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In 2009 at Sun N' Fun Mooney had a checkered flag paint scheme on the tail. Should anyone who has painted that scheme on their Mooney tail since then and has copied a design which Mooney paid for be openly disparaged on this forum? If I remember correctly when others showed off their paint jobs on here, all they received was praise. Mooney used to have a design tool on their website to come up with a paint and color scheme. If you used that and designed something you liked, painted your airplane that way, but didn't buy a new Mooney or pay them for their design, would that be wrong? Does Scheme Designers pay Mooney a licensing fee every time they do something that comes close to ones of the designs Mooney has used in the past? I think it boils down to this: Some people want every detail exact and are more than willing to pay a company to do all of the work involved. Others are satisfied with a general design that updates the airplane and makes it look newer. They didn't contract with a company to design every detail and provide files for their paint shop. With all of the paint jobs that have been shared on Mooneyspace I can't imagine why people are singling out and vilifying JClemens and then further attacking his character in a much more broad sense in every thing he does. He had his airplane painted in a general 2000's Mooney design that is on many airplanes. It looks great. Can we be happy for him and move on?

I think I must have made a mistake and logged onto the Red Board on AOPA website. 5 pages and counting..... Are we really arguing over paint these days ??? Personally I appreciate the work that @jclemens is doing to restore and upgrade a few Mooney Aircraft. I hope he continues to do so and be part of this community, but sorry to see so many feathers ruffled over a paint scheme.

I am a Scheme Designers customer, having my Lancair design (not painted yet) done by them. So.....I think I have a vested interest in people not copying a design that I paid for without asking for my, or Scheme Designers, permission. I know they have allowed past designs to be used with the approval of the original owner, and I believe they were approved for less cost as well. That said, the design you displayed was very similar to a factory paint scheme and older Mooney owners have been copying newer factory paint schemes since forever. I personally have no issue with the design you proposed as I think all examples shown thus far in this thread are basically outright copies or spin-offs of the FACTORY design. Tom

The easy way to end this is to put @jetdriven back on the Ignored users list. It's a very useful tool on this forum. I wouldn't be surprised or offended if some put me on that list. This arguing over the rights to a paint scheme is so much to do about nothing. @jclemens is a becoming a pillar of the Mooney community the way he keeps bringing them back to like new condition. Certainly it's for a profit, but there are also much easier ways to make a profit in this business. I've never had a plane painted, but my 252 will certainly be going in for paint at some point in the next couple of years. You can be sure I'm looking at all the cool paint scheme's I can and taking notes. I'll pick the best ideas I can and hopefully come up with a stunning paint job. And if someone else wants to copy it, I'll be flattered. Just my $0.02 I've got a few on my Ignored Users list... @jetdriven isn't one of them though he's actually got really good insights on stuff... just not this.

Except that the scheme was arguably not original in the first place. You leave that part off. If this scheme had been unique I'd agree with you, but it's the most common Mooney paint scheme these days and I've seen a bunch of em including from the factory. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I just decided that when I sell my old E I will not be listing it here. Who needs the armchair experts telling me, and everyone else, that sight unseen, my plane was overpriced by 25%. And these are my friends.

This is especially important in my opinion with the vintage birds. If you're going to paint a C or E, at least make sure it's got an autopilot, and WAAS GPS. And even more important, get the speed mods from LASAR installed before spending $12K on paint. A paint job is very personal and so from a buying/selling perspective, I'd be buyer much quicker on a plane that had all the pieces installed but desperately needed a paint job, rather than one with beautiful paint, but no speed mods, panel, or other issues. The paint should go on last after there's nothing else to do.

Don't let 2 guys here get under your skin. They seem to take pride in being ill mannered. Nice 201, thanks for posting.

Wow, what a team. Just spent *way too long* reading this thread, and I am so encouraged by all the support and 'free' experience you guys have given to a struggling newbie. Being a newbie myself, I can say I've been intimidated to ask for help (it gets easier as I get older and more humble) but this thread really makes me glad I bought a plane and has the "can do" that makes doing this awesome. I sure miss flying in the US, and I'm glad we have MS, so I can read encouraging stories like this. Strange place to introduce myself, but I'm so enthused by what I've read, that I must. I'll write the story on a new thread for everyone, as it may be helpful to someone, someday. Thanks guys, for all that support and encouragement. The collateral impact is great and appreciated.

Peter! I think your Swiss watch replacement has arrived! They wouldn't hold a seminar at Oshkosh if it wasn't real, right? We expect a pilot's report in August! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Geez, I never meant any offense to anyone. And I kinda agree with Paul's analysis- $45K would be reasonable. My point was that it would be worthwhile checking the logbooks for any "damage history", and maybe use it as a (minor) bargaining point.

Who would fly a Piper with a name like that!

Well, I was guilty of this just last week. I had a freezer that would not defrost. Probably the thermostat inside the box I say to myself. Amazon the part, get it in the mail, slap it on. No love. Oh, it must be the defrost timer is bad. Same drill, same result. It has to be the connections then, it can't be the inline heating element, they never go bad. Trouble shot all the connections, messed around for a few weeks with this damn box. It can't be the element,mthay last forever........... Okay, let's ohm out the element just so I can get back looking for the real problem........ Hmmmm. No continuity. I'm holding my leads wrong, or its on the wrong setting.......Still no continuity........Dumb,sh;t. You just became a parts replacer.....

Damn. Why didn't I think of that. I looked up the owner, I'm calling the paint police right now.

Now known as Paintgate.

I like Brian's math.

I am not making light of it. As some here know I have battled Lymphoma twice over the last 20 years. Caught early (any type of cancer) there is a much better chance of positive results. Both times, after very difficult treatment, I came back, got a special issuance and I'm still flying. Get thoroughly checked every year! Never give up

Good Saturday morning Mike. Love you too.

The real question is how many beers does it take for him to plant a 60' row...

That's a KX170B in the panel which will probably be receiving and transmitting long after all of us are gone. However the face could use refurbishing.

If I were browsing photos online of paint jobs I like, how am I to know who exactly designed it? And with hundreds of similar, if not identical, schemes - I would be very surprised if a copyright claim could ever be enforced. Not a lawyer, but I do sell custom designed art for a living. I also see that the copyright only seems to apply to work found on their website, followed by a claim that many of their clients have sued and won. Id be VERY interested to read even one of those cases

You may have the most accurate clock but if not set to the correct time is useless. So how do you know when is noon time at Greenwich? UT1 is the principal form of Universal Time. While conceptually it is mean solar time at 0° longitude, precise measurements of the Sun are difficult. Hence, it is computed from observations of distant quasars using long baseline interferometry, laser ranging of the Moon and artificial satellites, as well as the determination of GPS satellite orbits. UT1 is the same everywhere on Earth, and is proportional to the rotation angle of the Earth with respect to distant quasars, specifically, the International Celestial Reference Frame (ICRF), neglecting some small adjustments. The observations allow the determination of a measure of the Earth's angle with respect to the ICRF, called the Earth Rotation Angle (ERA, which serves as a modern replacement for Greenwich Mean Sidereal Time). UT1 is required to follow the relationship ERA = 2π(0.7790572732640 + 1.00273781191135448Tu) radians where Tu = (Julian UT1 date - 2451545.0)[13] Solar powered clocks were invented before winding clocks and they always were in time. Check: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundial

This is similar to mine. After the gear up landing, the insurance company only paid for the minimum amount of work necessary for the engine and airframe repair. Overhaul cost would have been on the owner. Hence why I have a 600 hour bottom end and prop and 1850 tsmoh.

That was my feeling as well. I would never even consider copying a unique design. After reviewing tons of the designs on scheme designers website tonight after being accused of doing so, I am pretty certain that not everything on their website qualifies as a unique design. There are examples that range from period correct warbird, iconic designs that everyone recognize, and some that are certainly of their own creation. But, by and far, there are a ton of minor deviations to factory paint schemes. There is even one in the Cessna examples that is just white with one blue stripe (and a fish on the tail). There is no way that a white plane with a blue stripe is copy write protected. I always felt that scheme designers product is the drawings and stencils they provide to paint shops in order to put the scheme on the plane. This is a great service, worth paying for if you have a airshow quality paint scheme in mind you want applied.

OHG Peter, leverage him to not post anymore of his girl photos for the use of your paint design. We'll all donate to you for holding those pictures off line. You will probably get more that way than if you SOLD him the design!! Tom

Also a sales pitch to go to LEDs Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Anyone can copy anything they want and do so everyday. But the overwhelming majority does care and take the time to extend the courtesy of asking. Since I had my airplane painted there have been several folks who have asked me if it'd be ok for them to utilize my scheme. Some even have asked me if I'd provide the files for the paint shop. This is the first time someone just arrogantly stole it. I'm actually flattered that it's so appealing and popular! Tough job to be a leader but somebody has got to do it!

Ah come on moonbat, you know down deep you want one. On my weekly pilgrimage to the avionics shop during my recent upgrades, I saw 3 planes in for Aspen installs. Those owners look like they were waiting for Christmas morning. And the one who was getting a familiarization was periodically letting out a "I didn't know it did that, WOW!" Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

No, mine will be blue... completely different

@Bob_Belville we all know that you're never selling your E anyway. And Mrs. Belville will never have to worry about it as she's got a long list of names waiting to bid on that E of yours. It will likely be the highest value ever awarded an M20 Echo. Your estate will be proud ;-) Just don't bend it between now and then

I expect the service on his Iridium Sat phone is as good there as anywhere. And just as expensive as well!!

Sometimes this approach is logical and effective. If you lack the equipment or knowledge, and your last resort is to call the expert, often, googling, picking the most likely bad (or least expensive) part, can save you having to pay the expert charge. You simply must realize what you are doing and be willing to take the hickey of sometimes buying unneeded parts. And this approach relies a lot on the fact that your time is free. This is a poor approach for a professional, but some of them do it anyway. Unless he carefully explains to you that his time charges are such that the replacement part gamble is worthwhile.

Rapidly becoming the POA forum. Arguing over everything.

That's the issue these days, there is another way. Realize collectively it's a grey area, we are all people of good will, and nothing here to go to war over. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The other side of that is the ethics and morality of claiming ownership of something that other people have already done, or just putting a tiny tweak or difference on something and then claiming ownership. These sorts of things happen in all creative areas including music, art, design, technology (it's a common thing in utility patent infringement). I think it boils down to the usual thing, "My side has the moral high ground and yours does not." Both sides have that point of view. Always.

I think I found the answer. His final destination today (Yangoon) has bad weather. There are many CBs all along. Yves

+1 I have had my eco-drive Skyhawk since 2005. It is the same model that @Piloto posted, minus the unfortunate Blue Angles paint job. After 12 years and 11 deployments it is still running strong. I have found that it gains around a second a week, so I am forced to reset it about once a year to stay within a minute of the Master Clock. Mine was before the Skyhawk had the atomic option. But I figure it cost about $25 per year at this point, averaged out, even most Wal-Mart watches can't compete.

Only if you behave from now until then!

How much interest you getting Brian? Jack has been talking about doing a Mooney fly-in here this Fall. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Take a look at this method for connecting wires in tight places such as the yoke. The butt method is definitely not preferred. This method may or may not have been used on one of the experimental aircraft close to my hangar. If you want them very strong just put a dab of solder on the Dsub connector terminal and when it's time to remove the yoke simply de solder.

Hey, you ask us to spend your money, we'll spend your money,

Got a great bit of utility out of the Mooney last week - I had a day open up when I could go "apartment shopping" at my new place of employment / new commute. Hopped in the plane for a 8:30 am departure and flew from KFWQ to KILM - 370 nm in about 2:35 just as a low pressure area and associated front was moving off the coast. Caught a fair amount of turbulence going out over the water and broke out at 800' on the ILS. I had a rental car waiting and saw about 7 places and had an informal meeting with my future employer. I don't know how those business folks do a full day of working and expect to fly themselves home in time for dinner - it was too much for me. I was done with my day just before sunset and was just about totally exhausted so I called it quits and pricelined up a hotel for the evening. Ended up having oysters and key lime pie and sent my family a wish you were here text from the restaurant. Flew home the next morning on a gorgeous clear day. As I was flying over the W-Va mountains the cumulus were starting to build and outclimb my cruise altitude so picked up IFR and had some fun in and out of the bumps. There are some interesting military planes down at ILM with the long runways and various bases near by. I got so see two harriers on the ramp, an Osprey formation flight in the pattern and a Navy C-40 doing touch and goes. I got home in time for my wife's graduation from residency. Fun trip. https://goo.gl/photos/7zeTuSbTkes26D8j8

I am not sure I would let your mechanic rig the gear if this is his understanding. @sabermech can fix you up with the right gear tools.

Sure, but you look like one of those circus apes riding it.

I'd like to thank... Jeff for doing the math... PV for the turbine logic on the affordability curve... Tom who shares the turbine Lancair math with us... And Hank for keeping it real... Go long term Mooney ownership! +1 Turbine Mooney before I hit the Octogenarian club... there is still room to dream... Best regards, -a-

Well, if you pull this off, I personally will construct a statue in your honor. I am in the process of trying to convert my covers from white to black (and getting rid of the cracked ones in the process). So... if you make them in jet black, I'm game. Until the statue is made, here is your interim recognition;

Alex, Have you tried Dawley? They are pretty reasonable. http://www.dawleyaviation.com/?_vsrefdom=adwords&gclid=CK6Ryuqx6tMCFVC4wAodqqgMhg Tom

I had a MSer, a fairly new J owner, ask me about the ram air in my M20E (he said it only was worth 0.1" for his plane). When I pulled out my ram air knob the MAP increased by 1.1". We were at 6000' but it is still worth 1 full inch at 10,000'.

Yes, the 231 went to live out west in Utah.