for the excellent dissertation. I am in the process of entering my right fuel tank to remove my original fuel sump drains, and install the newer style drain valves per SB20-188. Your posting has saved me a great deal of time in researching the methods to remove/replace the wing walk material that covers the tank panel. Many thanks, Bob K

Try to get to inspect work done by a prospective painter and pay attention to details: Hawk replaces all hardware with ss. Includes camloc style fasteners on cowl and battery door and nylon cup washers. Joe also r&rs riveted data plate to paint underneath it.

Thanks Anthony Id love to take your money but no need as the pricing will be the same for everyone on Mooneyspace. I just got word from TT that the retail price for the Mooney kit will be $5,000. My price for Mooneyspacers will be $4,850 with free shipping in the CONUS and an additional $50 off if you pay by EFT instead of credit card. I will definitely let you know when we are ready to bill. I have a list of 16 Mooneyspacers who want the Vizion and will go down the list in order when TruTrak is ready to ship. Hopefully getting close!!!!!

Been waiting for someone to test asymmetric deployment at takeoff. Thanks for the pirep Speed brakes work by increasing the parasite drag. Parasite drag predominates at higher airspeeds. At best glide speed (L/Dmax) parasite drag and induced drag are equal, and below this speed induced drag predominates. So, adding additional parasite drag from the speed brakes has less effect at lower speeds. Skip

I think that's my plan next time for sure. As far as performance, I was on Enroute climb speed, and still getting 1300 fpm.

Packed! [emoji1787] List of ingredients: 2 Person thermal tent Thermal blankets Compass Rain ponchos 50’ parachord Water purification kit Collapsing cups Sleeping bivvy Glow sticks LED strobe Fire starter kits (flint and waterproof matches) Carabiners (lightweight & climbing) First Aid Kit Signal mirror, whistle Camping stove Portable stove gas Camping pots Hunting knife Collapsing shovel Folding saw Hatchet Food is brought on day of flight PLB, flashlights, VHF radio in flight bag Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

50nm!? 4 hours!? Why that’s child’s play. Just local flying I tell you! That darned Mooney is so hard to get in and out of that’s its better to piss in a bag than have to climb in and out an extra time! Or all over the underside with a hose if you’re the guy who STCed the tanks to fly that long. Actually it’s such a nice ride there’s no rush to get out so might as well just fly on.

You guys overthink this. I just climb in, and I'm not sure how I do it.

Welcome aboard! Have lots of fun, and let paint and interior wait until after all mechanical things are proven to be functional for a year of flying, and you have a chance to evaluate things in the panel and what you might want to change / replace / upgrade / add. We like spending other people's money here, so be prepared for lots of unsolicited panel advice!

Just received my rebate and thought I should post the flightaware record of my validation flight. The flight was conducted under the ORLANDO class bravo shelf. I never exceeded 2600 feet. I basically did some lazy turns, remained there for 30 minutes and flew home to beat the arriving cold front.

I was wondering if others tip the staff at FBOs? And if so for which services and how much. Sometimes I feel like they are outright expecting it and other times are surprised to receive a tip. I always leave a tip when they give me a ride some place in their crew car cause I figure it's still a heck of a lot cheaper and more convenient than a taxi.

MIke, I have made it a practice when I land to let them top off my tanks and also if the lineman are helpful and nice I will tip them$5-$10 .Especially if it is a place where I fly frequently. They always seem happy to see you and you get great service.Just a way of letting them know they are appreciated.