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A lot of people don't know that Mark (owner of PS Engineering) & I worked at HP at the same time. If there is one thing "old" HP drilled into us was that quality mattered.

I’d suggest going with PS engineering whatever. I have a 8000b that I got for not much. My cowl deck leaked once and it dripped on it shorting out side tone. I pulled it out and drove 30 minutes to PS engineering here in east TN, and they comepletely refurbed it while I waited. All new buttons and faceplate, which I didn’t even ask for. It was nice to see all their engineering and manufacturing happening under one roof right here in east TN.

Well, the Saga is over. I got my plane back today. I did the engine break-in this morning and all is well. The airplane is in better shape than when it went into Annual last September. I'm waiting on the last insurance payment to put this whole episode behind me. In the end it probably couldn't have gone any better than it did. Now down to LA tomorrow to work with another student; and in my plane and not Commercially. Edit: I got the final insurance payment a couple of days ago. The ordeal is finally over.

I would easily make that flight nonstop in my Eagle with the 310 hp stc and 100 gallon tanks. I would have a little over 2 hours reserve flying at 10K with a 6 kts headwind. I have A/C on my plane so I loose a few kts. On long trips i fly my plane up high and turn up the rpm to maintain the same airspeed and less fuel burn. I think they Eagle/ovation is the highest performance and saftey with the least amounts maintenance in the entire Mooney line up. With an Eagle you also get the highest useful load. I just reweighed my plane and have 1057 lbs useful and I have A/C but no Built in O2, pretty impressive! I prefer portable O2 since it’s easier and less costly for me to refill. Today I would

i everybody' I am the proud owner of a 1965 m20E and i just wanted to introduce myself.I purchased this plane up when the previous owner (a friend of mine) decided he needed to sell the plane since he had gotten sick and hadn't flown in 4 years.Fortunately he was an A&P and had secured the plane for its long sleep but he did lose the airframe and prop logbooks. I bought it and am in the process of getting it getting it annualed so im sure i will be here asking questions to learn more about mooneys in general. the plane has a brand new interioron a major and 3000TT, paint is going to be donewahen i get it stripped so bring on any thought or ideas. Right now am thinking if a white top with a carribean blue/green bottom

Mooney was my first airplane after I got my PPL in a 172. Landing a Mooney is like shaving with a straight edge razor... with good technique it is as smooth as a baby’s bottom... with poor technique it gets ugly and bloody real fast.

And this man, I'm quite proud to call my friend............... https://generalaviationnews.com/2018/08/16/it-came-back-to-me-quickly/

Your first post shows 148 KIAS, 9000' IALT, 30.35" ALT setting, and 14.2 GPH. At the standard -3 temp, that's 168 KTAS and 11.8 NMPG. ( You do realize the Beech ASI reads 2 KT high, right?) FWIW my race setting is 172 KTAS and ~15 GPH. but this is 95% power ROP at 1000' DA. I never said 170 KTAS at 10 GPH. But I can do 162 KTAS at 9.5-9.6 GPH. Its a noisy 2600 RPM but its there. At long range cruise it will touch 21 NMPG. Yes thats 120 KTAS 5.7 GPH. And here's some real world data for you. KISM to KAXH. Coastlined it. 6:03 flight time, 2300', about half was a few knots of headwind, and total burnoff was 39.8 Gallons. And i refilled it myself till fuel was spilling over the wing. Thats 780NM and 39.8 gallons. Average net headwind. 19.59 NMPG. Beech airplanes are known for stellar build quality, roominess, superior seating position, larger windows, outstanding control harmony, more useful load, and outrageous spare parts bills. However, fuel efficiency is one of the tradeoffs. I'd pay good money to see a S35 Bonanza fly KISM, KTLH, KAXH on a 39.8 Gallon burnoff. It physically isnt possible. Or lets put it this way, and I've done this before with my wife flying the S35 Bonanza, at every speed, the M20J has a lower FF rate. We were comparing real time info on the radio. Side by side in formation. Photo proof below. At max S35 cruise of 172 KTAS, yes, we're both matched at 16 GPH. But at 160kt, 150kt, 140kt, 130kt, we were always significantly less. Especially at 90 KIAS. 4 GPH. An IO520 just cant do it. Enjoy your Bonzana. I love them. I like Beechtalk more than here. Its a great community. But again, don't tell Mooney pilots your plane offers all the things I mentioned above along with lower trip burn or higher NMPG.

If you select a middle spot, thinking that is approximately where ‘Both’ would be... The surprise on the taxiway is about 30 seconds later... If your fuel selector switch has no detectable detents left... it is time for a selector switch OH... From my collection of transition training experiences from a C152 to an M20C... Best regards, -a-

The biggest difference is the fuel selector cannot be set to BOTH tanks. Other than remembering to change tanks, transitioning to a Mooney will be a piece of cake

My Dad and I took off on a seven day adventure, 36 flight hours flying round trip across the USA, ocean to ocean. Just finished editing the Westbound part of the trip to the Pacific Ocean. Part 1: Westbound: Part 2: Eastbound:

That's what I thought, and I know there are some printed checklists out there that says close the flaps, but when I double-checked the POH, closing the cowl flaps is actually in the "descent" checklist right before the "approach for landing" checklist. I usually don't bother with opening the cowl flaps until more than 700' AGL on go-arounds, the motor doesn't actually heat up much in those first 30 seconds, and I'm usually busy with other stuff (like not hitting things)...

This is a great expression of what I, and I think many consumers on Mooney Space are thinking. We're trading no ILS approach without GPS for a LVL button and other VNAV capabilities. Many of us have decent or great autopilots. I think that if Garmin said we'd have VOR/ILS capability without GPS input those on the edge would more than likely drop the 20k. I know I would go from about 40% likely to upgrade to 90%+ to upgrade. Good post AviatorEB.

That's a crazy idea that conjures up some vivid mental imagery. I could see Bill Murray involvement. There are better and less dangerous ways that don't involve somebody with a hose in the back of a pickup truck spraying large drops of water into sub-freezing air while being chased by a spinning meat grinder. There are several icing wind tunnels in the US- that would be a great place to do some controlled testing. Demonstrating durability for products with environmental exposure is a very challenging task because of the huge variety of conditions our aircraft operate in other than icing conditions. What about bug splats, sand hits, super hot hangars, UV exposure, humidity, condensation, frost, dust, raindrop impact at high speed, washing, detergents,... I guess I would want to know a lot more about the environmental durability of this stuff before trusting my life to it. Often with claims of durability are true with regard to one or two environmental factors, combinations of more of them usually result in steep declines in product durability. It's a fascinating problem.

Didn’t the Star Trek’s Enterprise just use force fields for de-ice? And that keeps bugs off the plane, too. You never saw Mr. Chekov peering ahead through a bug-spattered windshield, right? I’m going to get me some diLithium crystals off eBay.

The real “genius” of Al Mooney was figuring out how to package four people into the smallest wetted area with a cabin wider than a Bonanza.

Welcome aboard! Have lots of fun, and let paint and interior wait until after all mechanical things are proven to be functional for a year of flying, and you have a chance to evaluate things in the panel and what you might want to change / replace / upgrade / add. We like spending other people's money here, so be prepared for lots of unsolicited panel advice!

Sure am glad I fly a simple C model. Not sure I'd cut it in a J . . . . . I've edited your list above for my plane, just 4 items. Oh, I do verify that my Carb Heat is Off, but it's almost always Off anyway. I've used it prophylacticly in flight twice in twelve years and never due to actual or suspected ice.

No parking brake and seat belts in the 172?

I do recall my friend who I did some IR safety piloting with made fun of me doing my GUMPS check in my M20J: Fuel tank fullest Fuel pump on Gear down -- white and green Mixture rich Prop full flaps down cowl flaps closed seat belts check Parking brake off She pointed out her C172 GUMPS checklist was: Carb heat on Flaps down

This post got me thinking about our current military breakdown/ demographic, as well as us population vs total military members by decade. The link below talks about current demographics, for those that are interested. Makes me wonder what is in store for future generations. https://www.cfr.org/article/demographics-us-military

Most M20's are almost impossible to put out of balance. in the M20J, the fuel tanks are pretty much smack on the CG, so your balance barely changes, and if you put two heavy people in front, it's still impossible to get the weight too forward. Backwards, it would take putting your brother in the back seat as well as 100 lbs of luggage in the cargo area.

I have 15US gal auxiliary tanks with 15US gal main in my modified 1953 M18C (1986 M-18X experimental/homebuilt) burning 4-1/2 to 5US gph at high cruise with a Continental A65-8F. Easy 600NM+ range with reserve at 75% high cruise (125-130mph). Stock M18's came with 12/15 US gal tanks (depending on year manufactured and Lycoming O-145 or Continental A-65 powerplants). Lycoming O-145's were more fuel efficient and were therefore often fitted with the smaller tank. The licensed gross weight of certified M-18's would not permit full fuel with addition of electrics, avionics, and large pilots. My Canadian registered M18X has its' much higher (683lb) empty weight offset by its' much higher 1025lb gross weight, thus realizing the impressive endurance (and range) with a 170lb pilot. Al Mooney flew an M18 with even greater fuel capacity breaking distance records for aircraft in this class.

I felt I should weigh in here and ask if it's just me, or are people complaining about nothing? First of all, how many people here would regularly go IFR flying in hard IMC without GPS? I know it's possible, but if you knew GPS was down and had a trip planned, would you still go? Next part of the question would be, how often do you fly ground based approaches? This is a legitimate question because most of the airports in Canada that I would fly into are fairly small and do not have ILS or LOC approaches. That leaves me with RNAV which almost every airport has. If GPS was down in low IMC I would be on my way to my alternate anyway. I was a bit taken back when I started reading this thread as I was also surprised that Garmin would allow this lack of capability. And I will agree that it certainly is a lack of capability. But the more I thought about it the more I realized that it really wouldn't matter 99.9% of the time. Possibly 99.9999% of the time. It seems that there are some that are confused about what happens if you lose GPS. The auto pilot will still function in HDG and VS mode. Meaning you use that approach plate and get the heading that it tells you to fly on final. Use that little chart on the side of the approach plate that tells you what VS to descend at based on your GS. Then, just fly to the IF and intercept the LOC and Glidslope and plug those numbers into the A/P. Watch the needles and adjust a couple degrees right or left as needed for wind and 100ft/m up or down accordingly to stay on the glideslope. Am I missing something here? Or are there lots of people who can't do that? That's a legitimate question by the way. The way I see it, I wouldn't be flying in IMC without having done at least a few approaches completely by hand in the last couple months, nevermind with an A/P in manual mode. In my opinion, if you can't HAND FLY an ILS down to absolute minimums and execute a safe landing you should never be leaving and planning to arrive when the ceiling at your destination is forecast that low. Remember, forgetting about GPS, your auto pilot can fail at any time and you would be stuck hand flying it, so you better know how. In fact, (I'm just speculating from common sense here) I would venture to guess that the likelihood of your A/P malfunctioning AT SOME POINT during your flight is more likely than you losing GPS signal WHILE you are on an ILS approach. In response to one of the posts above regarding figuring out the winds if GPS failed during the approach; you would have to do that anyway if your A/P failed. That's what an overshoot is for and that's why you flight planned enough fuel for it. And yes, good thing we are not flying commercially. I doubt there are many Mooney pilots flying their Mooney for hire, and if they are, they have other auto pilot options. Or, they could use this one and just not be able to depart if GPS is down that day. While I agree it's a bit disappointing that we won't be getting THE WHOLE PACKAGE with capability to revert back to a more primitive system if the new state of the art one fails. BUT, I would offer a bet that out of all the people who install one of these systems, if I came back in 10 years to ask how many people were affected negatively by this I wouldn't even need to take off my mittens to count them. It's almost like we are more concerned that this A/P doesn't have absolutely all capabilities than we are with the likelihood that we may have to struggle to shoot an approach in manual mode because of a GPS outage. It's like an EGO thing rather than an actual problem. There are comedians that talk about this sort of thing... "In America they don't have real problems so they make ones up". First world problems I say. Just my two cents. Not trying to step on anyone.

I have an Ovation at John wayne. Feel free to PM me and we can meet. Nik edit: I believe at John Wayne we have around 15 to 20 models on the field, ranging from the basic M20C to the Acclaim type S. Just be warned, once you see 180knots consistently, its hard to go back.

You and I are exactly the same size. Here we are with three of us... all about the same size. Just stagger the front seats and there is plenty of room. The Mooney cabin is actually 1.5" wider than your 182. It's just the ceiling height that is much less, but not needed as you're just about sitting on the floor. Where are you located? Fill out your avatar with your location and one of us would be glad to take you for a ride in one. All Mooneys have the same dimensions for the front seats. Most Mooneys are difficult to put out of CG. The one exception might be the Mooney Rockets. But for most of ours, all you care about is gross weight, the CG will be fine.

I'm going to upgrade my panel at some point, and have arrived at my latest favorite configuration. This will be a complete R&R of the panel aside from the things that must remain for certification requirements. I've moved some standard things around, like trim indicators and light switches, to make for a better flow with the new configuration and to move everything to my right hand. For instance, I put the switches for taxi lights, landing lights and the boost pump together at the bottom of the panel for easier pre-landing cross check (all three switches are ON for landing in my personal procedures). The iPad mini on the right is representative, as it is intended to serve mainly as inflight entertainment for my primary passenger and I may use a larger iPad on a flexible mount to allow landscape orientation.There isn't a convenient place to stash an iPad that isn't in use, and attaching it to the panel keeps it from being loose in the cockpit. Plus it gives me another display option if Glennie isn't with me. I like the two 7" TXi displays as this configuration requires no backup instruments and helps clean the panel that much more. I want a dedicated engine display and I spent quite a while thinking about where to put the JPI 900 and decided on where I have it to provide an easy crosscheck in the (left hand) VFR pattern, which I fly about 50% of the time. Plus I already have an 830 in the airplane on that side of the panel so it will reduce the effort to move/extend the harnesses. I know, that would be the LEAST of my financial concern with this project, but it's something anyway. And I like the 900 over the 930. I also like redundancy, hence the comm panel and the transponder in the stack so that I don't have the single point failure of controlling remote units through the 750. Oh, the TKS panel (NOT FIKI) is currently installed in the radio stack so is oversized from what it needs to be in width, but I kept it's current dimensions for this exercise. I have witnessed some of you taking the spending of other people's money to a high art form, so for you this should be fun. Here's what I have so far, minus some obvious details, like the landing gear switch, that I haven't figured out how to replicate in Panel Planner. I'm really liking it... aside from my estimated cost of, well, a LOT. This will be going into an M20M, one of the original TLS birds. Thanks for your inputs. Cheers, Rick

When you have a GPS, you really don't need to know E from W

I would think 70,000 feet is a little more challenging on the body than 14,000.

After flying 1 soul on board for 300 out of 400hrs flight time in my father's 1966 M20 (when I was a kid), I now fly the single place M18 with no regrets. The reduced annual flying costs permit me to rent any twin most anytime I want and still come out money ahead. By the way, I have 2 spare M18 wig-wags if you want to install one (plus one for co-pilot) in your M20. My upgraded M-18 uses a gear indicator light (just like your M20). The wig-wag was introduced after Al Mooney did a gear up landing in an M18. Some older small aircraft engines lacked electrical systems, so the adapted automotive windshield wiper operates off of crankcase pressure. When you reduce power, it "wags" quicker just like the old automobile vacuum windshield wipers.

Hi @ZuluZulu I had LASIK for on my 40th birthday in 2004, for my 40th birthday present, and haven't looked back. Of course when I turned fifty-ish I had to get reading glasses. Nothing related to distance vision improvement is going to change that. Go for it. My distance vision is still 20/15 and 20/25. In the past I've done a lot of field work in tropical settings. That is why I really wanted to get rid of glasses- they always fog up in the jungle. My eye dr. just told me "Don't get stuck in the eye by a stick", which I successfully avoided- not for the lack of trying... The eye flap from LASIK can be lifted/torn by sharp impact to the eye of the kind that would probably not do a normal eye any good. Good luck.

Huh? If I am a customer and I am asked what capabilities do I want, then I reserve the right to assert what I want. And I want more when I am paying for the more premium product. Will I maybe buy anyway if it is missing some of my want list, considering other possible capabilities. Yes certainly I will weigh cost, benefit and capabilities and make my choice. You seem to be asserting that I am silly for even wishing for the capability of being able to track an ILS with a broken GPS, that this makes me either a picky American who is making up problems, or perhaps I am incapable pilot who is not sufficiently practiced and capable to hand fly my airplane. Huh - in that case forget the autopilot because I am a macho pilot capable to hand fly my airplane at all times. Yes I have had my autopilot misbehave while in IMC, and even during ILS approach (more than once) causing me to decide to disengage and hand fly. I have also had my GPS decide to go inop while over the tops and I confidently proceeded by VOR, and the S-Loc on the plate. My decision making as to if to launch with inop equipment is as you said - yes I would not launch with my GPS inop but I have had my GPS fail (in a strange way the GNS430 screen died but apparently was otherwise working...so I replaced it with a GTN650 rather than repair). Yes I can hand fly. Yes I know how to use my VOR equipment and to read the S-LOC line on my approach plates. But my decision making is different when I am shopping to buy new equipment - I am not asking myself just what I don't need - I am shopping to search for equipment with redundancies and with desirable failure modes. How about I call myself a well practiced pilot capable of hand flying in IMC AND a customer considering if to spend 20k+ to replace a currently function autopilot for one that may be more capable? I find it very appropriate to stomp my foot and ask why the GFC500 will not fly an ILS without a GPS in place. I might well buy the system anyway but....it is a slight knock off my desire to do so.

Everything said above regarding transition, useful loan and cabin comfort holds true. I purchased my 67 Mooney M20F two months prior to getting my PPL certificate. My insurance first year was in the $2400.00 range because I did not have a complex endorsement or PPL yet. I have since finished my transition training and had my PPL since Feb 2018. My insurance this year is in the $1,600.00 range. I LOVE MY PLANE. Fly the numbers and you can just about put it down anywhere you want. I am 6'3 and 230 Lbs. and I can stretch out fully in cruise without issues. Since you are local (I'm in Santa Monica) I suggest getting with Don Kaye or Mike Jesch for your transition training. You can find their contact info online at www.TheMooneyFlyer.com Hope you join us as a Mooniac and if you do please join the West Coast Mooney Clun here at MooneySpace. Good Luck #MooneyZoom

"I'm not sure any Mooney model would do much better. Have I mentioned that I'm really liking this airplane ?? " 17-20 NMPG is significantly more efficient than 11-13 NMPG. It may not be the way some wish it were, but that math doesnt care. here is the log sheet from the KISM-KAXH trip. It was 43.8 gallons and 6.4 hobbs hours Flying time was around 6.1. Again, this was done at 2700' into an average headwind with the throttle pulled back. Not the most efficient way to fly but stronger headwinds aloft forced it.

Should be but unfortunately it’s not. The internet empowers insecure haters and brings out their real colors. And these types band together. Misery does love company. Expressing dissenting opinions is not allowed and risks being called a troll, a fool and stupid. But that doesn't bother me. Their opinion is not important to me. As I said earlier I’m in the process of redoing my panel and was looking at options from Garmin and Avidyne. Someone said that Avidyne is privately funded which is something I didn’t know and I thanked him for the info. I said not knowing their financial health I would be nervous investing all the major money it takes to redo a panel. They are here today and may be gone tomorrow. This is how I feel and it’s my opinion and decision. One of these insecure types apparently got a bad case of hives when I said that and jumped to call me stupid and to look up softbank. Well I did. May I inform the “gentleman” that softbank is a publically traded company and not privately funded. Big difference. But I will refrain from calling him and his comments stupid, as he did, because I will not descend to his level and that of his pals. In any case thank you to all who share information. I have made my decisions and can’t wait to start. Hopefully soon.

From the FAQ page of the Skybeacon.

That is most likely going to be the target. Will update as soon as I have some dates.

Hah, you're right! It actually does not, but it's on the same page under "Descent" in my POH, so when I made up my plastic laminated checklists, I accidentally included it in the landing list. By now, it's part of my normal flow (going left to right, then down from the throttle), so I guess I have to decide whether to remove it now.

Why are you closing cowl flaps during GUMPS or prior to landing? Does your POH say to do that? Cowl flaps should be open at all time during ground ops. There is no utility in closing them in the pattern only to open them again after touchdown.

That’s funny, I too am half Russian, paternal grandparents came as young children before the revolution when the Czar still ruled. That grandfather served with the U.S. Army in World War I as a machine gunner and survived to come back to die in the great flu epidemic of 1917 -1918.

Jose @Piloto Monroy has been pioneering a budget alternative to that involving some piss, wd40, and some duct tape.

I transitioned from a C182 when I bought my J. I found the transition to the Mooney to be no more difficult than when I transitioned from a C172 to the C182. I think the Mooney is a delight to fly and I feel that it is easier to land than the Cessnas - at least I think my Mooney landings are more consistent than my Cessna landings.

Weighing is already planned and if the CG is accurate, remove some of the lead weight in the nose.

Get a ride in a Mooney!!! Lots of great people will be happy to give a ride. Pay attention to getting in and out, it’s the one thing that’s not been mentioned. The 182 has 2 great big doors, we have one door and it’s on the passenger side, after climbing onto the wing you get to move over to the left seat. Lawrence

Every plane is different. And especially for Mooney's, before you buy one ask about the useful load. It will vary from under 900 lbs to just over 1000 lbs. However, for my J model (the best model to get) I usually have 8 lbs of "stuff" in the baggage compartment and 4 lbs on the hat shelf. With that and 500 lbs in the front seat I could have 58 gallons or less of fuel on board and still be within the CG limits. If I had more than that then I would be out of forward CG if both of us had our seats all the way forward. As a reference point, I always have my seat all the way forward when I'm flying. But keep in mind that you'll rarely have that much fuel on board. 50 gallons is enough fuel for me to fly from Seattle to San Francisco and land with over an hour of fuel. You mention a 252. Where do you live that you think you need the turbocharger?

You’ll fit, but you’ll be tightly enveloped by the left side. If you have your friend next to you, you’ll need to really like him cuz you’ll be rubbing shoulders for the whole short trip. Short? Because depending on the model you’ll likely be at max gross with less than full fuel. This is literally the only challenge in owning a Mooney; useful load and interior comfort. As far as everything else is concerned, you can’t do better. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

First, welcome! Is a Mooney to much airplane for me? - I bought a J model with a PPL and 80 hours. Got my IR training and checkride in it, working on Commercial now. A Mooney is a predicable machine that responds quickly to pilot input. Coming from a C172, the transition took about 10 hours for a complex sign-off...mostly for the insurance requirements. How tricky are they to land? - The J lands at almost the same speed as a C172 w/ no flaps. It's the sight picture of the low-wing that is harder to get used to. Landing isn't tricky, but it's very speed dependend...come in fast and you'll float and land long...come in on the numbers, and you'll land no problem. How hard will it be to transition to? -I found it relatively easy coming from a C172 with a fixed prop. Remember flows, checklists, and the gear...always remember the gear. How reliable are they? - In my 2 years of ownership, I haven't had any major issues. Your results may vary based on previous history and storage location of the airplane you purchase. How safe are they? - One of the main reasons I bought a Mooney. It's a steel roll-cage surrounded by an airplane. If you look at NTSB reports, Mooney has a better ratio of injury vs. fatal per accident. How expensive to insure and maintain? - Varies by model, year, previous maintenance, etc.

Byron has answered the 1/4" decision before. He and Becca race their J and he'd like more protection in the event of a bird strike. (I opted for the pre assembled vent window in the door. Great option, particularly with Kool Scoops.

Getting ready for the work day. Backpack - check. Coffee - check.

I'm the proud owner of this Mite...