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I have heard the Above Statement for Years. “Dont grease your Prop, an it won’t Leak” If care is taken when lubricating a Hartzell Propeller, you will have no Problems. The Hartzell uses a Quad-Seal that Ride on a Teflon strip on the blade for a sealing surface. One or Both have been Compromised with this Propeller. It happens over time. With the Above Propeller there is an Option to use a different type of seal vs the Quad Seal as it is very hard on the Teflon. That seal is the C3317-340-8. Be sure an ask for that seal when your Propeller is being repaired, Iys the Same Oring used in the TurboProps, an it works very well. I would opt for the reseal on this Propeller vs the O/H. There is about a $1500-$1800 dollar difference between the two.

I have been a BIG fan of Dawley, but they are not the same company as far as service. I've heard a bunch of horror stories getting work done in a timely manner. Good News on Rocket Engineering. They did some tech support for my FBO during my engine OH, free!! Tom

This is a heads up for any rocket engineering STC owners that may be curious if they currently have a “supported” STC. my Missile is in for annual- and the MSC found a crack in the exhaust stack- so they removed it. After they removed the stack- they found that the muffler was completely trashed on the inside... uh oh. So I was more than a bit worried that the customs fabricated exhaust system would no longer be supported by rocket- particularly because they only did 43 or so rocket conversions... turns out my worries were unfounded. We boxed up the exhaust and sent it to rocket- the new system should be back early next week- totally rebuilt by rocket- and in brand new condition. Happy to know that Rocket continues to stand by their STC!

Thank you for all the input you gave me on my dilemma on curing the inadequacies of the value guides. I think this is what I am going to do. Please let me know if you think I am on the right path. I am going to use my old MAPA format but instead of talking about a certain topic each month, I will just give some general information about buying, selling and pricing/appraising Mooneys. I will separate the data by model (pre-201, M20J, M20K, etc...). I am going to give it away in a PDF format. The only requirement I will have of the donee is that I get his or her name, valid email address and phone number and a little note about what they expect to do with the data (use for buying, use for selling, use for insurance, use for just 'hey, I like stuff like this'). If the data is being used to purchase or sell a plane, I will ask the user of the guide to provide me with actual sales data after the sale is completed so that I may keep a confidential record of sales that happen outside of my business. I will ask the user to donate to me voluntarily if the user finds the data useful. If the user doesn't want to donate, no harm, no foul, but if the guide helps them make a wise $50,000 or $100,000 or $200,000 decision, perhaps they can make a small contribution to me for the time and effort put in to produce and keep the data current. I will, of course, identify myself in the guide and explain what my services are with respect to buying and brokering Mooneys. This plan will not likely fix Bluebook or VREF and it will not likely have a real fix to the appraisal points used by lenders (who are shackled to BB and VREF). However, having the data available and a reasoned approach to how to add properly give credit for equipment in a plane may eventually have an affect on both lenders and existing value guides. Does this sound like the proper strategy? Does anyone else have any ideas or want to add to this plan? Thanks again for all the input to date. It has been a good learning experience for me. Jimmy

A few of us got together at KCGE for lunch. Never been to the airport but I know Hunter Fooks recommended the restaurant. We had people come in from as far as Linden (but not the guy from Linden we all know and love). My wife is a tough critic of crab cakes and I am pleased to report she uttered “these are the best crap cakes I have ever eaten”. And this comes from a lady who always orders crab cakes when we fly to an airport in the Chesapeake area. Thank you Hunter for the recommendation. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

No Sir. The grinding is done per the Hartzell O/H Manuel weather it needs it or not.

Exactly! So if your prop needs new seals, why OH and grind away on the blade faces??? Do you replace the timing belt on your car when changing the oil? Do you tear down and rebuild your porch when working on the roof? If work needs to be done, do it, but no need to do additional work "just because."

simple fact, airplanes are tiny, it's hard to see a Cessna 1 mile in front of you. USE ALL available resources once you get a traffic helper( adsb, tcas, whatever ) you finally realize how much traffic you don't see, scary.

I believe this to be a failure at all levels, manufacturing, lawyers, regulations and the current owners community. GA is now for the elite, where as back in the 70's you just needed to be ok. I cry inside whenever I hear someone brag about how expensive something was and how others shouldn't be here if they can't or won't spend similar amounts. when I look at pictures of GA gatherings you know what I see, 50+ year old men. yes there's always the odd ball woman or youngun but for the most part its an aging higher income group from a past generation. Today it's harder to get to the higher relative income. Someone mentioned housing in California, a buddy owns a million dollar townhome in one of those places but makes less than me, how's he supposed to own an aircraft ? people start trying to save for retirement the instant they turn 18, what sense would it ever make to buy a limited use item which if you're lucky doesn't self destruct due to a few mos of disuse. Really a hard sale. As mentioned earlier yeah, a lux car or Rv can be had for similar prices but those things have 1000x more utility, comfort and durability. I LOVE flying, LOVE being an owner but honestly, the writing is probably on the wall.

Same here. As an A&P, I did it that way for 25 years and probably a hundred prop greasing/annual inspections (in the shops where I've worked and on my own airplanes) but was told here that I would blow the seals out of my prop if I did it that way. It seems like the hub corrosion in the pictures, above, could've been avoided by pumping in fresh, clean grease. It makes me wonder if Hartzell wants us to leave old, contaminated grease in our hubs so that they can sell more of them.

My case is different in that my airplane is down for over 3 months, but I did call XM and had the service suspended until the plane is back in the air. No problem.

Step 13). Use caution the first time releasing the flaps while in flight... On the ground, the return is set for 10 seconds... the forces of air pressure on the flaps may cut that time down significantly... You will want to know how much before your first real go around... My old M20C got its flap return rate set based on something other than the MM... probably based on normal progression time... but done without any inflight forces. The first time being used, they just about snapped back in a couple of seconds... You really feel the loss of lift in that case... PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... Best regards, -a-

Kay’s at the airport is a fantastic place and the locals support it even better than transient pilots. The lobster omlets are also really good from what I hear. I’m sorry I couldn’t meet up with the gang today. hopefully next time. -Seth

sorry i missed you all

My flaps have three markings: Up, Takeoff (15° per the Type Certificate), and Landing (33° per the TCDS). I do not operate them above Vfe, the white stripe on my ASI (125 mph for my C). Seems like long bodies have a nice, high gear speed, something like 140 KIAS, so they can function much like a speed brake. Check the POH for the plane you will be flying, though, as my Vg = 120 mph . . .

Lunch sounded good, the dessert menu on the wall is great! Nice looking airplanes parked outside, too. If only there were airport restaurants here in LA . . . . .

With my M20C, my approach was to buy the plane with the best panel possible and then make a few small improvements. You found the picture of the panel I started with in the M20C. The approach with the M20K was a bit different. I considered it my "forever" airplane and therefore was a little more willing to spend to upgrade it. But still, I looked for an airplane with the correct autopilot as that's the most expensive bit to upgrade. So with the right autopilot, I set about upgrading the rest of it. I started with this... And went to this... It was more than a year of researching, planning, searching, acquiring the components, and then about a month to get it all done. But I'm very happy with the result and have thoroughly enjoyed flying it for almost 400 hours now.

I did! I also forwarded the link to my IA.

Also, I don't think the factories are state of the art. Many parts are fabricated using outdated labor intensive techniques. Someone needs a truly automated factory to get the cost down and "mass" produce airplanes. Also, the cost of acquiring a PPL is prohibitive partly due to the way the schools go about it. The school model is obsolete. Innovate. Disrupt. If you need pilots to buy your planes, make them. Train them yourself. Train them in the airplane you want to sell them and create an affordable airplane. All this takes significant investment and at this point may be moot since passenger drones are looking pretty good to disrupt general aviation.

I have heard the same thing about greasing a propeller. An during normal maintenance just a few pumps is all that is needed. And Yes, you can Mix #5 with #6 an Long as you don’t fly in temps of -40. Where you run into trouble greasing a aluminum hub Prop is #1 Putting the grease in two fast #2 Not cleaning the hole out that the grease fitting was removed from. Putting grease in to fast will fill the center section of the hub, an pumping the grease in to fast will do the same thing. A basic grease gun will put the grease in the Propeller, faster than it can come out the other side. Yes, We deal with props with grease in the wrong places all the time. BUT!! There is a known problem with the new Aeroshell 6, this stuff is breaking down to a light oil, an exiting the propeller, leaving no lubricant behind to speak of. Will say this in Closing. I don’t think Cont or Lycoming would tell you to only use a little oil. Or Airhawk would tell you to use a little Air. If you scrap Bearings, Hub or a whole Propeller from not greasing it properly you won’t be going to Autozone to get new parts.

Thanks Greg. Mission accomplished. The BK numbers exists as old stock and I found one for a couple of dollars.

John, Jimmy Garrison at All American in Spring Branch TX probably has more Mooneys than you'll find in Kerrville! At any given time they'll have a wide range of models at a range of price points. Well worth a call. https://www.allamericanaircraft.com/default.htm

I'm open minded to other airplanes but Mooney is definitely the top of the list for me. I'm not against sharing either however, we are currently pondering a geographic change pretty seriously so a partnership might be problematic. A flying club with a Mooney would be awesome. I currently live east of Austin outside of Elgin. I'm close to Taylor (T74) and Giddings (GYB).

I think Cody has proven his worth many times over to this forum. Now if only we could get a professional on each subject matter, this forum would become a book! Thanks for your service, Cody. Many of us who lurk a lot still learn from your past words.

Cody Like Clarence, I was originally trained to pump until grease came out the opposite fitting. Then, Hartzell said don’t do that with aluminum hub props, pump only a few ounces, not to exceed some number of pumps (the number escapes me at the moment). This is because pumping more might force grease into the dry cavity in the prop and this can affect normal operation. I assume purging is similar...pump until old grease is out. Do you find grease in props where it should not be? I paid the price doing an annual years ago where I pumped until it came out the cross port and the owner checked with Hartzell who said the prop needed tear down....so the annual became a freebie. I’ve been really cautious about following the manual ever since. Also, my understanding was the aero shell 5 can be mixed with 6, as long as you follow the temperature restriction. So, the ultimate question is....is it better to purge all the grease and risk the grease going in the wrong part of the prop or better to fly with a mix of aero shell 5 and 6? By the way, thank you for taking the time to educate us. These props are expensive and small missteps can cost us. I too understood that the overhaul requires grinding, which eats into blade life. Rob

I need all the help I can get. So I happily pay for XM, ADSB install, and of course WeatherSpork, year round. Compared to the total cost of aviation these are the cheapest components.

You are correct, just remove the fitting an grease. Yes you can purge the #6 out of the Propeller with #5 in the Field, no propshop interaction needed. When I’m back in the shop I will get the information about blade grinding for you.

Cancel? 60s on 6 is broadcast all year round.

Its on the FAA site..

Leaning is based on MP... J MP fades with altitude... so leaning is common during climb above 3k’... Climbing in a NA plane ROP, is often done in a range from 2-300°F ROP... 100°F ROP in a climb at high power doesn't Sound accurate... What does your POH say for climb power settings? Is it confusing? Transition Training can potentially save you a lot of money.... Flying in the flight levels can be really tough on the machinery and human body with just a simple mid-judgement... PP thoughts only, not a TC’d engine operator... Best regards, -a-

RAJAY just signed up the first M20J owner for a turbo normalized installation. We still at least two more owners to sign up before we can begin production. If you are interested in being put on the wait list, please contact us at sales@rajay.aero. Kit price is estimated to be somewhere around the $25K to $28K plus installation

Sweet! Thanks for sharing. I've been wishing for a site like this

This Propeller had 427hrs SMOH. Operator did not Grease his Propellers because his thinking was “propshop greased it”. At 425hrs the Propeller started to self destruct from steel on steel actuation. The Grease that remained inside this Propeller was like Valve Grinding Compound. 75E3FA8D-A140-403A-8657-B1533679363D.MOV

Taken from the thread above... The next thing is to ensure the system is properly bled (this is where most fail). My "12 step" program is as follows and is based on starting with the flap system drained of fluid: 1) Loosen the set screw (as I've already stated above). 2) Ensure that the small lever in the "flaps up" position (this is to say needle valve off the cam lobe that opens the check valve). 3) Remove the plastic blocking plate from the T shaped AN fitting on the ACTUATOR (lowest point in the system) and attach a pressure pot filled with the specified hydraulic fluid. 4) Attach an AN fitting with a 2' hose to the reservoir to act as an overflow. Position the hose over a catch can (bucket). 5) Actuate the pressure pot and watch for fluid at the overflow hose at the front of the aircraft. 6) When you detect fluid coming through the overflow, cut the pressure from the the pressure pot. 7) Plug overflow hose and reservoir vent. 8) This is where it gets messy... remove pressure pot fitting and replace the blocking plate. 9) Remove whatever you used to block the reservoir vent plug (I've used chewing gum). Leave the overflow plug in place. 10) Select "down" position on flap lever and have someone simultaneously pump the the handle (slowly) while you back off the plastic plate on the aforementioned actuator "T fitting" just enough to allow it to leak. You should get fluid only, but possibly a small amount of air and then fluid. Have your pump person maintain gentle pressure. Make sure to only have the bottom of the system open under positive pressure from the pump person. Close it under pressure. If the person pulls up on the flap pump and the system is open it will draw air into the system... 11) With T fitting secure, pump the flaps down. Remove overflow hose, retract flaps and be ready with a rag to catch any overflow. If fluid level is too high in the reservoir , siphon a bit off with a drinking straw (use your thumb not your mouth). 12) close up the system, adjust flap retraction speed set screw so that the flaps take apprx 10 secs to retract, ops check, button everything up and go fly...

If the check valve is in the flaps up position, the back filling the system from the bottom should fill everything. I have only worked on a couple of these systems, but every one of them took exactly (and I mean exactly) 4 pumps from no flaps to full flaps. 1, 2, 3, 4, hydrolock...

^^^^^^^This.... If the search function worked better, I'd link a step by step write up, but I can't find it as of yet.

Here is the way I have done mine in the past Remove the filler plug on the reservoir on the firewall and screw in a barb fitting for ¼” hose, fold the vent line on top the reservoir over and zip tie together (pinch it off), attach a 48” length of clear hose to the barb and run the other end of the hose into catch can, let it hang off to the side of the aircraft and sit the catch can on the ground. Get a hose fitting to go one the “T” at the flap cylinder (see photo, only the black pieces will be used). Attach a hose from the pressure pot to the tapered hose fitting, force fluid through the system from the bottom, you can see the fluid coming out of the reservoir through the clear hose while under plane, when all the air bubbles are gone from the clear hose from the reservoir you are ready to seal the system back up, have the cap ready to be installed as soon as the hose fitting is removed from the “T”. Allow the fluid to drain from the clear hose and then pump the flaps down, while there is pressure on the system loosen the nut on the “T” and allow any air to bleed out, this also lowers the fluid level in the reservoir so the barbed fitting can be removed, recheck the fluid level and go fly

Yes, once you actually get it to pump, then you can bleed it forward from the back cylinder like the book says. It will slowly get better over time, but to be signed off I would want it to be 5 pumps or less to get full extension.

Qantas has the non stop A380 flight into DFW. I know there are many Mspacer’s that live within an hour flight of Dallas. Caravan some Aussies to Wisconsin from Dallas ?!

I've been using this mobile site alot recently. Great for finding the nearest GA airport to any given land destination. https://wheresmyairport.com/ Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

I frequent a ski area in the winter and never bother with the expensive heated hangar. I just park in reach of electricity and plug in my engine tannis heater. If you don't have that they'll pre-heat your engine on the ramp for you for much less than a night in the hangar. In my mind, the only thing to push me into a hangar is the threat of hail. Snow isn't bad if it's cold powder. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mike Sounds good. How many people are we talking about? Maybe when they show up we can coordinate flying them around. I would let them fly left seat if they are good experienced Mooney pilots which I'm sure they are. A little coordination and a couple of 3 to 4 hour flights and they can be almost anywhere in the USA flying themselves but with the owner in the right seat assisting.

To answer my own question, ended up going to Kurt at Expert Aircraft (F70) since they had lots of experience installing the Gee-Bee kits. I have noting but good things to say about Kurt and the kit. Installation was fast, great guys (I ended up spending the whole day hanging out at the airport) and on my flight home my CHTs were easily 20 deg cooler. With the amount of gas I’m going to save not having to go extra rich with the crappy baffles this will pay for itself quickly!

Well, finally some 'progress'. The case and crank had to be machined due to being out of spec, they finally came back and the shop found extensive issues(pistons, oil pump housing, etc) which appeared to be due to metal that was thrown from when the cam failed a few hundred hours ago(before I owned it) and wasn't resolved at that time. Of course, they discover(or mention) this after the case and other work was done so it's now a little late to just upgrade to a shiny new reman with split mags and roller tappets. So I'm upgrading to a full overhaul since the required repairs(mine+insurance) is 2/3 of the overhaul. Now 3-4 more weeks and maybe I'll have an engine and the rest of the work can begin.

I've heard people say downright hateful things about the guy. I don't care how he is as a person, he shot down Germans and put his life on the line repeatedly for our way of life. I deal with high performing individuals frequently and I think being a mean SOB is a common trait among people who are good in their field.

I've heard the same thing, but never met him in person. I met Bob Hoover, though. He was one of the nicest people I've ever met in aviation.

I flew with General Yeager in his Husky to an invited flyin to Hiltons Ranch strip south of Reno.Insurence say General Y at 87 is nuts and needs a qualified Husky pilot along for th

Here you go