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Hi, everyone! I'm a new Mooney owner -- I recently bought and ferried N201XG, a 1978 201, from its last owner in Texas to my base in Seattle. I decided to buy a plane back in September of last year and settled pretty quickly on an M20J. I did a little bit of looking at Bonanzas and Super Vikings but, as I'm sure you know, the M20 (and in particular the J model) had a really attractive mix of efficiency and speed and features. It also fit my mission profile pretty well, which was generally 0-2 passengers for quick flights within a 400nm radius. The fact that the M20 isn't immensely popular also appealed to me. I daily drove a Porsche 914 for years and I like something that's a little quirky and unusual. I was really methodical about selecting a 201, and have a spreadsheet filled with details on every M20J I found on the market in the last few months, organized by a scale of 1-3: "1" planes were exactly what I was looking for, "2" planes would do if I couldn't find a suitable "1" plane, and "3" planes you probably couldn't pay me to take. I did pricing workups on most and ended up with analyses of varying levels of 68 aircraft in all. N201XG was one of 8 aircraft I took a really close look at, and after spending a lot of time with remarkably patient and helpful selling broker, I bought the plane and moved it from its last base in Texas to its current home in Seattle. It turns out that N201XG spent 16 years in the Puget Sound area, from 1983 through 1999. Some of the maintenance logs show entries from Galvin Flying, the local flight school (and MSC before they got out of the repair business) where I met my insurance minimums in a rental M20J, N161MP. After that, N201XG spent 17 years in new England and 2 in Texas. This plane has a recently overhauled engine with the Firewall Forward 225hp STC, which was previously installed in the plane in 1987, then removed in 1999, before being reinstalled in 2017. It's an amazing plane and I've had a blast on local flights. I'm looking forward to expanding my radius as the weather warms and I work through the small list of remaining minor maintenance issues. Feels pretty neat to have an aircraft that has such a long history in my neighborhood.

Just a follow-up since I originally posted and had the loss of power event. I received the order from Amazon and even ordered some Prist from Spruce. After a sudden power loss and you have had time to reflect you are willing to try any and ALL suggestions. To say I over ordered and took everyone's advice is a understatement. Neil is fairly local and gave me a call the day I posted this and gave me his reasoning and background about the water in the fuel theory. I bought some of the ISO-HEET the next day and put a bottle in each tank. I also did a very thorough pre-flight fuel test and drain..much more than I normally do. Everything appeared good. I'm happy to report I've had about five separate 1/2 hour to a full hour of flights with no engine issues and all gauges are reading correct. Hopefully that was a once a lifetime event, but at least I now know what that type of situation feels like and I feel slightly more confident knowing under a minor emergency I remembered procedure...for the most part anyway. The landing leaved a lot to be desired. I was just glad to be on the ground. Thanks for all the info and input. -Tom

Hell I'm 40 and it hasn't been fun in years.

Foremost, because I am not an expert on the sealant, the prohibition on Prist pertains to the current production aircraft - so its just as applicable to modern sealant. My limited understanding is that the non-modern sealant is the dating back to the vintage Mooney's. I believe all the mid-body's such as our K's since the 80's were sealed with "modern" sealant or material which is equivalent to todays but I can't factually say, except that is also about when the prohibition on Prist began by the factory as far as I know and continues in today's production aircraft. I personally have never used it, and I've only very seldom used IPA, but I am also anal about keeping the cap o-rings in good shape and use the more modern longer lasting material. But I know I have gotten a little water into the fuel system every time I remove the caps when they are soaked despite trying to mop up the water first with a towel. But I have never experienced the condensation issue flying in the flight levels for past 15+ years either. But through Savvy I see a lot of fuel contamination issues, so I am certainly not implying aircraft shouldn't need it. Many clearly do on occasion, especially since our fuel system is particularly vulnerable to it, but luckily I have managed to avoid any.

And I don't hate my job I hate what my company has turned it into. I still enjoy what is my real reason for being there. To serve my customers both internal and external. In all the years there are almost no two jobs with the same solution. The work can be very challenging and often very gratifying when the work is done. Regardless I am looking forward to the future and even though it's just around the corner I don't know how many months weeks and days it will be but that knowledge will be soon in coming.

Fun? I have always worked to Iive NOT lived to work. Good for those of you that are in a career/profession that you are passionate about and enjoy. For me, NEVER have I identified my “self” with my employment...

I love MooneySpace. In the end we found two smoking guns, and fixing both together solved the problem. Long writeup below for future searches. My A&P and I pulled off the cowling last weekend and found major problem #1. There was a fairly major leak at the intake flange for the right front cylinder. Blue 100LL dye was all over the intake, cylinder, and had even sprayed onto the inside of the cowling. Closer inspection found that one of the bolts securing the intake flange had backed out, and contributing to the problem was a cracked gasket. My A&P says a leak like this will cause the cylinder in question to run excessively lean, which likely explains the majority of the engine roughness. @kortopates gets credit for that one. What was interesting is that this was not the cylinder with the single EGT probe, and a subsequent test flight showed a smoother engine but still high temperatures. So we pulled the cowling again and focused on the cylinder with the probe, the left rear. As many of you suggested, we found significant lead deposits on the bottom plug. We elected to pull all eight plugs for a very thorough cleaning and gapping. The following test flight showed the temperatures were back to normal and the engine felt better than before. A few lessons learned- Next time I'll at least pull the cowling off before spooling up the experts at MooneySpace. It didn't take a rocket scientist to find the intake leak. My A&P suggests I clean/gap the plugs at each oil change, rather than at each annual. I'm in talks with my local avionics shop to install a used EDM-700. The quote I got for install was more reasonable than I expected and it is worth the piece of mind. It would have really helped in this situation.

Congrats on your purchase!! Would love to see more pics when you can post them. Also, I am curious to hear your opinion on the 225HP STC.

Congratulations!

Bennett, You and I think so much alike. I bought 133DB for $95k almost 5 years ago. First I started working on the airframe to make sure it was perfect. I then added a GTN 750, 1 tube aspen, and a JPI830 (this was a mistake on my part as I ended up wanting primary and had to put in the JPI900). Then I zero timed my engine at Airmark in Ft. Lauderdale. Now I bought the plane with really nice interior (no quite as nice as yours, but for sure 8 or 9 out of 10). Then came a 1 piece belly, new landing gear pucks, new glass throughout. The. I had a new panel designed 3 tube aspen, JPI900, G5 so the vacuum system is gone. ADSB in and out, LED all around. Then off to Hawk for a tremendous paint job. Mine is probably a step below yours but it is one of the nicest I have ever seen. I probably have $200k in it. Will I ever get that back? No, but I have basically a brand new Mooney that I can fly for many years (I am 56). I am going to add more. A Garmin GFC500 or 600 when I can. Speed brakes and passenger side brakes this annual. Point is, for let’s say $225 you can have every bit as much Plane as what would cost $500 or $600 to build new Today. We need to take our planes to the same place someday just to see how they compare

I think it’s a great program. There are many young kids who drive by the airport in their parents car, with noses stuck to the glass just itching to get on the other side of the fence( I was one of those Kids). I had the opportunity to participate in a YE event a few yrs back, an it was very rewarding. I have not had the opportunity to volunteer lately, so I haven’t had to deal with the background check. But, its to be expected. Just look at what goes on in this world these days With Children, you can’t ever be to safe. so a little extra paperwork won’t make leave a sour taste in my mouth.

Some years ago I was landing at -32C in Iqaluit on a ferry flight. The aircraft was parked outside that night. At departure next morning the temperature was -35C. The Mooney M20E started fine after 30 min preheating of engine and cockpit. I remember the AI needed some time to stop tumbling after engine start. The cockpit warmed up quickly after takeoff. I felt the limitation was more the pilot's performance at that temperatures and not the technology...

I added them to my F model about 5 years ago. The kit is expensive if purchased new. I was able to find used parts for under $500. I have the drawings and install instructions that I can email to you.

I've been kinda, sorta, maybe looking for an airplane with greater useful load. For my day to day flying, the Mooney is perfect but for my charity flights (Flying Samaritans, Angel Flights and Veteran's Airlift Command), I really could use more useful load. I wasn't actively looking but if something popped up that looked promising I would inquire. It is amazing the number of people, mostly brokers but some private owners that stop communication when asked for logs. I had that happen a few times. I asked for logs from some people three times without ever getting them. Oh well, those airplanes were no longer in consideration. I've thought about sending a letter to the owners letting them know their broker isn't doing them any favors. Maybe I will, maybe not. Around Christmas decided I was going to start actively looking instead of just being passive. On January 1st I sent an inquiry to an owner. On January 2 he provided pdf copies of the logs. On January 4 we talked about the airplane on the phone and I knew the price it would take to buy it if I so chose. On January 6th a fellow Mooney owner (and Mooneyspace member) looked at the airplane for me in person and flew it. An hour later I had agreed to buy the airplane. On January 8th I sent a wire transfer for the entire purchase price. The airplane is being delivered to me on January 13th. From first inquiry to delivery (some 1300+ NM away) in less than two weeks. It really can be that fast and easy. [There is now a Garmin 345 transponder with ADS-B IN/OUT installed]

Not too much time at cruise at the moment. Ask me in a few more months.

Haven't tried LOP climb - might, but enjoying the big climb rate at full power. Did get to fly a TBM930 with a friend today - super impressive aircraft and short field capable. Now... to work out the CAPEX and the fuel situation.... Garmin NXi is mostly intuitive for me with thousands of G1000 hours. For someone coming from the new Garmin 650 / 750 panel mounts, it would probably be more so. -dan

I did some digging prior to purchase. On one hand, I've heard about warranty disputes and one secondhand case where a customer was pretty unhappy about the way accessories were installed on an engine in a twin Beech. On the other, these complaints were all at least a few years old and they've had documented changes in ownership since then. I called the BBB in Denver and they confirmed zero complaints in the last three years. There are enough FF powerplants out there that it's pretty self-evident they're familiar with overhauling engines. On balance, I like that they're an experienced engine shop. I dislike the prospect of following up if I have to make a warranty claim, but the evidence says to me that they won't leave me hanging. Plus, we're all just one prop strike away from an overhaul anyway.

Hi Anthony - grandparent lives in 39N territory and have lots of extended family there, but yes we’re at TTA. I have an old speaker wire that I soldered alligator clips to and is my go to continuity tester. I’ll use that and my volt meter. Tomorrow the Mrs has given me permission to spend some time troubleshooting. Step 1 will be to actually locate the voltage regulator. LEDs for troubleshooting seem like a great feature.

I am approaching the end of my second career. I have what should be one of the best jobs on the face of the planet for an aviator. And up until about 10 years ago, it was, for me and most of the folks I work with. "I can't believe they pay us to do this!" was a common refrain. That's when the insidious creep of modern day management-in-lieu-of-leadership started having a real impact on our department. Now, I keep going to work because of the people I get to work with, and a small part of the work is still "oh my God!" fun and rewarding. I am definitely in the camp of working to live, and am looking forward to claiming all of my time to devote to the things I choose to, without giving 8 hours a day, and usually more, to someone else. But in the mean time, my coworkers are some of my best friends, and we occasionally get to do some great work together. I've been blessed with a job I love working with people I like, but it is still a job. I'll never stop contributing in some way, especially to aviation, it will just be on my schedule and according to my priorities. I know that will be somewhat limiting and confine me to pursuits over which I have the illusion of control, but isn't that the point? A friend who just retired put it best - "We are dinosaurs here, nobody cares about what we've done or that we know how to do it better." A sad fact of where we are at our age in corporate life. Time to move to a different environment. I didn't get hit with Marauder's ton of bricks, but they've been piling on top of me brick by brick to where the ton is finally there. Cheers, Rick UPDATE! 2/19/18 My company's leadership has taken a most definite turn to the positive! My greatest fear at the moment is that when I reach my predetermined criteria for departure, the decision to leave will be a difficult one. Not just because of the great people that I get to work with, but because of the positive direction that the company is headed in and the fact that it will indeed be exciting to go in to work every day again! What a wonderful problem to have. I'm very blessed.

When I was at my last duty station, I had enough time in the military to retire. I sat down and wrote this list of all my options. (Obviously, B and beyond is "Retire and ...") A. Take the next assignment I am offered. B. Obtain venture capital, develop engine patents. C. Get my PhD in Dust Combustion. D. Become mercenary pilot. E. Teach JROTC in Pago Pago. F. Go fishing. G. Go hunting. H. Star as the pilot in the reality show "Air Faire America". I. Write Just War Theory book. J. Finish writing SciFi novel. K. Get my CFI-I and teach flying. L. Teach online. M. Become an ABIMU. (Angry Blogger In My Underwear.) N. Patent suppressor design, start suppressor company. O. Start laser machining business. P. Farm woody florals. Q. Build a Kit Plane. R. Build furniture. S. Train hunting dogs. T. Write historical book about American Indians. U. Fix all the crap wrong with the house. As it turned out, the next assignment offered was not desirable, mercenary pay started to fall, my wife said that if we move to Pago Pago she gets to retire, (While I am still working? BS!), and "Air Faire America" never got back to me about an interview, (I presume it was never made), so A, D, E, and H were out. I do F, G, M, and U as often as possible, but my main focus is on N and O. I also plan to do at least the first half of K using my GI Bill. I got my MEL ATP and SEL Comm ratings since retiring and will continue to add ratings. As my example shows, I would suggest you create your own list, (A might be to stay at your job), and decide what would be the most rewarding in the near- and long-term. Always have goals and plans!

When we spent our summers at our lake house, we had an acquaintance who would stop by our dock about once a week to chat. Each visit, he would tell us how many years, days, hours he had until he retired. I always thought it so sad that a person would spend his entire life at a job he hated. We only have one lifetime to learn to be happy.

The remaining impurities depend on the method of manufacture and purification. I can say that there was less than 50ppm water in the >96% I made.

That's easy, Top Gun is a very respected MSC very close at Stockton. Go there unless they've been maintaining it for the previous owner since a fresh pair of eyes is always a good idea. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

@amillet absolutely! Drop a line when you're around. @teejayevans I'm not certain exactly. I believe the work is just the pistons and the STC paperwork, and this is just a guess, but I think the total is probably between $2k and $5k. But, since this requires pulling all of the cylinders off, it's the kind of thing you'd want an engine shop to do (e.g. at overhaul). The plane is too new to me to know whether it's worth it. It runs a little hotter than the other Mooneys I've been in, but that could just be due to worn baffles and, it could be timed to 25 degrees BTDC. I can keep the CHTs in the green with some attention but will have that checked out next time I'm in the shop, and that may make it a little more useful. Ask me later this year and I'll probably have a better opinion about the STC.

I owned N201XG (with 2 partners) from 1989 to 1994. I’m just a short hop away in Sequim. I’m taking our current “J” model to Troutdale’s Mooney service center today or tomorrow for its annual, and installation of LED strobe/nav lights and 406 ELT. We’ll have to meet up when I get the plane back.

Once we finally got the ff set up correctly, full rich get was unremarkably low. I'd have to pull the flight data to put a number on it. I flew in circles because my wanted to stay near the field while doing the first hour or two on the cylinders. This was a fairly extensive overhaul that took three attempts to get right (they said it was done, but it wasn't. ) will i I climb it this way all the time? I dunno. I'll talk to Walter and John at APS. From a wear and tear perspective, it's probably minimal. The engine runs at 2700 on the Cessna TTX and SR22T just fine. Mostly I did it to shorten summertime takeoff runs at our little 2500' strip. Mission accomplished on that matter. -Dan

Since I brought Prist up into the discussion, I sent them an email asking specifically what limitations are in place for general aviation 100LL fuels. As Neil pointed out, they went from a mono-ethylene glycol ether formulation to a di-ethylene glycol ether. Presumably to make it for environmentally friendly. Either formulations is an ether based compound. The fact they now specifically call out turbine certification (military DOD) and nothing on 100 LL usage may have more to do with legal concerns than function. I’ll let you know what I find out. BTW - to Paul’s point. From the Aircraft Spruce Q&A: Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Firewall Forward out of Loveland, CO offers it as an STC: http://thenewfirewallforward.com/tnfwf_2012-2013_new_006.htm It's a stock IO-360 crankcase and cylinders with high-compression pistons out of an HIO-360 plus some limitations and placards on maximum MP under certain conditions.

That is awesome. Glad to see another Mooney in the PNW. Your story is almost exactly like mine. I live in eastern Oregon and drove 16 hours round trip to get checked out in one of Galvin 201’s. Any chance Jim or Dave was your CFII? I was flying N1021K. It took me just about two years to find N201NU, and I found it in Texas as well. It was a blast flying it back. If you are on Facebook and if you haven’t found the page check out FATPNW. Flights Above The Pacific North West. Great group of aviation fans.... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Welcome aboard, adverse! -a-

It’s 100% relative to what right? I mean my particular engine the tsio520nb derived from the Cessna 340 and 414 twins is often rated 325 or 335 hp but it’s down rated to 305 in my airplane. fuel flow setting at 100% is much higher (and extra ooomph of fuel) so at full power 32gph it cools well on a hot days climb where as at cruise climb setting 27gph it gets hot after awhile. in winter though it climbs so ferociously even at cruise climb and it doesn’t get hot in very cold weather, I just take it easy at 85%.

It was a dark and windy night... ok, it was a sunny and windy day on the coast. So I decided to go inland to a few new(to me) airports I had wanted to check out. I even brought along my video camera, which didn't get any useful audio, and stopped recording several times and needed to be restarted. I headed from Newport(KONP) to Sisters Eagle Airport(6K5) which has a camping area I wanted to see. Then I headed to Lake Billy Chinook State(5S5) which is really more of an airpark, but I did manage to get the camera working: Arrival and Departure from 5S5. Lake Billy Chinook State Airport Oregon Then I headed to Prineville(S39) where every plane in the area was apparently flying and breaking off the 45 a couple times for traffic I couldn't spot and realizing that there were 2 similar sounding red and white skywagons on frequency(at least I think there were, we have proper callsigns for a reason folks). I said screw it and continued to Bend(KBDN) where I had planned to get fuel. After I had worked out my whole 'left vs right' and 'east vs west' problem someone ended up on the runway with a flat. So I headed over to Albany(S12) to get fuel, and managed to actually land there. Then I headed back to Newport where the winds were favoring runway 02 at a sporting 060 18G24 or so(peak gusts were 26 I think) Arrival to Newport Municipal Airport, Oregon, Runway 02 If you look carefully in the video you can see my house, you can also see why I live where I do. Oh well, 3 hours, 2 new airports at least(and really the more interesting ones).

@Bennett and @82Mike This is exactly what I'm planning with my 252. Before I retire, I'd like to get my 252 back to a fully restored, as close to brand new as possible condition. Then retire and fly it as much as possible until I can no longer hold a medical. JD at SWTA and I are currently working on an interesting upgrade... I can't speak about it yet as it is a prototype. But hope to get clearance to post some pictures in the near future.

You know what. I heard the same thing! I never heard of that book! Yes! And you will need a new tail number too - ...how about....N1618J

Just remember Prist is prohibited from being used in our Mooney's; its not compatible with our sealant. (I don't know about bladders compatibility). I would only use it in an emergency and after very carefully diluting with avgas before adding it to the fuel tank. Its probably safe enough after diluting it if you really needed it and it was the only thing available. Only isopropyl Alcohol is approved.

I had it lasered to removed the powder coat. It exposes the raw metal beneath. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hah! I hear he’s a fellow rocket engineeering alum, as well Slightly off topic, but your discussion of the golden ratio reminded me... I loved the book “archimedes revenge”... interesting chapter about the golden ratio! hmm, maybe I need to get the Missile painted now...

I bought my 252 needing an annual as well. I negotiated a purchase price to take the need for the annual into consideration. I started with a pre-buy that I as the buyer would pay for. At the point in the pre-buy that I was comfortable buying the airplane, I first finalized the purchase, then told the shop to proceed to annual the plane which I paid for as well. I think the motivation is all wrong for the seller to be paying for an annual. I'd much rather take the estimated cost out of the purchase price, then once I own the plane, I'll be able to make 100% of the decisions during the annual. Just my $0.02

Anybody willing to pay $500,000 for a plane probably does not care too much about the added efficiency of the J; better to get more speed for a little more operating cost. Just look at the competition, i.e. Cessna 400, Cirrus, ... Plus, when considering a new plane, is $500,000 really that much less than $769,000? 50% of a large number is sizable, but the underlying number is sooo large to begin with. Unless you can get the price down substantially, I think it is a lost cause.

I built this wiring harness myself. No smoke on first power on!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's great to discuss making a fortune on this thread, but all the other threads deal with how to turn a large fortune into a small one: own a Mooney.

I have stopped browsing Planeboard for this reason. When I was searching for an airplane I called and emailed on two different airplanes for sale. No responses from either. I also have noticed that there were always "too good to be true pricing" on the avionics listed. A friend of mine tried to buy a 530W that was listed, he bugged out when the seller claimed he was shipping it from the middle east. Cheers, Dan

I finally settled on a layout for my panel. I just got it powder coated. It’s going to be a really busy weekend.kitchen pass has been pre-approved. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

which engine? 180 hp carb I see about 4psi in cruise...during climb out above 6k it can be near bottom of the green until leveled out and throttle is back....

180 KTAS on 21 GPH.

I am a math professor. But Pi is not specifically the most important number for me, but I teach and there is "Pi Day" which is fun. And it is a very recognizable number that has a bit of a math flare. Actually my VERY favorite number is the Golden Mean, which is (1+Sqrt(5))/2=1.61803398874989484820458... but it shows up in amazing places in topics that I study. First note it has a beautiful continued fraction expansion as, (1+Sqrt(5))/2= It shows up in really amazing ways in various topics relating to resonance such as the rings of Saturn or plasma confinement. KAM theory is the topic.

I remove the dip stick after a flight, allows the trapped water vapor to escape. Don’t know how much it helps but it costs nothing.

I have a dozen EFBs divided more or less evenly between iOS and Android. Here's the scoop from my perspective: 85-90% of what they do is the same. Most the differences are about how they do the 85-90%. In both cases, it's about us, not the app. That 10-15%? ForeFlight's route advisor is just one example. If you want to plan an IFR route, FF will let you pull up recent ATC clearances which increase the likelihood the route you file is the route you get. FlyQ still doesn't do that. Some people don't care. Some do. Some live where the never get what they expect. And there's a workaround if you do care. There are plenty of other examples. The how? That's really dependent on both how you use and how long you have used an app. I'll use myself as the example. If I were in the market today or a casual user who relied primarily on the moving map and not much, it probably would make no difference to me which one I used. But January will mark 7 years I've been using ForeFlight. I know my way around it I am very, very comfortable with the way it does things, how to get to the essential (to) me functions and I have even used some of its more esoteric capabilities. I go into one of the others and end up finding out it just doesn't do what I want or how I want it to. Not because one is better or worse, but because I am used to the way I've done it for years. ForeFlight is the most expensive EFB I have. As a CFI, many are free to me and the rest (except Garmin Pilot which I don't have) deeply discounted. But, even though I have a very close second choice, I don't see leaving ForeFlight so long as I am flying IFR (although that might depend a lot on the direction that second choice takes).

Mid annual. Everything is checking out A-okay so far. Last year's annual was so thorough and complete that everything is still in spec and just going around lubing and checking. Compressions 76, 78, 78, 77. All spark plugs under 1k ohms, clean, gapped, rotated. Oil change complete, swapped air filter. AD's completed. We've found the rigging to be off-kilter, and explains why it has a right-banking tendency. So we will fix that tomorrow. A couple heim joints on the flaps are starting to get bit loose just a wee bit of slop, I will order some new ones and swap those out. Tomorrow we rebuild the fuel selector and jack it up to play with the gear. I cannot wait to get my new tires on (Thanks @LASAR!!!). I also got my Whelen Chroma-series drop-in LED bulbs in for some pictures. Of course Whelen still says they are expecting full approval from the FAA so we are waiting on those to keep everything kosher.

One concerning thing is the only nav source is the GTN650. If it quits, such as by water getting the avionics access panels, you have no nav capability.