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Andy, Thanks for clarifying this for me! I couldn't find anything on their site about GS on the G5. However, I should have been more specific in my post. The G5, to my knowledge, will not display GS info from anything other than a GNS or GTN series. The Aspen will accept GS input from older equipment, like my KX-155, which makes it work for me. I'm on the fence about just adding a GTN650 and then I could use the G5's. I so still like the Aspen better. But I think I would need to replace the sheet metal on the pilot side of my 1968 M20F to get the Aspen to fit. I wish Garmin, like Apple, wasn't becoming so proprietary in their products. As an example, I have the GDL 52 portable ADSB/Sirius XM/ADHRS receiver. It is amazing but only works with Garmin portables and the Garmin Pilot App. You'd think a more open architecture would sell more products.

We left 12” of fresh snow on top of old melted down 6” of snow this morning for Spruce Creek Florida. I asked the wife as we were driving out our driveway at 5:30 AM if she was sure she wanted to do this and got an emphatic YES. It was 16 degrees F and forecast for tomorrow night down around 6 degrees. I took a shot of my home town as the sun was rising. I love my Rocket and a bit of tailwind, seeing 258 knots GS for a bit with a 20 degree crab. Have to wonder what we would have seen if going directly with the wind? Total flight time from the U.P. of Michigan to just south of Daytona Beach: under 5 hours. The new G5 was awesome too! The flannel shirt was the first thing shed when the door was opened arriving at our taxiway home (75 degrees). Tom

FINALLY....after years of pursuit, Oceano Airport now has an operational AWOS3! A huge thank you to San Luis Obispo Airports Kevin Beauman and Criag Piper for making this dream come true! 118.375 and 805 489-1305 are the access numbers. Hooray!!!!!

I have no idea what it costs to run/maintain Mooneyspace, but my guess would be that if even half of us donated $10 per year, you wouldn't have any problems. Come on guys, we all benefit a lot more than that from having MS.

The avionics shop finished my new panel today, so as soon as the weather clears here on the west coast I can go pick her up. New GTN 750, GTX 345 and GPSS. Let the learning begin. Pritch

My advice is; take your time. Don’t go overboard until you know whether the plane is something you will hang onto for a while. For me, the first few years, it was doing minimal upgrades to address aging avionics (replaced a KX-170B) or added safety items (engine analyzer, fuel totalizer) and that was it. I didn’t have a reliable autopilot for the first 7 years of ownership - and I was flying IFR all the time. The STEC was the first major upgrade I did. Then for the next 14 years, it was keeping the steam and old avionics running. In 2012, I was at a crossroads. Sell what I had and buy something different or upgrade a plane I was knew was solid and for my kind of flying served my needs? By then I had saved enough to do a pretty aggressive upgrade. Develop a plan based on your genuine needs followed by your wants. If you are IFR, concentrate on the basics to do that. With the new autopilots on the horizon, I would hold off for a year or two and let them roll out. By then you should have been able to save up for the autopilot upgrade. It’s not a race... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Naw, aspen is just making it all up to wind up Peter.

That's just it. I had an 830 but sold it cause the 900 is primary with fuel and is better. I just don't want to keep going in circles and I keep learning after the fact no matter how much I read there is always more to find out. I think I am going to pull the Millennial Card. "has to be somebodies fault it can't be mine" So I am picking @Marauder and @GSXRPilot. They have some really nice panels so I think they should sponsor my panel. Fair is Fair... LMAO I'll get there but some of this is just frustrating. Flying is supposed to be fun and lately it has become a Pain in my butt.

Marine seals are the best, you will not sink when you ditch. José

I was hoping their single screen G500TXi would be the competitor, but it came in at a price that is too high for many of us in the CB camp. Perhaps the G3X will be blessed for us this summer since Dynon is now a player in this space. Aspen can remain competitive with their Pro unit using newer/faster/better processor and screen but retaining their overall form factor. A larger unit with the same design would be nice too, IMO. They might have to lower the price to fit below Dynon, though, Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

I was just getting ready to make a new topic myself titled, "My $8 Door Seal". It works great, certainly more quiet than the old factory one I pulled out. With two packages, you have enough to do the baggage door, too. I really wanted to get the Bob Fields inflatable for about $450, and I still may do that. The Aircraft Door Seal is pricy and gets some average to poor reviews here. The GeeBee price was never specified, which annoyed me, but my guess is between $250-300 based upon the Bonanza ones out there by them. For my $16, I'll replace it every few years if necessary or replace it with something else and never look back. @Piloto advocated for something very similar, but it doesn't seem to be available anymore. I used his original idea and found this stuff, which may be even better.

It is clear what Garmin is doing. They introduced the G5 to take on Aspen, Sandia and L-3 and anyone else who sells lower cost partial solutions. Aspen responded with the E5 (ever wonder why they selected "E5" as the name?) to counter the G5. The main difference is that if you can't afford a full blown Aspen PFD, this is a stepping stone program to allow you to purchase features later on. Garmin doesn't have an upgrade path. It is not in their best interest to add too much to the G5 functionality because it could impact their G500 sales. Competition is good for us...

All righty, my Trillian is down for upgrades, but it looks like I can make it to the meet in some kind of airplane on the 14th! Looking forward to seeing you all.

Hi Mark, I had an O3 with TKS and I had a LOT of trouble with my system at one point, so I now consider myself an "amateur/expert" with the system. I spent many days with the boys at CAV Aero troubleshooting, etc. The issues I had have nothing directly to do with your question, but because of my issues, I learned a lot about how the system is supposed to work (and does work, when everything is actually working). The short answer to your question is, what you were seeing is completely normal. You stated that you were running the system in the "Normal" mode, and then you saw the ice as depicted in your pics. I would say two things to this: One, you were apparently in icing conditions that were just a little bit more than "Normal" mode could handle as far as keeping ice from forming at all. And two, the system is designed to actually ALLOW some amount of ice to accumulate, and then let aerodynamic forces peel off the build-up of ice. So the irony is, what you really needed was some more ice! :-) I would be willing to bet you that if you continued to accumulate ice with the system right where you had it (i.e. "Normal") and just allowed the ice to build up more, it would have peeled off with no trouble. You could also try going to the "De-ice" or "Max" mode, and see if that wouldn't clear things faster. It usually does unless you're in really bad icing conditions. I'm not advocating that you should cruise in icing conditions just to see if I am correct or not. I'm just telling you my experience both personally in the plane as well as my discussions with CAV. Bottom line is, the amount of ice that you were showing there is trivial (as icing goes), but not so much so that you should just cruise in it. Hope that helps, (another) Mark

Well , I am happy to say , I have put 50 hours on it the last two months , and it hasn't skipped a beat.... I will be taking it to Sun-n-fun if anyone wants to check it out....

My approach was this... 1. Don't do anything that you'll have to do again later. 2. Do the most important things first. For me this would mean buying the EDM900 and installing it yourself under the supervision of an A&P. I wouldn't go less than the EDM900 because when the stock gauges go, you'll have to do it anyway. That violates rule number one. And based on rule number two, the most important thing will be to protect the most expensive component of your airplane and that is the engine. I want to fly and fly as much as I can. I know that for me, having a good engine monitor with data logging, will help me treat my engine right and prolong it's life. And prolonging the life of my engine is the first and most important step to saving money in aviation. Everything else is nice to have... and granted some of it is VERY nice to have. But the engine monitor will pay dividends on the next hour of flight time. And while it's a labor intensive install, it's about the easiest candidate for an owner install. That's my $0.02

I’d find another Avioncs guy! or start on the project yourself. All of the installation instructions make sense to normal people. Then work alongside with an A&P. None of it is a major alteration. The only thing I have a hard time with is the comm wires comm 1&2 Hi and LO, mic, transmit blah blah. Everyone I’ve talked to has the same issue. Older equipment is easier. Everything else is identified well. I’ve done several radio installs, and a few gtn installs. While l have my IA, it’s not much harder when wiring up a car stereo with multiple components or networks. I’m sure your Truck harnesses are more complex. Just keep your standard really high, and use real aircraft wire, terminals, and read the manual. -Matt

Well folks, Don Maxwell stepped forward and volunteered to pay the restaurant's fee for us to eat in Delta Charlie's, so we are back on with the original plan. I was ticked off enough at them to have done it the other way, but Don convinced me everyone would enjoy it more if I didn't let my ego overrun common sense. I did tell the restaurant I would call them on Friday and update the projected estimate, so if you can remember, post again as early on Friday as you can whether you think you will be able to come. Pray for good weather and hope to see you then.

Was that momentary? Or did it last? Is it there while on the ground? M20Cs always smell like fuel.... (not really) Until they get loved by a new owner.... Or they get into a forever plane ownership situation... Fuel aromas come from several places... Most, are noticeable when you open the cockpit door... By the time you smell the aroma twice.... there is a blue stain somewhere recording it’s location... Turbulence can be a factor... so can steep turns... so can full fuel tanks... Lift the rug under the back seat. This is the place my M20C liked to store excess fuel... the brown rug was slowly turning blue. There are two simple locations that like to leak. Easy to fix... Fuel sender seals... fuel line rubber hose connector... Less simple places may be related to fuel tank sealant... how old is your sealant? These are old rubber or cork materials that have been updated in design since the early years... A really interesting learning experience comes from removing the interior panels at the wings... You will find some things that can be cleaned, updated, or sealed.... There are no normal fuel smells when flying an M20C... PP thoughts only, My M20C was unloved for years before I got her... Best regards, -a-

Food is Tri-Tip, Chili and salad along with drinks and dessert! Mooney-Style!

Flush mount is the correct answer for all of it...

Don't forget to flush mount.......

What started out as a small cookout at the airport has turned into an annual event so mark May 26th on your calendar and plan on joining us in Quakertown again this year! we like to keep it simple so we will have the cookout basics and ask everyone bring something to share. as we get closer to the date I will give updates and if you know you are bringing a specific dish you can reply here to let others know what you are bringing. we are looking forward to seeing everyone and their families. Brian and Pankey

Yes I didn’t have an HSI in my airplane until last year. Let’s just say that flying an approach down to minimums with unknown winds or changing winds is a lot easier now than it was before. I’m not as Rusty flying IFR than I used to be.. In fact now I will fly a lot worse stuff now then I would before because I have a real IFR GPS and some other stuff, such as an HSI. . I paid for that and I got it . I still wouldn’t rip it out and exchange for something that looks a lot prettier but has less functionality. Yes you can do approach with any old equipment but why upgrade something thats not really an upgrade ? It looks cool I get that it’s glass and it’s probably more reliable I get that too but I don’t get is the DG with a course pointer.

Does not look right for your vintage. While they are typically not symmetrical and no two seem to look alike, yours seems quite off. As RL suggested, yours may not be closing all the way. Suggest a gear swing.

My big want is IAS climbs. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

The co-pilots side door must close befor the other one so they will overlap. The lever arm on the co-pilots side is shorter so it closes first. The pilots door has a longer arm so it opens further.

Only sort of... they don’t both normally go straight up and down... There are a few threads around that cover this. Good luck finding the explanation from the thousands of similar posts... Got any pics while up on jacks? Flush while closed is what they are set for... Best regards, -a-

Craig. I mentioned cleaning out the holes in the rails back on page two. No one responded and that surprised me as I thought it very worth while. So again, I dug debris from the locator holes in my old E model as I was having trouble positively locating the seat. If the pins are only partially submerged in the hole they can easily cam their way back out with just a little extra for and aft load. (The ends of the locator pins have a small lead on them which only gets larger with wear). Make sure there is no dirt build up in these holes or as Craig found out a small pebble that prevents FULL engagement of the pins!

I try to prime the system before I enter the clouds, if at all possible. If not, I start the system on high until the wings are coated, then I back it down to normal depending on the rate of accumulation. It takes about 8-10 minutes for all the panels to start weeping on my Acclaim.

It has a cdi display that looks like a 209/106. Never said it was an hsi.

I guess I’ll try Andy’s solution since I sent money to chocks for one of his last year and can’t get him to reply to me since..... just a warning to others.

I had the system primed, system was running on "Normal" and seemed to be flowing properly before entering icing conditions at least 5 minutes before entering icing conditions in addition to the priming I did why taxing on ground. I wasn't using it to shed ice that had built up, have experimented with that in the past, just for fun in easy to escape icing conditions, doesn't really work. Maybe a gallon of the fluid was a year old, just put in 5 gallons of fresh brand new stuff a couple of weeks before. Again just the leading edge was built up barely. The airplane is filthy, it gets used a lot, maybe there were bugs that allowed ice to accumulate build up. Just speculating. I will contact the CAV guys and let everybody know what they say.

Thanks all

I think Scott’s original thought on this WAS NOT a full blown “aviation themed” reality show but seeing some aviation benefits shown in existing or new reality shows where the entire theme wasn’t aviation. Frankly, I think this would bring interest to GA without the entire show needing to be filled aviation footage. I think the concept had merit if a producer is willing and open to the idea. Tom

Love to, However, my airplane’s pieces are not exactly in flying formation yet. Might grab something else and head up. Up to 40+ airplanes!! That’s almost old school numbers!! -Matt

Non turbo, 17,000 feet and decent climb rate do not go together. A non turbo will go to 17,000, but it will take quite a bit of time to do it.

One other note. Houston Tank Specialists will be providing dessert for the assembled group.

You have asked the “million dollar question” or at least the “buying the airplane all over again” question. Two years ago I faced a similar dilemma. My airplane had original paint, interior, glass, lots of cracked plastics, legacy avionics and was due for a prop overhaul and balancing. Plus the 2020 deadline needed to be addressed. Financially, it made no sense whatsoever to spend that kind of money on the airplane. My Dad would have told me to sell the airplane and then buy a different one with newer paint, interior, avionics and lower engine time. Even if I had to spend a bit more, I would be ahead of the game. Actually, he would have said “sell that stupid thing and get a better airplane”. Then he died and I found that it isn’t easy to lose your Dad and then sell the last airplane that you owned together and the last airplane that he would ever fly. I decided for non-financial reasons to spend the money and fix up the airplane. New paint, leather interior, tinted glass with UV screen, fiberglass fairings, overhauled and dynamically balanced prop, new seat rails, etc. My legacy gear all works so I see no reason to change it. I don’t feel that I need the “latest and greatest” to enjoy my airplane. I use an iFly 740 portable WAAS GPS and I added a Lynx 9000 NGT for ADS-B in and out. Now I have on board weather and traffic. I have well over $100,000 into this 1975 172M which we purchased back in 2001 at the peak of the market. Clearly I will never recover what I have in the airplane. I knew that going in. I think that if we keep our airplanes long enough AND spend the money to improve or maintain their condition, we will all eventually become financially upside down in our airplanes. Some folks will let things go. They won’t spend the money on paint, interior, avionics, etc. Then when they are faced with the engine job, they’ll want to sell the airplane. By then, the airplane has such a diminished value that it is no longer financially viable to fix it up and make it a nice airplane again. Off to the scrap yard or it just sits and rots on the ramp. You can make a financial argument to treat used airplanes as disposable items. Use them up then sell them for whatever you can get and buy another. But if everyone does that, eventually we’ll run out of airplanes. Somebody has to be willing to spend their money maintaining the condition and value of the airplane. It is really that simple. Spending a lot of money on your F model Mooney is still a lot less expensive than buying a new Mooney. If you proceed with the proposed upgrade and then get caught with an engine job...something to consider...how will that impact your budget and how will your wife feel? Hopefully these comments will be of some benefit to you. Let us know how it turns out.

I mean if you have an M20J or M20F and need a turbocharger you’re likely better off selling that airplane and buying one that has the turbocharger, whether that is a M20K 231 or 252, M20M Bravo, a Bonanza B36TC, Tornado alley turbo TNA36, T210, or a turbo Cirrus or many other of the dozens of options. Or a big block NA airplane like a IO550R V35B, or a Ovation, or even a Comanche 400... those with deice are very capable.

You statistic likely comment is proving to be true. Seals and servos are now more and more likely. Now I need to create a logical plan of attack - perhaps the servos in the tail first as they're easier to get to.

Oh, I don't know. Here's a picture of a JPI 930 installed in a large hole in the panel. I really like it flush mounted.

Not economically viable. For that cost you can sell your airplane and buy the turbo version of it and have a plane designed as such.

Aero Comfort in San Antonio makes them and does a great job on them. Call Hector and give him your serial number and he’ll know exactly what you need. The price list from 2014 lists it at $60, so I wouldn’t think it would be too much more than that.

Yeah, Chris. That really looks tacky.

Look for a table that shows CAS vs IAS and be careful with IAS vs CAS vs TAS. You should find that with altitude you will need a bit more IAS to maintain the same CAS. If we stick to CAS, no error, then Vx will essentially not change with altitude yet Vy will decrease with altitude till it hits Vx at your DA ceiling. For practical value you only use Vx to clear obstacles in airport/runway environment. You would never use Vx to clear a mountain pass miles away since you would use Vy to get to altitude in the least time and circle over lower terrain such as the airport if you couldn’t get high enough in a straight line to the pass. Further, if you don't have immediate obstacles to clear there is no need to climb at Vx - it's actually adds considerable risk to pilots in an engine out because too often pilots don't push the yoke forward right away to glide speed and stall out spinning in with out any chance of recovery. ( just had such a fatality in my area a couple weeks ago) I much prefer to accelerate to a cruise climb airspeed above Vy (Vy+10-20) well before TPA when obstacles are not a concern. This gives you plenty of options in the form of time as well as improved sight picture in an emergency and without significantly decreasing your ability to make it back to airport if you do have sufficient altitude. Deakin has a excellent article on more details of why not to climb at Vx and Vy on Avweb. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Number 2 gets used a lot when verifying where you are using number one.... With a powerful WAAS number one... number two is probably only going to get used when something fails with number one. Narcos have a tendency to breakdown in simple ways like old plastic gears for the tuning knobs.... So have a good #2. If you are paying for installation / wiring of an old #2... don’t waste the install costs on the old Narco... waste them on something newer... Best regards, -a-

I can't believe I am reading some of the comments in this thread! I hope they are pure sarcasm!!! As an aerobatic pilot and Mooney owner, my sincerest advice is to buy a Decathlon, get some good instruction, and enjoy getting upside down! Keep the Mooney shiny-side up unless you are Bob Hoover....

These are the issues for me. Having an HSI/CDI in the panel is nice, but having to keep the legacy DG to drive the autopilot negates the benefit. And then there is the "if and when". I have both an Aspen Pro 1000 and a Garmin G5 in my panel. I can flip the G5 back and forth between the AI and HSI screens. Having them next to each other in the panel, it's like looking at a $10,000 unit and a $2500 unit. There is just no comparison. Starting with the E5, getting it installed, and then at a later date with no further install charge, being able to upgrade to a full Pro 1000, is a nice option and a way of getting into glass without the huge upfront cost.