Leaderboard

I’m headed to Hawaii for a week tomorrow morning. Since I wouldn’t be flying the plane for over a week, I decided it would be good to go get some gas to top off the fuel tanks for the week and a half that I would be gone. A fairly dry cold front was passing through. This caused some fairly high and gusty wind conditions. I was headed over to Byron, C83. It has 2 runways, 30 and 23. The winds were 210 at 22G28. There were many gliders out and they were all using 23. I decided to get some crosswind practive in so chose 30. Those on the ground probably thought I was crazy. I lined up on final and put in full flaps to see what the crab angle would be. It seemed like it was about 40°. I went to approach flaps and increased speed to 95 knots. The crab decreased to something reasonable like about 20°. The wind showed to be 26 knots direct crosswind on the G500. I came over the threshold at about 95 knots and gradually reduced power while aligning to the runway with rudder and holding the left wing down. Gradually I slowed while adding more and more aileron. I never ran out of aileron as I came to a stop. If at any time I was unable to hold the runway, I would have gone around to runway 23. 30 is 4500’ long so coming in that fast still provided plenty of runway to use if necessary, but I made the usual turnoff about half way down the runway. We don’t get much chance to practice our crosswind landings here in Northern California, so when we get a day like this it’s good to go out and practice. No one was taking advantage of it while I was there. PS From my experience the Mooney is a great crosswind landing airplane.

Wow. I just wanted to share some stories of a personal experience for knowledge of the common good. Play nice and keep the ad hominem to a minimum. I'd hope people aren't taking flying advice from a bunch of anonymous people on the internet. There is value to both knowing the rules and explaining what happens when they are broken. Fly safe.

A HUGE thanks to MS and the wisdom shared. Extra shout to Clarence and his quick replies and expertise. It's great having years of experience at the finger tips. One way or another we will manage to keep these old birds in the air....as long as we have MS that is -Tom

Shocking! /says nobody Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

I am glad to read this initial post. I have to say that as a new IFR pilot in an E model, icing is probably my biggest fear. The DPE I tested with said 10C/-10C is his rule and that I should plan on being 4000 feet below the freezing level. That would mean I would not really be able to take off in some instances. I am wondering what the best resource is for icing information/forecast. I use Foreflight and NOAA. It was interesting to learn about the tail icing. Thanks for all comments that are nice! XXOO

I added you to my list of people to tag for future events. @Bug Smasher I looked on the MS Member map that @gsxrpilot put together and added a few more. Hopefully they are okay with that. If any of you that I have tagged don't want to be included in notices about future events send me a PM and I'll remove you from my list. @TerryDubYa @MB65E @rdshave @TheTurtle @VetRepp @donkaye @M20S Driver @helitim @Sven @jrwilson @TargetDriver

Agreed. By the time you add up insurance, hangar, avgas, and maintenance for every year for 10 years, then sell the plane, even if it’s at a loss after all upgrades, the total yearly costs will dwarf the money you spent on purchasing and upgrading the plane. If you want to save money, fly a PC simulator.

Competition is good. Early GTN650/750 owners have benefited tremendously from the IFD440/540. New features have come out on the GTN since 2016 to keep up with what Avidyne had - bluetooth flight plan transfer, pinch to zoom to name a couple. Advanced features that the IFD's don't have yet have come out on the GTN to add value (telligence, visual approaches). It's been good for consumers when these companies try to stay ahead of one another. I can't wait to see what's next.

No the reason they haven't been incorporated is because the FAA and lawyers ruin it for the rest of us. If aviation was cheaper, the Porsche Mooney would have been a viable if it were competitive in the market. Imagine if development would have continued from 1988 to today at an exponential pace without blossoming finances ruining it- we'd all be behind FADEC engines, but alas, we're stuck behind tractor engines that have less moving parts than a woman's vibrator but cost $50,000. I'm no engineer, I'm no economist. I'm just a low-time, young private pilot with a passion for aviation just getting mad watching our industry wither away due to silly reasons while the auto industry is blossoming with laser headlights and hologram dash boards for the same price as a flying relic from the 50s.

And the price of the electroaire is about half the Bendix price... if I got that right... Best regards, -a-

No insulation and your bare door looks just like mine. And a picture of the refurbished/Jaegar lower panel: Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Agreed! Owning and maintaining an airplane 10 years ago would be much more difficult and expensive than it is today! Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

man aren't you an elitist snob.

How about you read what I wrote. Your rule of thumb *is* illegal, dangerous, and barking up the wrong tree. I made no mention of what was legal in the 80's, but since you bring it up, the only part you claim not true in the 80's is the "illegal" part. Everything else was true, and I'm not certain about the legality then of droning along in icing. You misunderstand what icing does to the airplane and how it creates a very real threat of loss of control - often near the ground. To claim that 'Mooney's carry ice better than most people think' is dangerous and preposterous. Have you polled "everybody?" You evidently are not qualified to assess how well a Mooney aircraft carries ice, but I can assure you that the laminar flow surfaces do *not* carry ice well at all. And airfoil degradation is only one of the many risks that comes with icing. Think: pitot tube, control surface impingement, fuel vent plugging (not in modern mooneys, thankfully), the weight of the ice, and more. So let's use a well-established ADM rubric to evaluate your rule of thumb: Antiauthority: Check Impuslivity: Nope Invulnerability: Check Macho: Maybe Resignation: Check Suggesting to other Mooney owners, who may have little or no experience flying in icing conditions, that the plane carries ice better than you think, and I didn't sweat it until I had a half inch on the wing is horrible advice. Here's my advice after thirty years and 5000 hours of flying mostly in the Northeast and Midwest: in unprotected planes: stay out of ice. If you see any icing accumulating, get out: up down or turn around. Ice will form first on the tail and the nav light/strobe fences at the wingtips; sharp edges are the best early accumulators for most ice. Ice is where you find it. Some of the worst I've experienced is in the summer in the tops of clouds. If you see a "Glory" in an undercast you're flying over and the temp is below freezing - you're going to be in icing unless you find a hole through which to descend Flying in icing is stressful - even in the TBM. In a non-protected aircraft, it must be many times more so. Stress degrades ADM. Poor ADM raises the likelihood of a mishap. -dan

Boy, a shiny chrome wrap would be so much easier than having to polish all that aluminum . . . .

I suspect the vibration was from prop ice. No electric prop deice? Picking up a trace in descent is the least hazardous way to experience it; especially if you are able to descend to below freezing. You may have picked up more on the elevators though. But it’s harder to judge the loss of performance in a descent compared to level flight when you will notice a speed drop as accumulation increases. One isn’t going to get cited for flying where there might be a pirep for icing or even forecasted icing conditions. It’s all about whether your plan had reasonable outs or plan B’s and you exercised them to get out of icing conditions. That’s perhaps overly simplistic but the FAA really leaves it up your judgement and planning. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What about adapting augmented reality glasses for aviation usage? would def be sweet. Imagine heads up displays and advanced avionics without having to install anything in our certificated dinosaurs

Hey guys, Just wanted to share personal experience for the team. Planned a night ifr flight, no forecast or reported icing. I have no anti ice on the m20k so I am pretty cautious about it. In descent started noticing some vibration in the engine. Was in the mountains so I got steped down pretty quick. Vibration went away but wing ice remained. I think most of it built up on the wing in the first few minutes as I entered lower moist but warm air the ice turned from rime into a melted mixed. Of course it was night and the airfield just started to have this mixed precipitation (not for cast) Flying characteristics were actually not too affected. I had about 30 gal of fuel in the wings, 1 pax front seat and about 50 lbs of cargo. I had no issues with full flap landing. Rounding out just below 80kts. Windscreen did start to collect around the middle. The sides were fine and I could see past. Eventually the de fog and warmer temps let it slide right off. Conclusions that I can draw from this are. Don't rely on forecast for icing. The CIP is quite good to be honest and I will be trusting that more in the future. The Canadian gfa really let me down. Rely on atc as they were quite helpful and stepped me down to below the feeder altitude for the RNav. And if ice happens, don't panic. Turn on whateve equipment you have. Get to lower and hopefully she'll melt. In this particular situation I felt that controlability was not an issue. Fly safe!

For those considering an Aspen panel upgrade, you'll want to take a look at this current discount offering. This looks to me to be the first real discount challenge to the new Garmin offerings. Dynon still beats them both, but then there's certification/AML/etc challenges remaining there. http://marketing.aspenavionics.com/acton/media/26251/aspen-avionics-february-2018-promotion?cr=glassclass&kw=newsletterLeaderboardSuper Cheers, Rick

Mods, IMHO we need a "tips and tricks" category on the forum. There are so many valuable time saving suggestions given by members over the years that they should be in their own category. For example, best places to get Mooney mods, to best ways to mount an iPad, to best way to search the forum etc. Being in one single category, would condense it all in one place, and would make finding the info much easier. Seems like a relatively easy thing to do, and would benefit everyone here. Roger

A couple of comments 1. the data above from the Avidyne forum was posted on 16 August 2016. 2. the equipment pairing (as required) is called out in the Avidyne install manual rev 12 dated (3/15/17) paragraph 6.12 page 85 Garmin GTX335 GTX345 "The IFD4XX/IFD5XX AML STC approves ADS-B out capability for this ADS-B OUT transmitter and GNSS position sensor combination to comply with 91.227." 3. the install manual is part of the Approved Model List STC. Appendix B: STC Permission Avidyne Corporation hereby grants to all National Aviation Authorities (FAA, CAA, JAA, etc) approved installers the use of data from STC SA00343BO to install the Avidyne IFD5XX/4XX System. This also includes any international validations of the STC (e.g. EASA, ANAC, etc). Copies of the STC data are available on the Avidyne website Technical Publications page or upon request. The latest data revisions are listed in Avidyne 700-00182-XXX/700-00179-XXX Master Document List, AVIFD-306. Installers must abide by the conditions and limitations stated in both the STC and in the Installation Manual in order to maintain compliance. The use of this data by itself does not constitute installation approval. Therefore: fully approved "legal" installation of this combination of equipment is current FAA recognized.

I fly into KISM around 4-5 times per year. I am actually planning on being there March 10-18. We always use Kissimmee Jet Center. The staff there are great with exception to the afore-mentioned Jeannie at the desk. She is there sometimes, and not others. We generally hop Uber to the parks. Uber is not allowed on the ramp, but the Jet Center folks will give you a ride to the gate to meet your car. I always file OCF > CERMO > KISM. Half the time Approach will give me direct KISM after OCF, the other not. I have never had a problem transitioning the Class Bravo. However, when winds are from the North, approach will often keep you to the West until turning over to the tower. It will be nice seeing another Mooney on the ramp. Safe travels. Brandon **Edit. I just called for my reservation and spoke with Jeannie. She was super pleasant and helpful. I hope this is the new rule and not the exception. I understand new ownership took over in January and this could be good things for the FBO.

You hit the nail on the head. Believe some users benefit from additional weather that is available on the XM via ADSB, and the music is a plus for those who like to stretch their aircraft's legs, but the pricing structure is a little rich for me.

+1 for Kerry McIntyre... He has serviced my mooneys since I first bought one, he is very knowlegeable and personable as well

The deals will continue to get better. Two years should have more options and cheaper prices.

Same discount they had last year at this time.

I promise to write on how to choose paintshops etc.

Thanks for the lovely reminder, @ragedracer1977. Yesterday, inspired by you, I remembered that I owed my friend a long-ago promised ride. My delighted copilot was an 85-year-old former Cherokee180 owner, who hadn't flown in decades. He had the controls for an hour, kept admiring the Mooney handling. (I firewalled the throttle, muttered "giddyap" to 310 horses, and my friend crowed, "yeah! Oh, yeah!" ) Hadn't forgotten a thing. A gorgeous, if a bit gusty day, it was a fine excuse to warm the oil and see if having the windsock pointing straight across the runway was a problem. Your recounted kindness spread ripples of happiness. I bet my friend is still grinning. So, all of you looking for an excuse to brighten a life, two lives, in fact, on the next beautiful day, find some dear old soul and offer a ride.

I intend to do the Manchester NH PPP September 7-9.

It is pretty common to not hook things like antennas and such back up when the panels go on. The antennas for your transponder and such are on the belly. Were belly panels removed? Are there codes on the radios saying things. I would start with a list of what was touched then retrace the steps.

Where’d you take it so I don’t take mine there lol

NM, I feel your pain. I'm in the throws of the same issue right now. Found a leak near the #6 (exhaust dust and blistered paint on the engine mount). We pulled the whole left side exhaust and sent it to Knisley. Was supposed to be 2 weeks, but took over 5. Ugh. Then, once we got it back, big leak on the crossover between the new and old. Our mistake for not taking everything off and sending it all together. Good advice above to do that...wish I had known. I actually didn't realize they basically just rebuild everything instead of patching. Works for me...I just didn't know. Knisley basically said it would be another 4+ weeks. Dawley said the same. It is killing me having the plane down (I fly quite a bit and hate taking the 'bus'), so I overnighted everything to Aerospace Welding in MN as they indicated 1-1.5 week turnaround. We will see. Check those v-bands while you have it apart. Found a crack on one of mine. Good luck! Vance

Thanks Marauder. That looks great! I am sticking with OEM type Plane plastics to replace the lower. Upper has some cracked screw holes. The rubber seal around the handle is riveted, sandwiched between the handle and door skin. Not a job for me to take on but will put on the list when I get to a paint job, along with replacing the windows. iain

Following the timeline, Joe... This Saran Wrap Technology won’t be available for us to use for a couple of more years... I took my son’s Pontiac door apart a few months ago chasing a window issue... the plastic film had to be pulled out and put back. Looks like a good idea for this application as well. Total weight.... less than an ounce? Of course on my M20C the door didn’t have a decent seal, so this challenges didn’t get the attention we are seeing in this thread. Best regards, -a-

They don't do that anymore. Now it's polypropylene plastic formed to the door skin. The door shell has drain holes for water to escape. The poly and the interior panel insulate the skin to keep interior and exterior temps separate and prevent moisture build up. The plastic membrane was too thin. Also the interior panels are not just plastic but a polymer that doesn't crack like old panels did. All hardware is now plastic coated and all pivots and connectors are made of delrin. Push rods have been replaced with SS cables. Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk

I do have a drawing that defines what the stack of hardware should look like - the parts manual for my airplane. There are only four parts: the bolt, nut, bushing, and a single washer that goes on the nut side which you can see in the videos above. I'm pretty confident the stack is assembled per the parts manual, and that it matches what we found during disassembly. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's "correct". As I write this, it occurs to me to look in the M20J parts manual. Our 1976 M20F is kind of a funny airplane. That was the last year of the F, and it was built in the middle of the transition to the J. We've found a few things here and there on the airplane where the assembly corresponds to drawing and parts in the M20J manual rather than the M20F manual. So... the J manual specs the same bushing, nut and cotter pin. But it lists an NAS1106-12D bolt with no washer. The NAS1106-12D is 1-9/64" long, just a skosh longer than the 1-7/64th AN26-17. So doesn't seem like that would help.

GE official landing lights are $5.00 Change those out yourself which is legal as an owner pilot. A Set new hoses are $1100 for the good ones with internal firesleeves. Call PHT hoses in Tulsa. Make sure your oil cooler is stock. You said landing light(s) If not you need shorter oil cooler hoses. Also if you have a fuel flow meter the fuel line will be different. Unless the discs are cracked or split they can probably go another year

In this age of political and social polarization, it’s heartwarming to hear the “hands across the border” willingness to help out Canadians with our unfortunate situation, Thanks for your generosity.

Thanks for your thoughts, Anthony. The bolt is spec'd in the parts manual, and there is only one size: AN26-17. That's what LASAR shipped. But I agree It looks like it could be shorter. The rule of thumb for lock nuts is at least one full thread showing. I'm not sure what it is for castle nuts, but there are at least two full threads showing here, and as you note, the cotter pin is barely on the edge of the nut rather than snugged down inside the castle groove. Perhaps the answer is simply going to an AN26-16 bolt, which would be 1/8" shorter.

Do it! it will be worth it. For many different reasons. Some you get to pick yourself. Just be sure to check the dates and locations, as this thread has some age associated with it... Best regards, -a-

You are totally wrong about what you are saying. It was not anti-authority. It was completely legal and the way everybody who actually used a plane for transportation operated back then. Nobody wanted to be the first one to report ice unless it was a real hazard because you essentially closed that airway for non-FIKI aircraft for the rest of the day. Invulnerability - no, I could tell you about some of the icing encounters that I had during instrument training and other times that snuck up on me that scared the hell out of me. I had a healthy respect for ice. What I'm talking about is droning along in trace rime. Macho, perhaps you should look in a mirror. I was just trying to relay some of my experience with operating a Mooney in ice.

I also have seen this several times, so I'm now more cautious to let at least an overnight before I assume I need to add oil.

Tom, for a wiring diagram that details your broken terminal... The rebuild kit details what broke off. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/ignitionswitchkit.php?gclid=Cj0KCQiAwp_UBRD7ARIsAMie3Xbng0jSrc0QqlJjo5uWdbSXNqRA7SnHnaVFYH2gzC7pYoUSLbPuCn0aArpGEALw_wcB Find the post above that mentions the jumper... I see in your latest set of photos where the jumper is. And what broke. And why the L mag was unexpectedly grounded... (that’s a lot of memory, I may have it a little fuzzy...) I think the power of MS is really showing itself today... Still wouldn’t rebuild the switch, until it was my only option. Also make sure the wires are well supported behind the switch. The stress of the weight hanging on the parts can be what broke the part. Best regards, -a-

I didnt say you can't fly your "home," I said you can't fly a "house." There's a difference, ask anyone towing a Tiny Home around the country; they're neat, and very hot right now, but they arent "houses" either.

I have always wondered why there is not a light turbofan. Something that can produce about 600 lbs of thrust should do it

As a public service to all those owners with capacitive fuel sensors, I am willing to take the quarantined fuel for use in my float sensor equipped plane. Just to show how generous I am to help out, I won't charge the fuel companies to accept the flawed product. I'll accept the fuel "as is" for no additional disposal fee.

you guys amaze me , not a single one of you has bought the bravo that flys , tks etc etc , but you price this over a hundred k really REALLY

All depends if the door is a bifold or split push-open. The latter would be difficult to wire up . . . . My second WV hangar, split push open facing north, froze a couple of times. Getting it open was a royal b!tch . . . . My Alabama hangar door may have frozen open during our (record?) second snowfall this winter, but I can't say for sure, the roads out by the house were too icy . . . So it didn't matter.

Showing true Mooney CB status...spend thousands to fly round trip from home in SoCal to Virginia (Hampton Roads Airport, KPVG) and then get the cheapest rental clown car they offered.