Leaderboard

I don't think I've said it before, but I really want to just thank everyone in this group. You have all been a fantastic inspiration and sort of like family. I know some of us get in heated debates, whether it's about tires, LOP, or whatever but all-in-all, this forum has been an immense part of my ownership experience. Many of you have made contact with me via PMs, Facebook, texting and calling and many of you have been an immense help to rectifying problems, offering services, ideas, and sending me unwanted items I've had since joining the Mooney family. Being a young owner I really don't have the excess funds to chip in with the multitude of flying groups I'm in, but MooneySpace and the Mooney Caravan/foundation are two I am happy to at least donate a few dollars to even remotely try and pay back how much of a resource it's been to me. I hope to one day be able to spill some knowledge I've learned to newer members. This forum is invaluable and its member's nothing short of a family. Again, just wanted again to give warm-hearted thanks to you guys. And let's all keep the discussions civil because I might have more questions on tires soon

In high school I learned to make F's into B's and that helped me a lot in adulthood. Hope this helps....

Or just fly it to Arizona and find a place to park it. Nothing corrodes here. The air force and the airlines store their planes here.

Always surprises. I avoid spending any big money on upgrades the first year until you see what issues may come up. -Robert

I have one in my panel. I really like it. It integrates my 795, with my GTNs and my ipad. What I do is I have the map and my route shown on my 750, traffic or stormscope on my 650 and nexrad weather on my 795. I use the iPad for metar and approach plates and to modify the route. The 210 also provides me with a back up AHRS, although I find that I have to reset it each time I fly. It is amazing how far we have gotten... had somebody told me in 1993 when I started to use my first GPS what would happen in just 20 years, I would have had a hard time believing it. Oscar Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I installed FS210 in my G500/GTN750/650/796 panel and it is a GREAT upgrade for only 1 AMU. The iPad now integrates with the panel, flight plan loading is far easier and faster, the 796 communicates with the GTNs, and an independent AHRS, too.

Any element lead has full discretion as to who is on her/his wing. More often than not, and our growth has permitted this, each element is composed of pilots from a region who've flown together. A good practice - again, it depends - is to assign a newbie as "no. 2" to the lead who served as that newbie's safety at a clinic. As we have grown, and as strong leadership has taken charge of each region, that regional leadership has been able to do the line-ups for each element from their region. This was the first year we were able to do that 100%. Obviously, when a new region/squadron is standing up, it must depend on others (and other appropriate local resources) for support. So while West Coast guys came out to help Bucko set up Texas, now Texas sports a strong, active group that can support other regions. We all try to pay it forward, including helping other groups. Understanding comes with experience and knowledge. Come out and try it, and some of your questions will be answered ... and others replaced with more questions!

Totally saw the Mooney light! I'm sitting at Don Maxwell's place waiting on results from a pre-buy inspection as we speak. Here's to hoping!

Here's an update: We have been in contact with 8 customers who are reporting this issue. We've had a series of test flights with our test aircraft after updating to the latest G500 software. Unfortunately, we couldn't get our G500 to replicate the issue in our test bed aircraft but were able to replicate it in our lab. We do have a good understanding of what might causing the issue. After a few more tests and eliminating any other theories, we will be testing the fix. This issue is still the driving force behind Release 10.2.1 timeline. The plan is to still have this update approved/released in the September/October timeframe.

What are the choices...? 1) Sell, sell, sell... Best known outcomes. 2) Store it away... Monthly expenses, insurance and maintenance activities. Dehydrators and rat patrol... 3) Keep it active... Paying somebody else to fly your plane, all at your expense 4) Pickle It the best you can, come back when you are ready, absorb the costs for what didn't work out as hoped for... 5) What changes to your typical flight mission will occur by the time you get back...? 6) Buy a J when you get back..? It is hard to make ownership decisions without a better defined horizon than 1-3 years. Tune up the Disney channel sound track... 'let it go.....' Fill in the reasons of why you would want to keep it. Weigh them against the reasons why you would want to let it go. List the costs of keeping it. Real and possible. List the costs of letting it go. Real and possible. Working in Europe (and other areas of the world) is a great experience. I took some work friends flying around Manhattan when they visited the US... The time line measured in years is incredibly long... On the East coast, the monthly expenses would rival the value of the plane after three years. The worse that could happen... You spent the money, the cam rusts, and rodents moved into your plane peeing on the important parts. An expensive radio lets the smoke out when you turn it on No skipping on insurance, for all the odd outcomes that are possible... Tough choices... Best regards, -a-

The four best speed mods for any F model are: 1) 201 windshield 2) J model cowling (needed for speed mod #3) 3) RayJay Turbo Normalizer (gets you to altitude where you can get > 170 kts TAS 4) Long range tanks (no fuel stops and 1500 mile range) Taken together with modern avionics = a very capable airplane with is also affordable to operate. The other speed mods, gaps seal, etc... are just gravy. John Breda

There are retrofit kits to go from an F panel to a J type panel When I had my avionics done they took out the old panel and retrofitted with a brand new one like this see attached . My Mooney M20F is a 1967. I have also seen some STC's on other panel kits.

Alex, I think you have already contributed significantly. Your thread on buying and restoring an old Mooney has been read with great interest by everyone and continues to serve as a guide with many lessons for those that are contemplating the same. You have certainly shown everyone that with effort and perseverance Mooney ownership is possible and old birds can be brought back. I have seen others give up far too easily with fewer problems and have always refer them to your thread for inspiration. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

First, I check and add DISTILLED water every couple of months (basically before any trips). If you add tap water that would kill the battery. If you let it drop below the plates you've waited too long. Flooded batteries lose about 30% of their charge in a month, I fly weekly so don't need to trickle charge it. These are not deep cycle type, deep discharges are hard on it. Long hot starts are bad cause they drain the battery. Do the the big 6 cylinder engines use the same battery as Lycoming 4 cylinder? The AGMs being no maintenance and can take abuse that flooded batteries can't, but if cared for the Gills should last 3-5 years, depending on how often you fly. More flying, more starts, especially hot starts, less battery life. If Concord made a flooded battery they would have the same problem, AGMs is simply a better technology, but it's more expensive, you get what you pay for.

The connectors are the same on a 430W and a 440 or 540. If you can free up some space it is well worth the difference to go with a 540 instead of a 440. I was at an Avidyne weeekend training and everyone who had a 440 wished they had just done the 540.

OK, here's what I found out today. Took a sample to Sheltair and my line guy says this isn't avgas. He smells it and it smells like avgas. We then sump some directly from the truck and it is clear as well. I called AvFuel corporate and talked to the 100ll representative and here is what I learned. 1. Use a large GATS type jar for best results. Volume is important in determining color. I'm using a narrow sump tube. 2. Blue color is directly tied to the lead. Blue hue will vary as the blend changes from summer to winter. 3. The alkalyd (expensive ingredient) can have differing hues which will cause the blue to change. Someitmes the alkalyd will have a yellow color and when mixed with the blue turns the fuel greenish. 4. The proper way to check for color is to sump a quart and view it in a white porcelain bowl, not plastic. 5. Avgas, when mixed with jetA does not turn clear, it most likely will turn greenish, a result of blue and yellow. 6. There is a maximum amount of dye permitted in 100 ll but no minimum. 7. UV light exposure will clear the dye.

Remove the Gill and install a Concorde.

better wear your solar eclipse glasses when viewing this one! I have no idea who posted it https://lasar.com/contest/?contest=photo-detail&photo_id=1831

I have had poor luck with Gill R35A 14V batteries. I would not recommend Gill batteries to any Mooney owners. My last Gill R35A lasted only 3 months. Gill would not honor their warranty without me completing extensive testing on their defective battery. I recently replaced my Concorde RG35AXC battery after 6+ years. It would still start my M20J but had less cracking power. Also, the Concorde RG batteries do not need servicing other than routine charging & do not corrode the battery box. Darrel

Check your MP gauge on the ground with the engine off. At full power, you should be near to that number. 1" of loss is not unheard of. 27" at sea level to 25" at 2500' is a normal decrease based upon pressure loss at altitude.

Since you raise it, and there are many on this forum who don't know it, I will gladly share the Caravan formation story -- as I saw it unfold. 2005 was my first (cannot speak to earlier, but guys like Piehler and Jonathan Paul can) and yes, the gaggle is NOT optimal. I watched attendance decline year over year. I watched and listened to some pilots say "never again." I thought about that too. One year I rented a house under Fisk and what I saw after watching convinced me that the Caravan was still safer, as the pilots were all at least organized, briefed, in the same types and expected to be close. So I stayed with it and got to know more regulars. Among them were a few form pilots, not just JPaul but also Richard Bristow, Ernie Brock, and Mort Boyd. They regularly flew form with the B2Osh guys here on the West Coast and invited me to go. Numerous other people within and without had advocated going to an all-formation format. Others argued that we were too small a group, could never amass the expertise, we could never get people trained, and that we would "scare people away." Personally, as a GA-only pilot with no form training, I was apprehensive, but open. JPaul sponsored me to the board of directors and I was an element lead and on the board in 2009. 2009 was a turning point - we had an element lead who basically decided he didn't like the spacing in the element ahead of him and decided to fill it ... with his element dutifully in tow. On final, needless to say, there were airplanes where there should not be airplanes. No metal was bent, thankfully, but in the debrief what was more shocking than this element doing what he did -- we had all seen that -- but that he DEFENDED it. This individual had a boatload of ratings and an authoritative position. That discussion led to a decision by the then-board to try a form flight in 2010, and many of us immediately suited up with B2Osh to get ready...and then Sploshkosh happened, so we did not get to fly as a mass form that year (although there was ONE element that did fly in a vic from MSN to OSH). In 2011, we had half the flight as formation and half as "gaggle." While most thought it was success, not everyone agreed we should go "all form." Some still advocated we would lose people, we would scare people, wouldn't train, yadda yadda, But we announced all-form for 2012. Thanks to B2Osh and a LOT of work by a LOT of people, we successfully did all-form in 2012. Yes, we DID lose people, but each year our numbers have grown. Each year has been better and safer and, yes, MORE fun! And today our numbers are higher than the first Caravan...and better than 2009! But more importantly, we are a safer, more fun group. And thanks to volunteers stepping up, today what started as a few West Coast guys flying form is now five strong regional squadrons, with dedicated leadership, operations, and pilots and families who fly regularly together. In fact, as the B2Osh brethren "warned" us, we would be flying together a LOT more locally so we are able to socialize with many pilots we would not have met if we remained a once-a-year gaggle for MSN-OSH. We have many pilots who fly only regionally, or who only make OSH once in a while. We also have pilots who fly across the country to make a clinic. There is an informative deck at the bottom of the FAQ page on the website listing leadership and other key volunteers. There are also training materials and Ops contacts, as well as a "clinic-in-a-box" product for any volunteer who wants to take ownership of an event. Form flying is a team sport, and one must be an active participant. Hope this clears up the "history"...

Ah, I understand why you would think that: Conversation ----> change. Would that a simple suggestion from a wise person would have been enough, the Caravan would have been all-formation form the beginning! Remember, B2Osh abandoned the gaggle within a couple years of trying it. I do remember 2009 well, in fact, you were in my element, Fox, the last one.

Model Chronology.pdf They started at $123,000 new in 1986 and ended up over $200,000 in 1990.

Ah! I now understand why you might think that. Suggestion ---> Action (years later). Would that it could've been that simple...if a suggestion from a wise soul is all it would have taken, the first Caravan (and every later one) would've been all-formation, limited (as today) to pilots who'd recently demonstrated proficiency. Because certainly there were many such suggestions over time, including from B2Osh, who abandoned the gaggle within a short time of trying their first mass arrival. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A HUGE THANK YOU to everyone, especially Maurauder, for identiying that I need to update my GTN firmware.

Larry that's in part what we are doing if the Caravan management wants to have one, only letting the Caravan guys do the admin, training etc so as not to step on any egos or toes. The offer is on the table, as the attendee's would engage before or after the event. No biggie, just thought it would make sense since it has been requested as noted by Raptor's post here. Your call, your show, your rules, our location.

UCF is a great university, my son did his bachelor at UCF and very happy with it. A lot of housing for students in the area. Never had any problem flying VFR into KORL coming From KFXE. Be familiar with the Class B vertical and horizontal boundaries and stay out of it. Contact approach on 119.4 MHz for assistance. I always parked at Sheltair. They have good service. For best chance to get a free available crew car try to land before noon. There is plenty of hotels in the area but make reservations ahead. UCF football events attract a lot of the alumni and hotels get full. My son is an avid Knights fan. Go Knights

I would be head over heals happy to fly your bird for you while you are gone!

There is no way I'd try to pickle a Mooney and let it sit for three years. You might as well scrap it. I've thought of this scenario quite a bit myself. There is a chance that I'd get the opportunity to live abroad again. I would not plan to sell my 252. But I wouldn't let it sit either. If this scenario happens to me, I plan to find a partner or two who will either buy into the plane and use it while I'm gone. Or just allow some young CPL/CFI who needs to build time, to use it as long as they can pay the cost of running it. They'd be named on my insurance and so the plane is fully covered if something happens. This also allows me quick access to fly it when I'm home for vacation or otherwise. I'd rather let someone use my plane for free, than let it sit for an extended period of time.

Trot - the Energizer without a doubt. With the others, you'll blow through starter adapters like crazy, so go with the only really recommended starter out there designed to crank the IO/TSIO550 engine properly. I can get you a part number in the next couple of hours when I get next to my parts catalog. Steve

I might be able to do Friday.

The poster right above you has a refurbished Rajay kit for sale that will fit your F, complete with STC papers. Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

It can't be a backup to a pfd that requires a backup. The only stc legal places to mount the AI G5 is the primary location if you do not have a flight director or the turn and bank location if you do. However, I really can't believe someone would give you a hard time if you placed the additional life saving device off to the side instead. ...not really sure why I keep repeating this BS legal crap. What you should do is put it where it will be most helpful and find a reasonable person to get it field approved...like @gsxrpilot

I appreciate it. Stuart is a great airport. Charlie and I went up last week and I think he saw the Mooney light. A nice J will spoil you! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I recommend you let your favorite fellow mooniacs take it for a cruise once a week.

So is the Raptor flying now? Let's meet for lunch at Williston.

I agree with Byron. You should at least question them about the $1000 markup. If nothing else, it shows you're not a just check-writer when it comes to aircraft maintenance.

That video was awesome. That's what I've been fighting. Big difference in that and a 172 flare with the sight picture i used to have.

I believe since the G5 is dependent on pitot-static, if pitot or static ice over you get a red X, meaning you lose Attitude Reference. Until there are 10's of 1000's of hours behind these units I am still more comfortable with a Mid-Continent Lifesaver Electric Gyro with battery backup. These have 7500 hours mean time between failure and people are taking these out for EFIS backups making them very affordable compared to their new list price of $4500.

I vouch for Fernando and the M20E. Very well maintained E by an owner who puts money in the panel. The aircraft is maintained by Freeway Aviation a very reputable MSC. Neat history on the previous owner as well - PM me. Its a fast E - minimal speed mods and 150 knots all day. If I did not have my Missile I'd partner with Fernando in a heartbeat - exactly the type of partner you want to share and aircraft with. Feel free to reach out to me - this is a GREAT opportunity. The aircraft will and is hangered. -Seth

The Bo pilot could have been a clueless guy ( yeah there aren't any of those in the GA world), and who is to say he took off on the tank he fueled with potentially bad avgas? Glad it worked out for you.......I once strained a fuel selector and it was so dark I could not see through it....wish there was more consistency in the dye....

I've noticed that the amount of dye does not seem consistent. Over the years I've had some you can only see by holding up to white paper -Robert

There are two switches along one of of the rods. Just left of center to the rear. Might want to wash them out with some contact cleaner. There is also a brake on the motor that might not be holding causing the motor to run more to keep the gear up. Here is a video of the gear working.

Hmmmm... I flush mounted mine when we installed it back in June. It just so happens that an EDM-900 flush mount kit from JPI, fits the G5 perfectly.

Believe me, I am well aware of the bennies of tight ship formation vs. the older, slinky method. After watching the mess from the tail (well JP was right behind me), I asked Karl Ludolph (the real Jester) to speak with David Phieler about doing tight ship formations at the MAPA tent the next day. The rest is history. As far as unification goes, the Mooney Summit has always been open to any group that promotes Mooneys or its pilots, have had Jolie, the Ambassadors, Ladies love tail draggers, MAPA, Mooney Girls, Right seat ready etc at prior Summits. Bucko and I have worked on getting the Caravan formation guys to do something in conjunction with the Mooney Summit for 3 years now, and Lee Fox, Bob Bellville et al were finally able to put it together from the Caravan's side. We have plowed the political ground with the Mayor for the fly over the beach, and are in step with Tyndall where this activity is the norm, not the exception. Hopefully, next year, the Mooney Caravan group can set up a full fledged Caravan training either a couple days before or a couple after the Summit scheduled activities to allow for the time and attention it deserves and requires. Cowboy was against it when I spoke to him in Longview last year because of the commitment it takes, but perhaps that might now change

All of these paint shops will fix the dents on a per hour basis. If they have a senior plane before they have a script yet this can get quite expensive one they charge you 75 or 85 bucks an hour for bodywork. Hot worked on mime for two or three days but there was no upcharge for bodywork. They found about 15 small dents and I mean stuff that I didn't even know about. They also made a few rivet lines disappear as well. So I would shop around and be sure to ask questions to all the paint shops because you may get an extra 3 or $4kof bodywork which is going to make or $16,000 paint job turn into 20 really quick. I was pretty nervous about this myself and Joe kept saying don't worry we'll take care of it. And in the end he really did.

So... for those of you who went through this process, how much correction of imperfections do shops like Hawk's do? I have hail damage that I am sure with the new lightweight fillers they can address some of them. But what about other imperfections? Like a small dent or small cracks that have stop holes drilled. They patch those or is that all expected to be done before you bring the plane in for the paint job?

True - but I don't think it's that bad - most of the maneuvers are pretty low power - and anyway it was not like a school was training commercial students again and again in my plane - it was just me - and for like 6 months it served as yet another way to keep the bird flying regularly.