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Bad weather - no problem! Stall spin - no problem! Scud running - no problem! Touch N Go = DEATH!

The whole subject of touch n goes on Mooneyspace is, for me, a real head-scratcher. The subject seems to have become charged with more of the "who"is right than "what" is right. The military does touch n goes in more complex aircraft. The airlines did touch and goes prior to the age of the simulator. I believe we all did (and survived) TnG's during primary training. The Mooney is a relatively docile airplane and poses no specific issues. I've said it before: the touch n go is a basic maneuver. You learn it, then use it in your bag of tools. There are no FAR or POH restrictions. No one forces you to do them, or to stay proficient at doing them. Personally, I think those who are adverse to them have a deficiency in their training/currency/proficiency, they get paid by the hour and prefer to see the Hobbs meter run, or they scared themselves and didn't get instruction to bring back proficiency and confidence. YMMV. Like I said...it's head-scratcher.

We live in a free country. We are free to make our own choices on just about everything. Nobody is forcing anybody to do touch and gos. I have no animosity for people who do touch and gos or for people who don't want to do them. It just seems a bit strange to me. Sense the first day I had my hands on the controls of an airplane in '78 I thought that touch and gos were a normal part of flight training and didn't consider them to be a hazard until I got here.

1. They have a lot in common with a general go around, just at lower altitude. 2. Runway is unexpected slippery. 3. Wind has changed to a tail wind. 4. animal(s) have run onto the runway. 5. Arm men in trucks are speeding towards the runway, you realize you have landed in the middle of drug trade. 6. Earthquake has caused a fissure to open up. 7. You realize the runway is not wet, but flooded (possible here in Florida) ....

Couple of weeks ago my Accu Trak II started turning off heading. Called Cecilia in Tulsa. Explained problem. Kevin came on the line - told me how to take the box out. Sent back. Quick turnaround. Flew this AM - perfect! And, it was $96.80 - really - under a hundred for an aircraft equipment repair!! Thanks Brittian.

SOLD Oh... and as such... I say goodby to this wonderful community. You folks are awesome!

I remember a day back in the late 80s I was sitting in the café next to Flower Aviation in Pueblo CO. and watched a United (I think) 737 do 5 touch and gos. Speaking of Flower Aviation.... In the early 80' when you landed at Flower, a large breasted woman in a skimpy outfit and high heals would bring out a red carpet and give you a sloppy kiss on the lips. Oh how aviation has changed....

To me it's simple. It's a critical phase of flight and when you start throwing switches and levers, muscle memory takes over and you can put the gear up, or you can lose control of the airplane. Both are hazards and both are mitigated by bringing it to a stop clear of the runway, and then doing the after landing items. Several members on this board have done it. You own it now, and it costs about 12$ an hour to taxi the thing, or about 75c to taxi it back and take off again.

Don't make the mistake that I did. A new article and an interesting (I hope) story! http://engineout.weebly.com/articles/aviation-emergency-frequency

A lot of folks on this board missed out on a great bird.

I only remove seats while running LOP doing touch-and-goes with bladders.

I don't practice them, but have done them just to know what it's like and what it will be like if I'm ever in a situation where I must Go after a brief Touch. Therefore to be sure, I did them with full flaps and up trim. While the airplane quickly becomes a handful with full power, the flaps out and up trim, it wasn't so difficult as to be dangerous. I just went full power, lift off, then trim, then take out some flaps, then more trim, then gear, more trim, flaps, trim, fly away. I've done it both in the C with the manual gear, hydraulic flaps and in the K with electric flaps, trim and gear. It was pretty much a non-event in both. Just fly the airplane.

I would watch EBay until a control head comes up.

I didn't touch and go during transition training, but my airline pilot CFII had me do many during instrument training. It's no big deal . . . My limit is minimum 5000'. Land holding throttle to idle, reach out one finger and raise flaps (SOP). Check trim, it's often very close to Takeoff setting; lower hand to adjust as required, then back to throttle. Speed rarely drops as low as 45 mph. Eyes iut the window, steering wirh feet. Eyes glance inside only to check trim position. Never raise hand above throttle. Many touch and goes behind me, probably many more in my future. The DPE, Colonel and Wing Commnader in Air National Guard, had me do two Touch and Goes on my Instrument check ride . . . Mountains out of mole hills, guys. Mountains out of mole hills. Touch and go all you want, even if it's zero.

And that's why I've started using half flaps on my instrument approaches instead of full flaps. Much less trim change if I have to go missed. If I break out it still gives me plenty of time to select full flaps and trim before landing.

Logbooks never even occurred to me. I wouldn't want to pay shipping on a bunch of scrap paper anyway. But now that you mention it, I'll bet Bill Wheat's signature is somewhere on the first couple pages of the airframe log. Would you consider including that page? That would look really nice next to the data plate.

They have no real place in aviation, honestly. Nothing, except for a balked landing/go around, comes close to the steps you take in a touch and go. In a Mooney, or any complex aircraft, and as taught by the airlines...you don't touch a thing (except maybe flaps on a gusty day) until you are off the runway. And for take off, there is a checklist that requires a number of things, such as trim, flaps, instruments, flight controls, boost pump, etc...all things that are super important to get muscle memory and that would not happen if you were rushing to get it all done on the rollout of a touch n go. Take the extra 3 minutes, get off the runway, clean up the plane and taxi back to the threshold. Perform your pre take off checklist. Take off. Land. Repeat. IMO.

I'm in the slow process of a panel upgrade. I like the clean look but I'm currently planning on keeping my airspeed, altimeter, and a lifesaver gyro. I've gone back and forth about a hundred times between the L3 500 vs the standard three. I think my old eyes just like having part of the six pack still available. I'm not cutting a new panel until the day before the shop needs it...I change my mind way too often.

As long as you don't get a GPS fault you should be fine. It is just warning you that you may get one at some point during the period. You can always switch to VLOC mode and shoot a good old fashioned ILS!

I have the drawing, will post when I get home

Those sounds like "low approach" situations to me that would not require touching down. If there's a question of runway conditions it didn't happen between the fence and the TDZ and I would be planning for a low approach to verify conditions.

You forgot the steaks!

Just to be fair, I voted in both polls . . . .

It's already out there, Its called a TBM and is made by Socata :-)

Touch and Go's are fun. Do as many as you want.

I didn't know that was possible.

My dental drill would easily fit in there. Ask your dentist if you could borrow his electric lab handpiece with a E-attachment contra angle latch with a #4 0r #6 round bur. Or you could buy a cheap unit off of ebay for under $100. You might be surprised how often you'll use the drill. Much better than a dremel. http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Dental-Lab-MARATHON-35k-Rpm-Handpiece-Electric-Micro-motor-10-Drills-Burs-/201527992673?epid=1780369240&hash=item2eec012161:g:eUEAAOSwwKtZjWua

Nice to have you drop by. That was quite the busy summer. I got in a little over 60 hours of flying from June through Labor Day Weekend. We still need to meet up sometime. I've been flying to Phoenix quite a bit to visit family there so maybe when the weather cools down we can work that out. If not maybe meet up to catch Spring Training next year since it didn't line up this year. Looking at your stuff due I'm glad I went the Mooney route. It's not as new or fast as your plane, but I spent less on it that just what you had coming due.

Remind me to never use that IA.

Yea, so tons happeand this summer and nothing to do with flying I put my house up for sale in feb to cash in on the bay area market craze; didnt sell; Put it up again in May with the agreement that my dogs would not be around (the agent paid of staging, cleaning etc) so ended up flying them down to AZ to live with the rents for a while; Got to use my IFR for the first time to get through the marine layer (had to leave early because weather in phx was est to be 109F by 11am ) tower was closed so had to call ATC on the phone.. nice lady answered and had no idea what she was doing. Supervisor helpped her, but then she gave me 2 clearances which confused the hell out of me. It was 'cleared to kffz via the published odp, turn 090 within 1mil of the airport (route) climb to 3500, expect 5000. What confused me was that the ODP and turn 090 within 1 mile conflicted with each other; eventually she said, just turn 090 within 1mi. BTW the ODP is direct SJC.... got IFR release on the ground with ATC, who said; as soon as you can call me back i have 5 flights coming in and i have to shut down the airspace for you); called him 800ft off the ground, vectors me WAY the hell out of the way, then hands me off; next guy takes over... ask him for higher since i was still at 3500ft... he said 'what the other guy didnt tell you to climb?,, me: no, him: expedite your climb to requested alt, turn 20d right to avoid terrain.... me: well crap.. thanks for telling me., i cant see #%@. Canceled IFR around LA thinking i would be nice; Got to PHX airspace and was basically told 'stay out of the bravo, stay out of the surface area of scottsdale and deer valley, stay below 4000 ft.. blah blah blah; basically i dont want to here but cant tell you to go away either. Got below 4k and the temps were already in the 100's; Landed 10lbs lighter from sweating, dogs were hot but fine. Ended up selling the house 2 weeks later for more then asking; Started to panic because i had no place to live; Rushed out and bought a new construction spec house because there was literally nothing left; Pros paid cash for the house and it has 1gb fiber internet for $70/m cons, at the departure end of runway 30 of KTCY.... pros, i can ride a bike to my plane (1.5 mi away). Cons, touch and gos on runway 30 putting planes 100ft above my house. Im devising a plan to put a giant sheet on my roof that says 'if you can read this, you missed base' Plane went in for annual Aug 2nd.... still in annual because of back ordered parts. Figured since it was torn apart i should do the upgrades i needed/wanted. Ended up putting in the CiES fuel system, boom beam landing light and the orion strobe/nav lights. Should get it back either tomorrow or monday; Mid oct flying to vegas to have the chute done. Ended up doing the CiES because i had a scare a while back where a fuel sender went bad mid flight; Thought i was going to run out of gas in the middle of the desert. Since it was $1200 for the sender anyway, i decided to upgrade. Literally had 40k in stuff due for the plane this quarter because of life limited parts, annual, chute, insurance, taxes, maps...... All the money from selling the house found a new home in my mechanics wallet. Good news is my compression's are still rockstar, so at least i dont have to worry about the engine anytime soon, but now too poor to go anywhere. I knew this stuff was coming up, so i have been saving like crazy; still underwater a little bit, but should be debt (except plane) free by jan. Next summer will be the summer of samurai I have a buddy down in Tampa who wants to get his ppl in the spring, he wants to get his float licence and fish off the keys; so i think that would be really fun. Im also looking into a Alaskan caravan trip.

Upon landing, your engine and cowling area are actually pretty cool, temps are at there lowest point for 30 seconds or so. Maybe a normal start procedure is what the doctor ordered instead of a hot start procedure. As soon as your landing roll is under control you may try to lean the mixture for ground operations which may help keep the engine running, but I would also seek the input of a mechanic as to why it's stalling. Ron

Unlike PR-1422, PR-1005-L is like a lacquer that dissolves easily with MEK. It was never recommended for the Monroy Long Range tanks by recommendation from PRC de Soto. The problem with PR-1005-L is that with time it start peeling off and maybe clogging the drain holes on the ribs and drain valves. José

Hey! Sam Husk is visiting! Any dog flights lately, Sam? Any change to the priority list? So many questions... Best regards, -a-

@bradp My pager was broken Not sure what to say that my famous thread doesnt say already; I trained in a SR20, so going to the 22 wasnt much of a change other than the additional HP, but since i was already familiar with the planes characteristics it didn't feel much different except with when to start descending and making sure you arnt approaching the pattern at 180knts; oh and the massive amount of right rudder you need on take off. Having the power is nice for go arounds and short runways (mines a TN) having the turbos on a hot day makes a big difference. Going from a steam 172 to a sr22 i think would be a challenge; nothing is impossible, but thats between you and your CFI. You need to get a HP endorsement anyway and he isnt going to endorse you unless you can fly the plane. In general, there are a lot of pilots out there that rush though their training, then rush to get a bigger plane once they get their PPL, those are the people that scare me. People with 50 hours flying a SR22 and dont even know how to talk on the radio properly. I almost had 100hrs when i got my 22; I think if i had gone the mooney route after my PPL, i would have needed at least another 20hrs of instruction; Heck even with 250hrs and my IFR i would still need that much time

Ok, take a deep breath. There is a lot here to deal with. So, if it were my engine the first thing I would want to know is where is the oil going? You mention a whole lot of things some have nothing to do with oil consumption some may and more than others. If your exhaust valves look good on the borescope, 60's psi on compression is not an actionable item in my opinion. Background info would be very helpful. Operational profile, typical flight conditions. DOES THIS ENGINE HAVE AN OIL RECOVERY SYSTEM ? This is were I would start with diagnosis, don't make any decisions without all the facts you can gather. Finally, you may want to consider joining Mike Busch's managed aircraft program. His experts will have the best knowledge and advice you will ever get.

From Beechtalk, this:

The Encore (last version of the K model) was produced in 1997 & 1998 alongside another midbody, the Allegro (last version of the J model) and alongside two long bodies, the Bravo (M model) and Ovation (R model). In 1999 there were no mid bodies, everything was a long body, Eagle (S model), Ovation and Bravo. (I liked the theme going back then, Allegro (definiton: a brisk tempo), Encore (called out by an audience at the end of a concert to request an additional performance - Mooney owners called out and asked for the 252 to come back for an encore), Ovation (applause, etc), Bravo (well done, splendid - also "-B" designation on the Lycoming TIO-540-AF1B engine). The Acclaim (public praise) in 2006 picked up on the same theme.)

Tuesday morning flight after Irma passed. My parents weathered the storm despite me telling them I would come pick them up in the Mooney. Sent them these pictures to let them know "all is good" the sun had come out.

Here I am pushing it a bit harder.

Here is the real story of the Mooney retractable step servo manufactured by Brittain Industries. The rubber bellow for the step servo (P/N 4059-1) is a part number 1551 (seal only). It is not manufactured by Beech and it is not used in the KingAir. It is however used in the Beech elevator servos in conjunction with their pitch stabilization systems. The Brittain rudder boost servo used in the Beech King Air is a P/N 1900-7.4-1 which uses a rubber bellow P/N 1900-140. These are all proprietary parts of Brittain Industries, Inc. and the seals 1551 and 1900-140 are very different in length and diameter. The 1551 mold was damaged by a vendor in Missouri in 2013 and since that time the seal has been available only sporadically as the mold was moved from vendor to vendor in an effort to salvage the tool. In November 2016 it landed with a vendor in Ohio who has repaired the guide pins and the mold core and the mold now produces a cylindrical part. However, because of previous un-approved revisions to the mold the material called for on the design drawings now cures too quickly during the molding process resulting in a seal that is too thick for use with the servo assembly. Brittain is in the process of both experimenting with other materials and also working to produce a new mold entirely. In addition to use in the Mooney retractable step servo the Brittain seal P/N 1551 is also used in the Precise Flight speed brake system and as noted above, used by Brittain for production of Beech elevator servos in conjunction with their pitch stabilization systems. All other Brittain servo assemblies; aileron, rudder, Mooney elevator and King Air rudder boost are still being repaired and produced new by the company in Tulsa Oklahoma and they plan to have the step and Beech elevator back online by years end with the creation of the new mold for the 1551 seal.

With the exception of 5. Garmin, you just described exactly why I installed the FreeFlight UAT. The Garmin GDL-82 will probably be an easier installation, too.

If you've tried all those other things, like Jose says it's probably the KG-102A, which is the unit in the tail section that needs to be at least Inspected and Repaired as Necessary. But other than just checking to make sure it was set on Slaved and not Free, the KG-102A is the first thing they should have checked. If while the master on you hear it spinning but it's very loud then the bearings are bad. If you don't hear it at all it's failed. If you hear just normal gyro spinning noises then it may be ok, or the optical inside could need aligning. Ask me how I know? I changed out the KI525 and still the problem existed. The KG-102A only takes about a minute to come out of the airplane. I sent mine to Porter Strait in Tulsa and for less than $350 they replaced an optical component and realigned everything - fair and honest people.

My car simply never goes to the dealer. Its a BMW

My 0.02 worth after 55 years doing this flying stuff? Training is one thing, experience is another. All the training in the world can't replace experience! My mantra- You're not a safe pilot until you are "tempered" and you are not tempered until you make a mistake in an airplane that scares the crap out of you and YOU know you made the mistake. Once you are tempered, flying takes on an entirely different perspective.

I also went quickly into far more complex aircraft, (jets), and some real dummies less competent pilots managed to do it, too. I second the fact that currency is far more important. It is not so important that the doctor buys the new Bonanza, it is that he does not fly it enough to maintain currency. Why else would this joke have some validity? What are the four most dangerous things in aviation? 1. A doctor in a Bonanza. 2. A lawyer in a 210. 3. A Marine in a helicopter. 4. A stewardess with a chipped tooth.

I'm one of the guys @kpaul mentioned. My first plane was a 550hp turboprop, the T-34C, and in less than a year I was flying jet aircraft. But it was also my full time job of study, simulators and flying. Having said that, some people can't move up as fast as others and some people just don't put in the time to study, prepare and fly frequently enough. Flying is a physical skill, aviating is a mental skill - skip out on either for a while and you lose them. I would tell students all the time that flying is easy, being a pilot is hard.

I've seen a lot of Porsche 911 spin out mid corner and plenty other exotics almost park it in the corners. They receive the same comments that your instructor is saying. I personally agree that a sr22tn is too much aircraft for a new pilot. Retract does not add or subtract performance it just adds a little complexity. IMO there is a lot going on with a cirrus aircraft and you need to be dedicated to learn the proper techniques to manage it. Having lots of money does not always mean the individual is dedicated.

This... https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00M6QODH2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1 and this... https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-SuperSpeed-Micro-B-Black/dp/B00C7SPM4M/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1499000399&sr=8-5&keywords=usb%2B3.0%2Bcable&th=1 will solve your Stratus issue.

Just to pile on: I found that what I wanted and what I could GET were two completely different things. As far as value goes, it doesn't matter what the rest of us think (to a point, as re-sale is always a factor), it matters what you find worthy. Do you want speed, range, lift, load, etc... When I started shopping, I wanted a 252. Faster and easy to operate (due to the wastegate and intercoolers). I couldn't find a nice one that didn't have really high time. Had I been willing to wait for a couple of years, I'm sure one would have popped up. I listed the things that mattered to me, and realized I could have those capabilities on a couple of different models. In my own circumstances, I really valued speed, low time, and long range. I ended up getting a 231 (with aftermarket wastegate and intercoolers) and couldn't be happier. Were I shopping again, I'd still be starting with a 252, but I love the 231. FWIW

There is no way i am aware of to put a second alternator in a 231. The alternator is gear driven and a major engine modification would be needed. the 231 alternator is a weakness. The coupler is prone to failure, and the gearing is such that you either have to choose a fast taxi power setting, or put up with a Low Volts indication. its not impossible to live wtih, but not as good as the 252 set up.