Leaderboard

Just had new items put in the plane....the Garmin GTN650 with the Lynx L3 transponder....like anything else there is a real learning curve, but I do like the layout and the touch screen is really nice as long as it isn't too turbulent. It was more money than I wanted to spend, but it is what I wanted.

Love this location! Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

MIO, Start planning today... Plan A: Mooney Summit VI Plan B: Mooney Summit VII One day, all the stars align and you wake up in Panama City beach... shaking hands with 100 people you almost know well, and a few people that you do know well... discussing topics that are important to you learning something new It only took me five years to make it happen the first time. I hope to be back next year. Make it happen! Best regards, -a-

Hmmm... thanks for all the input. I have so much to consider now. Didn't think about moving the NAV 2 indicator or other things around or the extra space that will be eliminated. I still like the idea of having the monitor in front of me. I'm not IFR now but can see how ridiculous the instrument scan would be if the engine gauges are primary for power and they are where they are now. Most of my IFR flying when it happens will be single pilot IFR. I'm sure I can train my wife to be a flight engineer but that is as far as she wants to go at the moment. Thanks Much! Jon

I'm a total rebel. A misfit. I bought a Mooney, redid the panel and I didn't go with JPI. Then, I didn't put my engine monitor right in front of me, I put it at the far right side of the panel! Of course I do have a vintage Mooney with a vintage sized panel, which I actually like better than the now standard 201 size panel! I really don't pay attention, do I? Funny thing is though, I'm so out of touch that for the last six years I have been absolutely satisfied with my panel design. I have zero regrets and wouldn't change my monitor's location if I were to do it over again. It really does work just fine over in the waste lands of the airplane panel. I do have big warning lights mounted right in front of me though, and they do work to get your attention! I vote "B" position and also suggest you check out the EI MVP-50. I love mine. Super easy to use and very intuitive. Ever wish you could talk to somebody on the phone when you had a problem that actually helped design the product? At EI you can. Anyhow, here's what my backward ass self did-

Had an interesting bit of IFR flying today in actual. Coming to Butler, KBTP, the AWOS was reporting 800 overcast. The GPS runway 26 approach (which the wind was favoring) was good down to 600-1. Great. I shoot the approach and can't see a break in the clouds down at 600. I hold the altitude till the end and go missed. On the missed, I listen to the AWOS and now it's reporting 400. Approach asks me to say my intentions so with the wind being only about 4kts down 26, I said I'll try the ILS going the other way. The ILS is good to 300-1. With 400 overcast, that should be ok as well. I shoot the approach and down to the DA, I've got nothing. I figured even if it's slightly below minimums, if I could just make out the rails, I could get an extra hundred. Neither the ground nor the runway lights, I go missed again. Now the AWOS reports 200 overcast! ATC asks my intentions and I said I'll fly the published missed and hold till the weather improves. After about 15 minutes of holding, I was getting pretty tired so I figured I'll give it another shot and go somewhere else and take a break before coming back if it doesn't work out. It was reporting 400 so I had a shot. I fly the approach and as I cross the FAF, the AWOS goes back too reporting 200! I thought of cancelling the approach but figured, heck, I can use the practice so why not? I fly the approach right on the ball. I broke out at about 400ft, just a little above minimums and spotted the runway. Something was odd though, the runway lights were not on. I didn't need them this time because I broke out, but they could have made it work last time. I clicked the mic a bunch of times and then they came on! Doh! For some reason, it just didn't occur to me to activate the runway lights in daytime. Usually if I fly an ILS, it's either at a towered airport or at night and I know to click for lights. Butler is uncontrolled and it just didn't dawn on me to turn them on in day time. Nothing unsafe, I held to minimums and went missed the other times but dang those lights might have helped. On a 2 hour flight, I ended up spending an entire hour shooting 3 approaches to minimums and holding. I ended up being more exhausted from that last hour than I was from the other 4 hours of xcountry flying all day. I can fly to Florida on a nice day and be less worked than an hour of hard IFR. Instead of picking up my passenger and going right away, I took an hour break and got food before getting back in the plane. So two things I learned were give the mic a bunch of clicks when shooting an approach and the weather can go up and down quickly in screwy ways. The only way to know if you can really make it in or not is to give it a try (as long as you can honestly hold to minimums and go no further unless you have it).

Im sure Bob would if he had the time. His current position at Blackhawk Aero has him tight for his time as it is. Bob is a board member of the Mooney Summit, Inc. and plans to be and speak at Mooney Summit VI. He was unable to attend this year because of getting a project done with the FAA at Blackhawk demanded his participation. Yya, its a long way for you to come, but Andrew has made the trip across the pond twice for the Summit. Heck I flew CarolAnn Garratts 201 to the Summit, it has seen OZ a couple of times now. There are ways

For those who forget history they will repeat it or so it says- On a Cessna 140 the data plate was fastened on top or the glare shield inside the cockpit. Some old airplanes its on the left door post. No one but the manufacture can make a data plate. BIG No No. That's why data plates are so valuable to re-builders. Without the plate the airplane never existed. Historical note- what you are reading in the FARs is a modern rewrite and not historically correct going back 50+ years. The FAA guy is a newby and probably doesn't go back 20 years and is only reading AND was only taught the "new" regulations. There was a time 30 or 40 or more years ago when ALL airplanes were required to put the make, model and S/N on a small metal tag riveted to the underside of the fuselage under the stabilizer. This was for identification on the ramp by the FAA or LEOS because the data plates couldn't be seen from outside in the place the manufacturer put them (you're thinking sometimes bogus N numbers maybe :-). All airplanes should have complied but obviously many did not and IAs didn't catch it at annual time. Get a letter from Mooney that yours is in the spot that the factory put it legally back when and ask the Feds to look up the old regulation about a metal tag being placed on the aft fuselage where they say the data tag should be. Get a small tag made (your A&P can do it) and rivet it on the back (2 rivets). All perfectly legal IF the Feds only knew what they were talking about.

I will be replacing my stock wing-tip lights with these this annual. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/ultragalactica.php They are three in one, Position, Strobe and tail. I picked these up during the Mooney Summit thanks to the generosity of Aveo.

Not a great picture, but here is the light @Maraudersold me awhile back. It replaced my non-working all red coffee grinder beacon. Strobe Vid.mp4

It's a training app- can't use it in the cockpit. It only simulates what the G500TXI would look like.

I would personally skip the pelican case and use something like this https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01N1X4SNO/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I3I2BVBLL24H8G&colid=2V31Q846IHVQO it is water proof, much lighter than a pelican, and has back pack straps if you need to move.

EDM 930 above the co-pilot yoke. I have had this unit and layout for 5 years and think it reflects correct priorities. The left panel is devoted to: attitude, (Aspen and backups) altitude, (Aspen and backup) air speed, (Aspen and backup) angle of attack, (CYA 100 and Aspen) horizontal/vertical flight path, (Aspen and backup) synthetic vision, (Aspen) traffic, (Aspen, GTN) weather, (Aspen, GTN and stormscope) JPI RAD for MAP/RPM/Alarms. ISTM that none of those functions should be pushed out in favor of the EDM. (It's not about how much the EDM costs! The backup AI, altimeter, and ASI are cheap but more critical to safety.) At cruise, with STEC50 and GPSS taking care of most of the above, I study the EDM.

I compromised.

I think the act of examining your fuel situation before landing is more important than switching tanks. We are all capable of figuring out if the selected tank has enough fuel or not. The hazard is forgetting to switch tanks and running one dry without noticing it.

This is a great point. When I am switching tanks prior to landing I do it before beginning my descent. I was taught that you want to switch while flying straight and level so that's what I do. Maybe that's just an OWT, I I don't know.

Here is the latest update.. I'm quite pleased to announce that the insurance company will be having the plane repaired. Just as some have suggested here, there appears to be no spar damage and the existing wing can be fixed and a salvaged one will not be necessary. Some of the factors that went into the insurance company's decision was the overall condition of the plane as well as its equipment. This is a huge load off my shoulders because as I mentioned earlier, I've been scouring ads for something comparable and we would have fallen way short. Once Six-One-Zulu takes to the air again (in approx 5 months), we will bump up her hull value. Thanks to all of you for your support.

I've been looking at putting in an engine monitor and was looking at the Insight G2 or EDM830. Wondering if there would be any rebates coming up I searched and came up with this from JPI's site. It is not showing up yet on Aircraft Spruce's site. I think I might end up going with the EDM830. https://www.jpinstruments.com/rebate-specials/

I escaped hurricane Irma by flying, it took people I talked to 12-18 hours to get out of south Florida/Georgia , took me 3. Of course unlike earthquakes, we had time to fill up.

I don't know the science behind the sealant. Is heat or lack of moisture worst for it? Keeping fuel in the tanks could act as a heat sink to keep the sealant in a lower heat range. Especially for non hangared planes that have their wings in direct sunlight.

Why couldn't have Garmin just built it WiFi and or Bluetooth it was become as come as IPads and Android devices in our airplane cockpit. WiFi is in just about every electronic devices we buy these house thermostats and Refrigerators to Cars. The price of the WiFi has to almost irrelevant for price that we pay certified Avionics these days. I see in a case of the GNS 430/530 GPS navigators whey were around when WiFi wasn't cost effective. What is with FlyGarmin cloud service or whatever it is called the I-Tunes cloud service equivalent for Garmin which just about almost all the people I talk to about I-tunes absolutely hate. Why can't be just a simple CSV file that gets transferred via WiFi to my Ipad then we could import it into excel to google sheets or open office. then anyone can write software for it. It is not like Garmin and others don't make money off us after sale of a mutli AMU units that get installed in our aircraft. Money is still being may form database updates and os upgrades. rant rant rant...

The KI300 will probably be in existence about the time Garmin G5 will talk with the aspen, unfortunately

That's about right - here is what I see listed on an avionics vendor of their anticipated pricing for a C172 unit, $10,899, and I am hearing that other STCs will be priced higher for the same, as the market will bear so they will judge - I will guess an extra 1k. http://sarasotaavionics.com/avionics/gfc500-with-g5-attitude-indicator-and-g5-hsi

Yep, Mooney Summit VI will be in Panama CIty Beach, Florida Sept 28th-30th. 2018 with possibly other activities on the 26th and 27th of Sept. Stay tuned! We would love to have you visit! Here is a link to some of this years pics https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByEdyRXOYGbuM1ItbnlXdngwRlk

your installation served as my inspiration....however I could only go so far with my limited funds. and I do like my little volt meter...

Great stuff guys!! Additionally, if it helps- I have coffee, TP, pen/paper, PLB, cliff bars, and whistle in my kit! My plan is to be relaxing comfortably drinking coffee and offer some to the helicopter crew if needed. Aircraft spruce sells a crash kit Charlie that I've purchased for a few clients. I thought it had good value. 350ish etc. pretty good warm fuzzy. I'm still looking for some nice American or German steel knives. Everything now seems to me made in China. Office Depot sells a 10 man office survival kit. It has some water packs, rations, lights, survival stuff. I've gotten a few of them and modified them with some real survival stuff. They are a bit big for the m20, so I modified them more with a smaller backpack. Our work SMS program had some guidelines for a Emergency response plan. In the ERP, there is a crash scene list for a kit that had some good stuff in it. I just re packed out first aid kit for the Citation... it sucks!! That's my Next project.. Good friend at the airport grew up in the ID back country. We continue to geek out on these things. Be Safe, -Matt

re: TIT IMHO there are three factors to consider here; 1) we should all agree TIT matters, and we should all agree that EGT absolute temps don’t “really” matter. 2) We should agree that there is much more incorrect (folklore) vs factual information out there as to why TIT matters and why EGT doesn’t “really”, and 3) we should agree that a Mooney airplane / engine combination is generally no different from that of any other like-type airplane / engine combination. No one will successfully argue against the fact that the hotter you make steel and aluminum the more they will fatigue and eventually fail. So given that, my comments below are driven by a cooler is better premise, however, I am not afraid of recommended heat ratings or running my engine at those temperatures. I recently had a long discussion at KOSH with a design engineer at Hartzell and we talked extensively about turbochargers from the manufacturers' perspective. I’ll abbreviate the convo here but I would love to discuss any of this in more detail. I asked specifically about the M20M’s dual max POH TIT (1750 max lower altitudes to 1650 max at higher altitude) I just couldn’t wrap my head around why the diff in max temps? The turbo has no idea it’s higher up in the air and temp is temp as fast as the materials are concerned - so why the diff and why don’t we see that on most “other” turbocharged piston airplanes? His answer surprised me and immediately made complete sense. Paraphrasing: Hartzell rates that particular turbocharger for a max *continuous* TIT of 1750dF, and that turbo will run all day long and with expected longevity at that TIT. He went on to say that Mooney (not Hartzell) lowered the max TIT to 1650dF at altitude to increase detonation margin due to the higher and unmonitored compressor discharge temps at altitude. Ah ha! I get that! So I said that I monitor CDT and Inlet Air Temp and at higher altitudes I can see little difference than in the mid teens so I suspect my detonation margin is not changing based on CDT, right? To which he replied: because you monitor those parameters you will know if your intercooler is working properly or not, you (me) should be able to safely ignore that lower TIT limitation as long as the CDT remain low and reasonable. Interesting - so what about metal fatigue? His answer was simple - we design the turbo to withstand and tolerate that max TIT of 1750 and there is a adequate safety margin there for metal fatigue and blade stretch. We don’t want these units coming back for repair, so we set the max operating parameters with care. So the take away is, if you trust the manufacturer, then our collective arguments of running TIT lower than allowable to “protect the turbo” is largely flawed. So what about the rest of the exhaust system? Some argue that this is the weakest part of the mooney’s engine and by running TiT less than max you will preserve the exhaust components. Maybe - likely - but no one can really say for how long or in what consistency owner-to-owner. But more importantly, TiT is not directly representative of the “rest of the exhaust system”. TiT is higher than individual EGT’s because it represents the additive effects of the pulses of heat collecting at one point AND under increased pressure at the entrance to the turbine hot side. Before that inlet, the individual EGTs are cooler (some can be 100dF cooler ) and after the turbo, the aggregate exhaust is at least 100dF cooler. On my Bravo I have a second TIT probe (TOT actually) at the exit of the turbo just past the V-clamp. I added that to monitor for a (unlikely) sudden failure of that section and it's always 125dF lower than real TIT. What this says to me is that if you are running the max TIT of 1750, you will be likely be 1650 or less in the main exhaust system. If you run 1650 max TIT then the math works out to be 1550 or less EGT and that is where we find most non-turbo systems running at decent power levels. Happily I might add. Some may argue that you’ll burn probes out faster at higher temps. Probably, but again how much faster? I think Mooney recommendation is to replace the TIT probe at 200 hours regardless, but I think that’s overdone as well. Thermocouple probes have gotten way batter in just the last decade, so they are lasting longer and staying accurate for a longer period of time. All that said - we agree that cooler is better, so run your engine where you want. But I would suggest that we should not be afraid to run the power up and go fast while not exceeding the limits, and also not being shy of approaching them. OK, let me have it! :-)

As soon as I can get you in, will strive to make it happen. I have to have my meeting with my FAA inspectors to see if they'll continue the field approvals when I'm done colliecting data. Maybe I'll just need a little more data! There will be as long as I have one available to make a mold from. Thanks, David

while I don't work on airplanes (much) I do control wiring for a living....the Mooney's are really wired well, and their wiring diagrams our the very best. Its not really "rocket science"

Same numbers for my C. No idea if they changed when the Hartzell 3-blade was put on.

Keven, he said "have it", not "have to". I understood him to mean he wouldn't drop below min unless he had contact and was in a position to make a landing per regs.

Same in ForeFlight

I may have missed it, but also purchase a 406 PLB - personal location beacon. I am equipped with a 121.5 ELt but within reach in the cockpit is a 406 pearsonal locator beacon both to use should I survive and am conscious and also will still be there as a backup once I replace my 121.5 ELT with a 406 ELT. Plus I can take it sailing, on hikes, skiing, etc . . . Anywhere “off” road. -Seth

I've heard the TXi line was originally planned to release in 2015, so yes, it's been in development for quite a while! I expect a different response after Dynon gets their STC, which is now past the time frame I was told at OSH. Hopefully they're close. Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

Thanks for the detailed response Ned. I know North Bay and Northern Ontario very well. I have been for multi day back country canoe trips and I run freight trains for our national railway into North Bay and Sudbury so I know that there is a whole lot of nothing up there. I haven't been up there a lot in my airplane but plan to do some trips at some point. I have to disagree with the suggestion that it is not needed in this area of the country. I live around the 43'rd parallel (North Bay being around 46 I think) and we had the temperature drop below freezing on the 1st of September this year. Even on my trip to Maine, I was in contact with ATC for all of it, but there were times I had to drop below a cloud deck and he said he would likely not see me below 4000 feet. We did part of it at 3500. If it takes even 24 hours to locate me the money spent will be more than worth it. I spent $400 on the kit, the rest of it I had. I don't want to be the person who suffers or even dies because he spent $400 on a new LED strobe for his Mooney but failed to keep an adequate survival kit. For tools, I have a Leatherman Multi-tool in there which is a good quality tool with multiple knives, saws, and pliars and many other tools. I also have a rope/chain pull saw. No shovel though. Thanks for the advice on the Pellican case. I think I might just do that. I was trying to think about ways I could attach ropes to the case if needed to drag in the water while swimming. That drysack is exactly what I was thinking of as an alternative option if one didn't want to spend the money on the case. I think it may be a better idea anyway and will reduce the overall cost of the pack.

If you do the B & C starter and a new Concorde, you might be able to take-off on DC volts alone.

Were I to spend that much money I think I'd want the box right in front of me.

PS, buy your EDM from Don! Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

Jon, My choice is for the 900. But if you locate it in position A, the buttons will need to be on top (unless you cut out the panel or use the flush mount). I would move the #2 ILS indicator up, and put the EDM900 in the second row, more to the right, near the engine controls. I would also give serious thought to an EDM830 - its less expensive, and way less work to install. Your analog instruments look good, and are all relatively easy to maintain and repair. Don

900 in "A". I really like having mine right in front of me. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Decided to waive the 3hr drive to meet the girlfriend for dinner and flew instead . Took 1.4hrs due to a 30kt headwind. Return flight was amazing; broke 200mph groundspeed cruise for the first time. Nice 115mph IAS climb at 175mph ground. That damn moon tonight is bright! Almost had to put my sunglasses back on. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I only switch tanks when I am in gliding range of an airport as it approaches me. Then I have all that time to fly on the new tank before I am out of gliding range on the other side. I also found that switching tanks as soon as I touch down on a touch and go makes me a better pilot.

Congratulations, Mike. You are so natural about aviation safety and working through the aftermath of things that didn't go so well... Keep up the good work, mentoring the guys that follow in your footsteps... Best regards, -a-

TIT absolutely matters on the M20M. Run high TITs and you'll be changing out TIT probes often and replacing exhaust components. I keep TIT at 1600 or below. If you or the previous owner ran high TIT your TIT probe may be burned up and giving low readings while it's actually much hotter.

Neat story! That's definitely an accomplishment to RETIRE as a test pilot. Tom

Can dare to dream, can't I...? This among the nicest panels I've seen.

Check your baffle seals. The owner of this K model couldn't figure out why his engine was running so hot.

I can't imagine investing the kind of money we do in engines, and running them without an engine monitor. I'm not nearly experienced enough, nor wealthy enough to think about running without one. It was the first money I spent on my M20C which didn't have one. And upgrading from an EDM700 to EDM900 was the first money I spent on my 252. @Bartman example here is just another reason for having one. After the C I decided any Mooney I was thinking of purchasing would be marked down if the previous owner flew it without an engine monitor. #dontflywithoutit

I wasn't able to make to much progress last night, however thanks to @Pilotos suggestion, the butter knife made short work of the panel on the left wing. Also, the Mooney nose gear holds a dog leash well, see Wilbur.

Zombie thread resurrection. Forflight just added the feature.