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I went to the NW aviation trade show in Puyallup today looking for information. Here is what I learned: 1. Neither Trio nor TruTrak were there so I have nothing to report on them. 2. KI300. Surprise, shipping delayed until April 2018 due to software changes to handle turbulence better. Approximate price for the model to replace our KI256 in a two axis KFC200 autopilot system will be about $6500. It will actually be two boxes. The display includes the backup battery and has a 9 pin connector and connections for pitot and static lines. The second box connects to the indicator via the 9 pin connector. The other end of that box connects to the KFC200 and GPS navigator. He estimates less than a day to install. 3. Dynon Skyview HDX. Still my favorite if it's available in time. They have submitted all the paperwork to the FAA for the STC for Cessna's. Just waiting for the FAA to give approval. Unable to provide a timeline as to when the system might be available for other aircraft. I think he said it takes about 6 to 18 months to get an STC for another aircraft. That won't happen until they have approval for the Cessna. Based on the catalog he gave me, I'd estimate parts for a Skyview HDX 7" display based system to be about $10,900 for a two axis system. Another $750, or $11,650 for two axis plus autotrim. And another $750 or $12,400 for three axis plus autotrim. That includes a 7" display, primary and secondary AHRS, GPS antenna/receiver, ARINC429 box to talk to our GTN650, backup battery, autopilot control panel, 3 knob HDG/ALT/BARO bug panel, Wi-Fi adapter for use with ForeFlight, servos, and D10A backup EFIS. If you want to display traffic and weather on the main display, the dual channel ADS-B receiver is $795. If you want AOA with a heated pitot, that's $450. If you want their Comm radio, that's $1295 (pretty neat; can be loaded from the main display with buttons for ATIS, Ground, Tower, and ATC). If you want the bigger 10" display, that's another $1300. If the main display quits you fly off the D10A. If your GPS navigator (our GTN650) quits, you can still navigate and fly with the autopilot using the built in GPS system. You can also add engine monitoring if you want. About $1300 for parts plus $200 for fuel flow if you want it. Extra for MP and RPM. And if you don't already have ADS-B OUT, you can get that for another $2200. Very flexible system. Things it does that the GFC500 doesn't: Synthetic Vision (if you are into that) with terrain warning coloring, moving map, true airspeed, winds, minimums bug, maps, charts, and velocity vector. 4. Garmin GFC500. Nice system. Probably the nicest servos. Assuming everything I was told is correct: If you install the GFC500 with a single G5, the G5 is installed as the HSI. That means you may also switch it over to ADI if you need to. In a single G5 system, if the G5 dies you also lose the autopilot. If the GPS navigator fails, the autopilot still works for heading and altitude hold but it cannot navigate. In a dual G5 system, if at least one of the G5's is working, the autopilot will still work. Based on prices on Sarasota Avionics, a single G5/GFC500/2 axis system will cost $8149. Add the autotrim and you are up to $9849. Add yaw dampener and you're up to an estimated $11,549. If you want a two G5 system that's $10,889/$12,589/ and $14,289 respectively. The representative could not confirm when they would gain approval for either Mooney or Bonanza. However, other sources indicate 2018 for Bonanza and 2019 for Mooney. That is all. Bob

I researched the Trio, Trig and GFC500 for installation on a C172. 1) The Trio STC is being developed by a separate entity (to Trio) with a bit of an attitude problem, and I believe a bit of a copyright problem (on the web but not verified by me). The guy keeps whining how busy he is with his day job (Cisco) and his night job (STC Group), and basically told me to F-off when I asked him not to share my email address along with all his customers. He was sending project updates to his entire mailing list without using BCC. If he thinks he can succeed by pissing off the very small number of buyers who are willing to be first - then good luck. I'm glad he did, because the GFC500 is far superior. I looked at the C172 installation at OSH, and did not like the servo with a pushrod onto the cables. Seems goofy to me. I like the Trio autopilot head and features - seems like a great product. 2) The Trig guys were very helpful. I didn't really like the servo on the firewall connected directly to the control column. 3) GFC500 - Garmin have nailed it. The servos with the traditional 'bridle cable' onto control wires seem like the right way to go. I've seen the brackets and drawings fro a C182 and they look right. If you take the G5 out of the pricing, its the same price as the others. But you get tremendous additional value with the G5 - for a start, most Mooney owners can loose the vacuum system if they have an electric HSI already. And then it is going to be forwardly compatible with a second G5 etc. I've just been burned by the Navworx experience. Sitting staring at a $2000 brick right now. I am one to support new innovative companies, but at the end of the day, the smart thing to do is to buy from a manufacturer who can afford to carry a product for as long as Garmin do, have the engineering department to do it well, and something that is likely to add more resale value than say Trio / Trig. Regards, Don

Funniest thing I heard was a student pilot talking to him self with a stuck mic!!He was muttering to himself..."easy does it....you can do it...carb heat on ,full fullest tank...speed 70 ...oh oh oh....ah ah sh*t!,,....ok ok ok ok....

Even at a quiet field it is important to check. Not to long ago I was flying a 767 into Maui at 4am. I was flying and the captain was working the radios. He was transmitting our position and trying to control the lights on the wrong freq. was not even close. After landing I took over the radios and realized the issue......It must have been the previous arrival that turned the lights on for themselves and we got lucky they stayed on for us as they went dark soon after we landed. Happens to everyone......

So, for anyone interested, the current status of the aircraft is that the Insurance company wants a more complete inspection before they commit to repair, so hopefully in the next week or two we'll get it off the ground and in a hangar so the wing inspection plates can be opened, and the belly, nose and gear can be seen to make a more accurate repair quote and the insurance company can make their determination. Personally, weather permitting, I'm going to be going up with a CFI starting next week in a 172 to work on the basics.

So, when the KI-300 is finally released, should it be considered brand-new technology or a long-in-the tooth 3 year old that is practically the same generation as an Aspen?

Almost forgot. I also talked to ElectroAir yesterday about their progress on a replacement for the "D" magnetos. They have changed their approach, hope to have it ready by Oshkosh, but did not have a price. If I remember right, the cost of their current system to replace a single magneto on a two magneto engine was about $4000. So I'm guessing we are probably talking about $6000 or $7000 but we will see when it comes out. Their new approach is to build their own standard magneto that will replace the "D" magneto. On the shaft of that magneto there will be an inductive pickup that will be used to trigger the other ignition system which will be electronic.

4 plugs would be powered by the new magneto and would operate during total electrical failure. The other 4 would be electronically controlled and would rely on electrical power from the normal electrical system. And this system is not for those who have 2 separate magneto. It's for those of us that have the single dual magneto.

Come on, this is an aviation forum, Tango Uniform

Or you could be like me, tuned into tower about 25 miles out.. flying your wife and her best friend and thinking it would be cute to pretend you’re an airline pilot and read them the “beginning our descent, weather, thanks for flying with us” speech and at the end realize by habit you keyed the mike and broadcast the whole thing. Oops.

Dude - I have a wife and kids. I live in the northeast. Please do not screw with me. I get you live in florida, but many of us do not. I've read many of your posts and they are great. Your instance that rainx is somehow safe does not seem responsible. God be with you.

If anyone decides to get one, PM me. I'm happy to pass on my Aircraft Spruce discount on this or anything else Aircraft Spruce sells.

Sure appreciate all the confessions in this thread, I've made similar errors. Worth remembering if you're ever on the verge of air rage about "that idiot who didn't even make position reports in the pattern!" Might be an honest mistake on their part, and might be you that has the frequency wrong or the audio panel mis-set or whatever.

Experience might not but a big dose of FLY MORE is never a bad thing. We get rusty when we don't fly often. So go more often. Fly. Fly some more. Go even when you don't have a reason to go. Fly, Fly, Fly

I wish I could say that experience would cure this problem. It lessen the frequency of stupid pilot tricks. But never seems to compleatly eliminate it. Any pilot that tells you they are too good to do things like that is probably about to do it. We can only learn from our mistakes and try like hell to never do it again. If we were perfect we wouldn't need an airplane we could just fly like the angels.

Going to FXE to get my tanks resealed, I was flying IFR in VMC but was too far away to hear ATIS, so I just turned down the volume on Com2. Vectored out over the Everglades, I started hearing "noises"! Unhappy pilot! Something made me check the radio after a couple of minutes, turned up the volume and found the source of the funny noises--ATIS was strong enough to break squelch. Living at an uncontrolled field, I sometimes either forget to hit the flip flop or miss it. It happens . . . .

Figures he got a cirrus. I used to cringe reading posts.

Currently those of us with the "D" engines like my IO-360A3B6D are unable to install an electronic ignition. The only systems available are for those who have two separate magnetos. They replace one magneto with an electronic ignition. What ElectroAir is attempting to do is replace our "D" magneto that has two magnetos in one case with a single magneto in the case. They will then use an inductive pickup off the magneto drive shaft to find timing for an electronic ignition. The idea behind the electronic ignition is that it is supposed to make starting easier (although I don't have a problem now) and can vary the timing based on RPM and MP to provide optimum timing. That provides the opportunity for more efficient operation. IF it allows me to avoid spending $1500+ every 500 hours for a magneto inspection, it will eventually pay for itself in maintenance and fuel costs. How long that would take remains to be seen.

That's my take. I like my KFC200. Its an excellent autopilot. But I think the prospects for it into the future are dim. Cost wise, sooner than later, the wise dollar is to remove it and to install one of the new generation of autopilots/systems coming up. Hopefully before I need any further repairs. I am jumping out of the BK train. Not to mention that the new generation of digital autopilots are much better equipped and I like the idea of brushless motors. At the moment I am split between Dynon and GFC500, but we will see how it shakes out in a year or so. Hopefully no repairs needed before then. Anyway no way am I investing in a BK anything, certainly not a KI300.

I offer $15.00 due to the cleaning fee involved. (Actual quote from an ebay buyer to my wife)

You can get an Uber to take you from Memphis Intl to Kennett. It cost me $115 in December (plus tip if you’re so inclined). It’s courteous to give your responding driver a quick call to confirm they have the time for a long trip. Many prefer a long fare. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yes you send them your KX155 radio and if they deem it unrepairable they charge $800... if they deem it repairable, then they replace the display and charge you $1750 and then send it back. I don’t think they’re even doing this anymore But for a few bucks more you can get an SL30 and avoid all this nonsense.

Hi Andy I’m sorry I had read your statement clearly but I wasn’t clear what I was trying to say. I was trying to say great it didn’t work but even if it had worked in a fun experiment for myth busters it alone would not be justification enough to rely on the stuff. sorry again!

The G5 is not an attitude source for any autopilot except the GFC 500. The GAD29b allows it to be a navigation/heading source for the listed autopilots(HSI Replacement). For those of us with King Autopilots and KI256 or KG258 we have to keep those with the G5, similarly with the Century or other attitude based autopilots.

Yes sir Mike! The plane is awesome, perfect for mountain flying out west. It will be returning back to Georgia in March for a month or so. Thanks again for the M20TN checkout! It was great flying with you.

Erik- it seems like you didn't read my post very closely- the peron who did the test (not me) showed pictures that said it did not repel any ice.

I'll be at Sun 'n Fun early in the week. There's an aviation Maintenance/Repair/Overhaul convention (MRO Americas) in Orlando that week, so it'll be a busy week! I'll look for ya in Lakeland.

I didn’t see it mentioned yet, but when we get a question about buying a Mooney we always say that you check with Jimmy Garrison at All American Aircraft. Which is good advice. Lee

The only thing that makes it rare for an IO360 to make TBO is the cam and lifters. Aside from that they probably will run 4000 hours.

It works for me in my electric C. I'm generally low by this time, so set 2300 and reduce power to ~15". When speed bleeds below 125 mph, I drop Takeoff Flaps, slow down and retrim then add power to hold 90 KIAS = 105 MPHI. Dropping the gear a dot-and-a-half high starts a nice descent at the same speed, adjust throttle and trim to hold a nice 500 fpm. Landing is quite easy with half flaps, and it's also pretty easy to slow to decent landing speed.

I agree completely. I am just expressing it is kind of creepy to think about such an event - and as I said, I too when pushing maximum range have used the well accepted practice of running one tank dry so all remaining fuel is well know and in one place.

Like @gsxrpilot I dont worry about a suddenly jamming fuel selector when its been used several times in the current flight and thousands of times in the last 7 years.

Yeah, my wife is not brown and has never gotten a traffic ticket despite being pulled over at least 5 times (once in a school zone), just warnings. I have been pulled over 5 times in 20 years, and have never gotten a warning, just tickets. Last year when I took a commercial flight out of Portland, a TSA officer pulled the guy ahead of me out of the line and demanded to see his boarding pass and ID. He happened to be the only black guy within a 100 ft. I assume he must have realized that looked bad, so afterwards, he turned to me and demanded mine, the only brown guy within 100 ft.

There is a massive cost to Rain-X relative to TKS. TKS cost is high in terms of dollars cost for acquisition and dollars cost to operate. But the opportunity cost regarding acquired risk is relatively low since you are operating a product that works. Rain-X is very low cost in terms of acquisition and operations. But the opportunity cost is very high in terms of probability of death is dramatically higher if flying near ice and you think you have a product that works but does not. Just think of the lost income if you are dead. Or think of the cost of carrying insurance as cheaper than not carrying cost if you think of the cost of risk and think like an actuary. If this does not make sense to you then I have a very cheap bullet proof vest for you made out of silk, and it looks good and it is comfortable too.

There are four colleges in a small corner of upstate way upstate ny. Therefore we are an upstate rural melting pot of the north.

At a MAPA PPP, I spoke with a pilot that experienced the exact same thing. Although he may not have been approaching the airport, the key thing was his altitude was too low to give him any time to keep flying the plane to an off field landing. Although he didn't have luck about is tank running dry at low altitude, at least he had some about the location since he was able to put it down without getting injured, collect on the insurance and fly another day. And that's the most important thing! But it happens a lot. We had a very new Cirrus SR22 go down right after takeoff at only 500' agl. This became a fatal because the plane came straight down on its nose. The engine quit in what appeared to be a very steep climb and the Ads-B position data makes it look like it climbed till literally fell out of the sky - the pilot never pushed the nose over to maintain glide speed. Although we have no idea why yet, one of the common possibilities being talked about of course is fuel starvation. All we really know to support that is that the first responders remarks that there was very little fuel to clean up at the site.

I found a picture of Chris working on his airplane.

Some of this is arguably accurate, some of it is arguably hogwash. I submit there is no meaningful difference in airframe age between the vast majority of F and J models. The very newest J models were made 20 years ago, and most of them are over 30 years old. That's more than enough time for ham-fisted mechanics to strip nut plates, scofflaw owner to ignore hoses and brake replacements, fuel tanks to leak and not be patched or resealed, etc. Amongst airplanes that are actually for sale, I'm confident you'll find roughly equal numbers of good and bad specimens of each flavor. As others have mentioned, the oil change thing is dependent on the specific F model. It takes approximately 5 minutes to de-cowl later F models for an oil change: about a dozen cam-locs on each cheek panel, 6 screws and a few more cam-locs for the top. In contrast, some of the structures on all J models are more trouble to deal with than those on any F model. Recessed inspection panels, sloped windshields with no access to avionics, gap and hinge seals, inner gear doors, etc. are all nice aero mods, but require more effort to work with. Prop spinner backplates on the J are more fragile, and while there are fewer screws involved, the one-piece belly has its own issues with wear-and-tear, particularly with requiring two people or some sort of jack/prop/assist to remove it without cracking it. I sure hope J model owners aren't using the lack of an AD to ignore lubricating rod ends. This is good practice on any airframe and is specifically called out in the J maintenance manual as a 100-hour requirement. Can't argue with the complaints about flap pumps, but the J isn't immune to the parts-made-of-unobtanium issue either. No-back clutch spring kits for the J model gear actuator were essentially impossible to find for a number of years. The "siamese" Magneto on the Lycoming A3B6D engine variant is somewhat unique to the Mooney M20J, and while I don't have any particular safety concerns about flying behind one, I'm not sure it's a good parts bet for the next 20 years vs. more conventional mags. None of this is meant to suggest the J isn't a great airplane. It is, which is why it commands a price premium in the market vs. the F. But don't kid yourself that the purchase premium is somehow offset by cheaper maintenance costs. jetdriven is a smart guy and makes lots of good contributions here, but I just can't agree with his opinion on this. You're not going to save money maintaining a J vs. maintaining an F.

I'm horrified you reopened it! I actually ended up responding to a 2 year old post before realizing a d deleting.

Just saw this topic. I have no recollection of having started it and am horrified by this realization.

Someone come hunt me down in the Vintage Camping section. I'm flying in Weds or Thurs and staying until Sunday

I’ll drive in once or twice during the week. Can’t wait to ask the Medical folks in the FAA building for an update on my Special Issuance package.

That's pretty deep... Maybe next time try a "Garfield" or "Calvin and Hobbes" reference...

Actually to be really discerning on the terminology, we have bounces and we have porpoising. The distinction in porpoising requires the nose wheel to hit first on a bounce which then leads to increasingly nose high bounces until real serious damage or its corrected. Bouncing alone, off the mains, will still occur if the plane doesn't settle on the runway gently as wings are losing lift to support it. Thus one can bounce from stalling the wings up to high and falling out of the sky from several feet or just coming down too quickly without holding it off with too much speed and lift. But its the latter bounce with too much speed while the wings still have plenty of lift that will very easily lead to porpoising if the pilot doesn't prevent (hold off) the nose wheel from contacting before the mains. I've seen a bad bounce rupture the rubber disk in the nose wheel from falling out of the sky! Flaring too high is the time to ease a bit of power back in to cushion the landing. Frankly the Ovation is easier to land than vintage birds, its more stable. Although some people like to deploy speed brakes in the flare I personally hate the idea of making any large configuration changes while flaring (speed brakes or flaps). Just be patient and hold it off (unless its a very strong x-wind and then fly it on gently if really necessary). On the ground though I've been know to raise flaps and/or pop speed brakes on short fields but we have to be really careful - too many people have raised the gear intending to raise flaps for the ultimate short field approach (and not impossible in a Mooney as we've read about here as well).

I work with engineers all day long, sometimes they do better with pictures

I can say that's one kind of flying I have no desire to ever do. When I go to Oshkosh I'm gonna be the guy who arrives a day or 2 or more early to miss all the traffic.

Full up trim to maintain 1.2 Vso and landing from that is great. But getting 10 feet above the runway and mashing the trim button until hits the up stop and brings the nose up for you that is something else, and sure as heck isn’t piloting.

Trimming the flare is bad technique and it reveals itself when you try to firewall it for for a go around and you can’t control the airplane anymore. This is frequently covered up with another bad technique which is adding partial power and retrimming before firewalling it for a go around. Trim the airplane for speed and learn how to land it properly. Might I also suggest Don kaye’s video.

I’ve had a close call that ended in just a bald spot on a tire but easily could have gone this way. Don’t beat your self up too much. Obviously get training., but a few hours with a thoughtful, experienced Mooney instructor may go a lot further toward making you feel competent in the saddle again than any amount of work in a 172. Good luck!

Given the weight distribution of the Modern American, is it possible -you- can lose some weight? I'm 6', was 220, headed for 185. That's 35 lbs right there.