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I think its sad that this thread has focused on the basic pilot skills , that I have no doubt , that the pilot possesses , and is WAY more qualified than myself , or most of the pilots on this site.... This is not about runway length , aircraft performance , weather conditions , etc etc ..... You are focusing on things that will never help you as far as this accident is concerned , This is about a breakdown in the decision process , and that's where you should concern yourselves.... It happens to all of us , and we usually get away with it....... If you want to learn anything from this accident , its about what interruption , or distraction caused a qualified (well qualified) pilot to make the wrong decision and almost lose his and his passengers lives..... Its time to listen , not to judge....

August 2016 I was delivering my Mooney M20c to my mechanic, Bobby Norman, at the Parr airport (42I) in Zanesville Ohio. I had interaction with Bobby years ago, and he came highly recommended by a number of local Mooney owners. I had thought the field was about 2300 feet (wrong, more on that later) so coming in over the trees I pulled the power to idle, put it in a forward slip and came down. 75mph over the numbers, flared and BANG!. Hardest landing I'd ever done in anything. At the top of the bounce I had a choice, and decided to ride it out. I was uncomfortable trying to go around at a short strip in that predicament. The aircraft bounced a couple more times and stopped, and I taxied back. I had struck the prop in that landing, quite badly. The prop was bent asymmetrically, and the craskshaft busted. I hit hard enough that the force went through the gear into the Johnson bar, wrecking the mechanism that holds it in place (Bobby only figured that part out when he started taxiing. He said it was quite exciting). It took 9 months for the tear down, prop repair, and everything else. The engine repairs were done by a very reputable shop, and the aircraft is now back in service. I just did the first oil change after the teardown. I would have overhauled the engine at this juncture, but it only had 700 hours, and I didn't have the money. What I did wrong: The first thing is entirely insidious. I should have checked the length of the field, since it is now a very comfortable 3k feet. Why didn't I? Because the last time I was there it was 2300 feet! Hardest thing in the world is to override personal experience, but sometimes we really have to. Of course, the other big thing was pulling the power over the trees. Once I got into the runway environment the aircraft didn't have the energy to overcome the sink. Why pull power? Normally in this situation I maintain 12-13" manifold pressure, and use a forward slip. Indeed, most of my landings done this way are well within 2K feet. So why did I change? Worry about a field that I thought (incorrectly) was short. Even if it was 2300, I could have landed the Mooney in it just following my normal procedures. Talk about rubbing salt in the wound. What I did right: riding it out and letting it settle turned out to be the perfect move. I had an asymmetric prop, a badly damaged engine, and I was at a somewhat short and very narrow strip surrounded by hills and mountains. I don't know what would have happened had I put in the power, but it wouldn't have been good. Sometimes its just better not to add extra energy to a bad situation. Perhaps if you don't you'll prang the airplane, but if you do you get to be the one pranged. I recall a fatal TBM accident nearly identical to mine, the aircraft landed hard and struck the prop. The only difference is that guy put in the power at the top of the bounce, and now he's dead. I can't put into words what this did to me. If you noticed me gone for an extended period, its because I couldn't show my face after this. I think one thing might give you an idea, today is the first day I'm thinking I'll actually stick with this aviation thing. I've sort of been on the fence thinking about bailing for the last year. With any luck this will help someone not make the mistake I did. At least it had one silver lining. Hopefully I'll never say I landed worse.

Don, your post strikes me as self-serving self aggrandizement at the expense of someone who is big enough to admit a mistake. Perhaps there's a time and place for this sort of chest-thumping, but it seems in very poor taste here. YMMV.

We flew 9 Mooneys over Suffolk VA on Saturday for the local festival. It was 9 ships in 3 elements A, B, and C. A was a two ship, B a three ship, and I was in the rear with C in the 4 ship. They had me fly C2 which involved doing some cross unders and holding onto lead like a shadow. C3 and C4 joined up in fingertip, went to diamond, and reconfigured fingertip. I crossed to the right for a four ship echelon right followed by an overhead break to landing in trail. You can watch the entire flight in 360 degrees with cockpit audio here. You can pan and tilt to look in any direction at any time for a real life experience of the view from charlie element. Click the buttons in the top left corner, or grab the video screen with your mouse to change the view, or drag with a finger on the phone (may require youtube app).

Kudos to the pilot for coming clean and giving us all information that we can/should use to improve our own safety. I see multiple lessons here. It's easy (in fact, probably easier) for experienced pilots to get complacent and expect positive outcomes even in marginal situations. It also shows that even the "best of the best" (sorry, Top Gun reference) can have an off day. And yes, a combination of primacy skills (use those rudders) and good engineering (Mooney roll cage) turned a bad situation into something less than horrible. Awesome. This was a graphic illustration of a simple phrase that I picked up from our good friend Mike Elliott during a BFR a few years ago, borne of his personal experience. I repeat this phrase usually on every pre-flight and run-up, and it's simple: don't be in a hurry to die. That applies in just about everything we do when we take to the air.

Coop - I’m so happy to hear about the positive outcome of this incident. Also, sharing your experience will help others. In my first year of ownership I experienced the “behind the power curve” environment that Don described. I was doing a go around on a botched landing with my family aboard and got the plane in a nose high attitude that resulted in the plane just not wanting climb despite full power being applied. I was caught in ground effect about 10 feet above the ground with the gear retracted and the stall horn wailing. It took every ounce of will power I had to push the nose forward in order to begin building airspeed. I couldn’t imagine being in that situation with trees in front of me. Thanks for sharing.

You know, CD is a stand up guy. I'll fly with him anytime he gets another airplane. I'd volunteer to be the first to go with him. Not many would openly talk of a mistake just for the possibility that it might help someone else in the future. I think his posting has done just that with several here. His integrity is beyond reproach. We all have made mistakes in airplanes (even me:-). Some of us are alive just by luck. I've been around this business for over 50 years and the best education I've had has been reading of others misfortunes. I've done it since I was a Student Pilot. My first instructor got me interested in doing just that. As I have posted several times before I'll say it again- One is never a safe pilot until one becomes "tempered". One doesn't become tempered until one makes a mistake in an airplane that scares the living crap out of you and YOU know you made the mistake. Once tempered, flying takes on a completely different perspective. CD, if we ever meet dinner is on me. It would be my honor.

What you say about thrust is true, but there is a difference to how the M20 airframe climbs compared to a say a C185 (I use these examples because it's a recent comparison for me). The plane I was flying recently checking out in was a P-ponk 185 with the 285hp O-550. I had a ball with it (thought it flies like a truck) but one of the things that stuck with me was the pitch (read trim as the airframe is not exactly light in pitch) required to get even 500fpm out of it. It requires quite a bit more than the M20 for the same ROC. The M20 airframe (my experience is in mid and short bodies) climbs relatively flat compared to other non laminar wing aircraft. If one is not used to this, the temptation is to keep pulling when the correct action is to wait as long as possible for the airframe to accelerate.

Had a very similar situation at an unfamiliar airport in my first year with my J. Shorter runway than I was used to. Pattern altitude was also an unusual-around-here 2,000ft above the field with tall trees. AWOS reporting light and variable. Came in a little hot but not too bad, floated, floated (must've had a little tailwind too) and decided to go around a little late. Retracted all of my flaps and gear too early. Stall harn buzzed. I had to fight the urge to pull up with the trees and the end of the runway approaching. Pushed down with all that I could (trim was up for landing). Got the nose down, built some speed, and made it over the trees with some room to spare but a little too close for comfort. Now, after my instrument rating and more short-field work, my go-around technique- and decision making- is much better. I truly appreciate everyone who shares their experiences, good and bad, it helps us think about the situations that we would have not otherwise. Glad Cooperd0g made it out okay.

It is not what Don said so much as how he said it, where he said it and when he said it. In my opinion, it lacked class and tact. Some perfectly good pilots are oblivious to such. Kinda like bedside manner. YMMV.

I'm glad it couldn't be further from the truth. FWIW, Gus wasn't the only one to "misinterpret" your post. It seems a number of us took it the same way, i.e., in poor taste.

I'm not going into details on a public forum, but my 252 will fly with just about anything you can shove through the door. But then like most stuff, runways here in Texas are larger than usual. Nevertheless the 252 and the Pilot are working to loose weight.

29.7 pounds, I'd rather tell Nancy to leave her purse behind than give up my 20 year old O&N bladders. In fact, after winning some new CiES fuel level sensors at Summit, I'm seriously considering adding the extra 10 gallons now available from Griggs.

I shared the story here because I wanted other people to learn and I didn't want to hide anything. That is they way we do mishap reporting in the Navy. I gave the exact same information to the NTSB duty officer and the FAA inspector at the scene after I was out of the hospital. I showed the FAA inspector all of my flight planning, take off performance data, weight and balance, etc.

I practiced power on and off stalls with a CFI prior to ferrying the Mooney home to Florida. But the sensation is all together different when treetops are in your peripheral vision. We were loaded pretty full, but not quite at gross and definitely not over gross. With the three of us and full fuel we could carry an additional 165 lbs. We were about 80 or so pounds under. We don't always practice flying at, or near, gross so I'm sure that was a factor. I shared here because I do believe it is possible to learn from other's mistakes. I read many of the accident reports and it is difficult to see how I would make the same errors, but there are some that I could see myself making in the right conditions. I let a moment of distraction nearly kill my family.

CD just thought I'd add that am so glad you and yours were able to walk away from this an because you had the courage to let us all know what happened and were able to do so. Instead of a debate on what we thought might have happened we have been having a productive discussion that for me has added quite a lot of useful information to my knowledge base. Once again so happy you are alright and hope you get back into another underpowered GA airplane soon.

Ditto what Mike says. And in preparation for a Mooney, make hitting exact speeds the norm in your flying.

I disagree. Don is simply pointing out the importance of type specific training. We've had 3 Mooneys from this board crash in the past couple weeks. For as safe as airplanes are, we are doing a terrible job of representing the fleet.

Hey all, Thanks for the responses, I checked the download area and they weren't there. BUT - I just got them from the factory! Frank at Mooney HQ was really quick with his response and provided them in less than 24 hours. I will add them here as well as go to the download section and see if I can upload them to there as well. The manuals are described below if anyone needs them. M20C, E, F, G – IPC 1968 THRU 1976 IPC Illustrated Parts Catalog - Publication Number => MAN205, Revision 6-77 M20C, E, F, G, J – S & M 1968 THRU 1978 (INCLUDES M20J 1977 THRU 1984) Service and Maintenance - Publication Number => MAN106, Revision 10-83 MAN106.pdf MAN205.pdf

Mine is hardwired with the terminal coming out the same hole as the GPU/APU/External Power plug. All you have to do is open the little, spring-held door.

The FAA has some free texts available online... Free and online are two of my favorite attributes for basic knowledge that changes only glacially... Jeppesen does a nice job delivering the same info in a nice, but more expensive way. PP thoughts only, not a CFI... Best regards, -a-

Do stop by! It makes sense that the cell that' hoing to be adjacent to the new one might have to be replaced with one with connection(s) for the new one. I'm going to talk to Griggs, Lynn would like to see the installation procedures before he agrees to do it here vs. taking it to PA. My intention would be to treat my old E to a new paint job after this mod and @Sabremech's cowl.

While Edison may be good, I have to plug Paul Beck and Weep no more. You wont find a more knowledgeable and honest guy on this subject. He will patch if thats all you need. He is also a founding sponsor of the Mooney Summit... he puts back into the Mooney Community unlike Edison. Hank, you and 120 others had a few and enjoyed catering because of Paul a couple of weeks ago. And his quality and reputation shows. The Bravo I fly shows a weep we just discovered this week. Its going to Paul in April, as that is how far out he is booked. Oh, and I only live about 1 mooney hr from FXE. Pauls name in your logbook is like having Dmax's.

I bought the King courses. I've done my private, commercial, instrument and multi engine training through King. Yeah, Martha and John are goofy at times but I believe they do a good job. If you're confused after watching them you can call a CFI (no additional cost) and they will walk you through your issue. You will then have the video courses online to view anytime you wish. After completing the video courses and practice tests you will pass the FAA written with flying colors!!

First, thank goodness "all's well that ends well". I also appreciate having the person who went through the ordeal explain what happened. Having said that, if ever there was an example of the importance of having good Mooney specific transition training including all maneuvers included in the Basic Wings Program this was it--no matter the experience level of the pilot. Here we have an ATP and CFI make incredibly inconceivable decisions and stall the airplane on takeoff. Had he received a proper checkout with more experience flying at the edge of the envelope there is NO WAY he would have taken off at that airport with runway behind him. It also proves why I don't do Flight Reviews any more; only Wings Programs. The Wings Program requires the pilot to do power on stalls. I have the student do Power on stalls at 65% power. Do you know the attitude of the Mooney with only that power setting? Imagine the attitude at 100% power. It's unbelievable! Then couple that with the laminar flow wing of the Mooney. Laminar flow wings have a much steeper "backside of the power curve" than the non laminar flow wings of other models like the Cessna 182. That "J" was going to lose altitude at that attitude. And to "secondary stall" the airplane requires loading the wing on the primary recovery. Ouch!! This was a "lack of training" accident in my opinion leading to the resultant poor decision making. With lack of adequate training it was a case of "not knowing what you don't know" about the airplane. The accident chain began back with the lack of a proper aircraft checkout. This should be an eye opener for those who read this thread. I thank the pilot for sharing what happened in detail, so that others can benefit.

Had a good flight last thursday from east TN to west Michigan, then flew up the shoreline about an hour on Sunday. Awesome views. Today, went from N Michigan to NE Ohio. Severe clear until getting close. Areas of IFR/LIFR... Shot a VOR approach and learned that sometimes fooling around with the gps to get information that isn't really necessary rather than just flying the dang approach can cause more distraction than I care to have when in imc.

Not sure bladders ever got approved for the long bodies, either. I'm with Don. I'm a petty dedicated DIY-er, but happily wrote the check in Willmar many years ago to fix my J tanks. I figured the expert would know the tricks for those naggy little details to get it done correctly the first time, where I might need several tries to get it done. Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

Best I can tell from Google Earth, the pilot left about 2000 ft to the tree line by choosing to depart from the intersection past rwy 01. The performance chart indicates he needed about 1600ft to clear 50ft trees at gross weight in calm winds. That margin goes away awfully fast with a less than perfect plane, a tiny shift to a tail wind, and/or any other little pilot error. If a Top Gun grad can't execute this takeoff safely, then there's probably no one else here who I would count on doing so reliably, irrespective of their Mooney experience. Thanks so much to Cooperd0g for sharing. It makes me rethink how I approach a little 1981 ft strip where I land occasionally for practice.

Thank you for posting the details Cooper. If it can happen to someone with your training and experience, it can happen to anyone. I hope that you find another Mooney that suits your needs. Be well!

The insurance will pay as long as it was not intentional , and his medical , and certificates are current , That's why they call it an accident , and not an "on purpose " Can we please keep the conversation to the actual accident , and not concern ourselves with things that are NONE OF OUR BUISNESS .....

I know what you are talking about (ASRS via NASA) and no, I did not. I called the NTSB as soon as I was out of the hospital. A couple of hours later the FAA inspector was already at the scene and I went back to talk with him as both he and the NTSB duty officer had requested I do so. I was told that I did not have to answer any questions if I did not want to, but that is not my way. When I was done the FAA inspector said that because of my candor there would likely not be any regulatory action, but there would most likely be a requirement to fly with a CFI for decision making and stall recovery before I could fly as PIC again. I have a feeling this wouldn't really qualify for that anyway.

As I mentioned, I planned to back taxi and use all of 19. A person local and familiar with the airport mentioned the option to takeoff 01 with the intersection also as an option. I should have stuck with my original plan. I don't know why I decided to change. Clearly I shouldn't have. It was a lapse in decision making.

Totally agree Alan!

Cooperdog, I am unsurprised that an officer of our military is up front and honest about a crash due to his own mistake. You exemplify what makes our military the envy of the world. Thank you for your honesty and your service to this great nation. I am grateful that you and your family walked away from this harrowing incident, be it luck or the genius of Al Mooney.

Yes, the pilot is here. Yes, I recently purchased the aircraft. I flew from Pensacola on Friday and landed at W75 with about 10 gallons remaining. I filled up Saturday morning (54 gallons on board) and was planning to continue to New England. I checked the fuel during preflight as usual and I saw no water. I looked at the windsock as I finished my preflight and it was about 5 knots with a slight crosswind, but favoring 19. My plan was to back taxi and use the full length of 19. I looked at the windsock again as I was about to taxi and it was limp. I don't have a voice recorder so I'm paraphrasing from what I remember. During taxi, Unicom asked me my direction of travel. I said north. Unicom said that the winds were light and variable, not favoring a particular runway, and that no traffic was known to be inbound. He said I could use 01 if I wanted to be closer to course. At this point I was at the one taxi intersection with 01/19 and he said I could take off from there or back taxi and 180. This is where I made my first mistake. The taxiway intersection is not in the middle of the field. It is closer to the approach end of 01. But if you look at the taxiway diagram it is a short runway and the intersection cuts off a significant amount. I allowed this distraction to alter my plan and I elected to takeoff runway 01 from the intersection without fully considering the decision. There are trees not far past the end of the runway. I don't normally climb at Vx, but as I saw the trees I pulled for Vx and made my second mistake. I over-rotated and entered a power on stall. As I was barely over the treetops while I was attempting to correct, but the sight of the trees right beneath me tempered my forward pitch correction and I re-stalled. I lost lift on the left wing, rolling left. I did not have enough control to really pick a spot at that point, but I had enough rudder to keep the nose between the trees. Or I didn't and it was luck. I honestly can't say. It happened pretty fast by that point. I am a Navy pilot and TOPGUN graduate. I have my ATP and CFII. I completed my BFR in a 182 just a couple of weeks before I bought the Mooney. I am meticulous about safety and planning. I used to preach to students about the three things a pilot can never use: fuel in the truck, runway behind you and altitude above you. I frequently talk about complacency as a major cause for accidents, not just in aviation. I want to be clear, I am not attempting to place any blame on the Unicom. However, I allowed that brief conversation to distract me from my very solid plan and change to a very poor one. The left wing sheared off from the tree on the left side. The right wing entered the house with the fuselage and was leaking fuel. Debris from the structure prevented me from being able to open the door enough for escape. Neighbors called 911 and told us to stay put, but fuel was leaking and I wanted us out. A man who happened to be at the airport and getting ready to fly saw everything from my intersection takeoff to stall. He jumped in his truck and found us. He took charge of the group at the house, got the power to the house secured, apparently there was house wiring on or around us, climbed into the house and started pulling debris away so we could get out. This man subsequently held out gear, picked us up from the hospital after we were released, took us to his home and then brought us to a hotel. I am forever in his debt. The footwell crushed around my legs, but I was able to pull them out on my own only with minor abrasions. My plexiglas windshield was shattered and I have some lacerations on my head and bruising on my right arm. My wife was in the back seat next to our 13 month old son, who was in his car seat. My wife has a fair amount of bruising and soreness. My son has minor rash from his car seat restraints. Fortunately the home was unoccupied. We are very fortunate.

Some photos from today's work on the F model cowling.

If I were you Nopo I'd go the 220NM and maybe even get a ride in a Lancair Turboprop.

Not to derail my own topic, but I even carry my PLB when I’m hiking in fair weather. Even on well traveled trails there exists the chance of injuring yourself or finding someone who is injured and it can take hours for someone to hike down and find help. On that note, I also carry MREs, water, a life straw and a small survival hit.

I've been communicating with Chris Murley of Griggs this morning. As soon as I get to talk to Lynn Mace about the installation which seems pretty straightforward I will be ordering the additional bladders. I don't have the STC in hand but I estimate I'll add about 10# to the empty weight of my E. I think I can cut my personal empty weight by that much by the time we do the install. Yeah almost 8 hours minus reserves. I'll be stocking up on Travel Johns.

I've used Dauntless for my A&P, commercial and ATP. I like it a lot. And it is one of the cheapest out there. https://www.dauntless-soft.com/

"Self Aggrandizement: The action or process of promoting oneself as being powerful or important." Couldn't be further from the truth. Sorry if you misinterpreted my post. It was all about training and what I perceived was the root cause of this accident. . From my perspective it had absolutely NOTHING to do about me.

There may be other yoke bushings. The first one is on a 1980. This is what is on my F model with the yoke retrofit kit that Mooney sold to me in 1997.

On the older models, the phenolic blocks are held in with half-spherical aluminum pieces. There are small washers, as spacers, between the tabs of the two spheres. This allows the ball to 'float' in the spherical holder, otherwise the spheres will hold the shaft so firm that it can't angle itself slightly up and down as you push and pull it through its range of motion. I believe the new ones are the same, but it is doubtful the factory messed it up if the sticking is a recent occurrence. LPS3 is definitely too thick. I suggest using either LPS1 or silicone spray to clean all of that out and then lubticate with TriFlow (or just reapply the silicone spray every annual.)

Very nice, thanks for sharing.

I've visited Gus several time. Great neighborhood, and it's in a great location south of Atlanta.

I’d file it anyway. Just in case something does apply and he can “walk away” from that element. -Seth

I wouldn't open my battery box every time, thing is a pain the six. I hooked up the business end of a cheap motorcycle tender to the battery, and snaked the leads out of the box into the engine bay. They're tied off there. All I have to do is open the access panel and plug in. The same tender kept the battery in my Cherokee charged for better than six years. Make it simple to get at and use, last thing you want to do on a cold day is fumble around with the battery. What are you doing to keep the engine warm?

I've actually removed the fuel item from my before landing checklist and moved it back to descent.

The first 15 minutes of this are all about the M20K 252 TSE. Thanks to @"Chocks" for pointing out my 252, N252AD, flying in the opening formation flight scene. Look for it at 0:45 into the video.