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There are probably a number of potential buyers who could afford a new Ultra. The problem is that why would they do that when they could pick up a fantastic Bravo at give away prices, put $100,000 into a top of the line panel and end up with a similar airplane for ¼ the cost all in?

Enough already! Does the C172 have a chute? The PC-12? We know what you Monday morning quarterbacks think, give it a rest or take it to the CirrusSpace space. Geez. The Ultras just got certified about 10 minutes ago. After rising from the dead to a viable company with a visible presence at shows, ads in aviation publications, a reinvigorated MSC network, a retooled factory, and almost 200 employees I am pretty certain the Mooney International folks need for this little corner of the relatively small GA world to be cheerleaders. A role I'm happy to play. I and my old M20E are much better off than we were in 2012 when I bought a plane built by a company with about 8 employees sacrificing to keep the type certificate active. Now, let's all stand and sing "Count your many blessings..."

I do get all warm and fuzzy when the FBO is expecting me and drives the rental up to the plane and opens the trunk for me to go right from plane to car... Bonus points for a silly little red carpet. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Robert, when you finalize your trip details, feel free to PM me. Our airplane is based at KLMO, and I live just a couple of miles from KEIK. Always happy to help out a fellow Mooney pilot with a ride or whatever. With sufficient notice, I can probably loan you a car for a couple of days if you like. My advice is to not necessarily get fixated on a particular airport. KBDU in Boulder itself is a decent airport in good weather. But KBJC, KEIK, and KLMO are all very reasonable driving distance to Boulder (about 20 minutes), so you have a wide variety of choices for approaches, runways, etc. All these airports have maintenance facilities and self-service fuel at reasonable prices. All have transient parking. There may be overnight charges at KBJC, I'm not sure about that, but you can always call and ask. I can vouch for the folks at Fly Elite Aviation in Longmont. They'll take care of your airplane, minimal/no fees to park on the ramp, and they have competent mechanics who are Mooney savvy on the off chance you have a maintenance issue (we have all our maintenance and annuals done there). If you're more comfortable with towered airports, KBJC is towered and has upscale FBOs with nice lounges, TVs, etc. As for KBDU, while it is indeed closer to the mountains and lacks approaches, the truth is it's rare to "need" an instrument approach around here. The weather tends to either be good VFR, or unflyable IMC due to icing or thunderstorms. Concur with the advice of others that things are statistically easier if you arrive in the morning, having holed up in Kansas or eastern Colorado the night before. But it's also completely reasonable to delay your decision of a specific airport until you're an hour out or so, then just take whichever of KBDU/KBJC/KEIK/KLMO seems best suited for the weather conditions. If you need or want to make a local flight for pleasure or to re-position your airplane, I'm available as an "advisory" CFI. No charge for fellow Mooney drivers.

New flight jacket for my copilot

Funny how the small things mater. For the last year or so my brakes had felt a bit hard and seemed to disengage a bit sluggishly. During annual I opened the bleed nipples at the calipers and nothing came out. So I pumped the brakes a bit partially to see what came out but also to clear any debris in the nipple itself. What came out was very similar to the aeroshell 6 I was using. Very thick and sticky. Bleeding was trivial. Picked up an oil can at the auto parts store with a hand pump on it and some clear plastic tubing so I could verify no air in the line. Then I just pumped 30-40 pumps of MIL spec up the caliper (draining the reservoir a few times to get the old stuff out). Now the brakes feel nice a crisp. If it wasn't for the fact that I fly several different planes I might not have noticed the issue but now that I've bled them it's night and day. Only regret is that if I'd planned it better I'd have ordered replacement flex line to replace at the same time -Robert

Another endless example of "Fake News". There is no story here at all, make something out of nothing to print some copy and get some clicks.

I'd vote to make MooneySpace a chute free zone. (I am a member of a facebook group: "beekeeping techniques", That group had to adopt a policy about a new gimmick that makes harvesting honey easy. The header post now includes: :PLEASE READ THIS FIRST. NO MORE FLOW HIVE POST. WE HAVE 2 POST ABOUT FLOW HIVES SO IF YOU WANT TO TALK FLOW HIVE SEARCH FOR EITHER OF THOSE 2 POST. ALL FLOW HIVE POST WILL BE DELETED FROM THIS POINT FORWARD.") IMNSHO, posts about chutes are our flow hives.

I rent a car like a normal person

The form is certainly no worse than the on-line application that we had to / would still need to complete for a Third Class medical Certificate. My family Doctor already has told me that he is willing to do this for me so I am not expecting any problems there. I see a lot of positives with this. First, I no longer need to see a government designated physician every couple of years and take repetitive, meaningless tests (I was on Special Issuance) in order to enjoy my hobby. Second, my family Doctor, one who actually examines me and knows my health and gives me a far more comprehensive exam than any AME ever did, will have input on my decision as to when I stop flying. It won't be decided for me by some Doctor in Oklahoma City or some beaurocrat in D.C. Third, I can have an honest discourse with my Doctors (family and Cardiologist) about my health and then I get to make an informed decision as to when I need to "hang it up". Finally, I'll get to go out on my terms rather than have something that is precious to me taken away by some stranger in a far away place. I saw this happen to my Dad and it should never happen to any of us. If you embrace the good intentions behind the program and understand that an effort has been made to better protect our freedoms for those who fly for fun, then I believe you will find a lot to be pleased with. It isn't all that we had originally hoped for but it is certainly a step in that direction. As someone else once said "for all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dream shall never die."

Really? You feel the need to compare Johnson's???

Saw this in the long thread about new Mooneys but thought it deserved it's own thread: https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2017/april/24/mooney-ceo-out Hopefully the third one is the charm for the current owner! This has to be a record, even with the brand's checkered history... Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk

I get air hawks cause at half the price they aren't half the usefulness or life of the goodyears. But with that said, why are you averaging 1000 landings per year? If you really want a plane to beat down like that, then rent a skyhawk. I'd be worried about the pucks and fuel tanks a lot more than the tires!

So this "reporter"had his phone on during all this ,or was he tweeting about his adventure hours later while at his hotel bar.A few more drinks ,and next he will be recalling how his expert advice to the pilots "saved the day"and caused them to land safely!

Just spoke with the guy, he said the "firm" price was an error, and is willing to come down a bit, I asked for more pictures and logs. We'll see...

Sensationalism at it best or worst whichever way you wish to view it. Oh and after the almost crash they flew around for an hour burning off fuel.

Guys, this was a Johnson bar thread that morphed into a how much to convert to electric. Really? Just buy an electric bird if that is your stroke. A Johnson bar is NOT hard to retract if you get it up before speed builds. If you wait it can be impossible. It is a non-event with some practice. Time to get a different plane or hang up the spurs. Try and rack a slide on a .45. If you can't do that you should NOT be swinging a Johnson bar. You are officially old and weak.

All that "news" article is doing is reprinting the twitter feed from one of the passengers... who "flies a lot"... like twice maybe. The whole thing sounds like a non-event to me.

I can't afford one so I haven't been watching it. I can afford my old M20E (barely, sorta) and I'm having a lot of fun with it. If you gave me a million... I'd trick it out and probably get a Lo Presti nose job. I'd add a C 180 on floats to my stable and a nice getaway place to take it to. Fishing trips with the 180 and cross country trips with the SUPER-21. Oh yeah and counseling for my wife so she'll dare to fly with me to the really cool places I'd be flying to. I'd probably have to bribe her somehow cause she has her own agenda. Spend half a million on a plane? That's nut's. Harrison Ford has the money and what do you see him flying for fun? A Husky. A Beaver. I don't think the newer more expensive planes offer as much fun per dollar. Of course that's just my opinion.

I would love a new two door Mooney. I would love a new Bonanza. I would love a P-51 Mustang, or a Corsair. I have an M20C. I'm happy because I can afford to fly. To fly an M20C is icing on the cake for me. Heck, it's too much money for my budget. As long as I get to fly. If my budget shrinks I will fly a 152 and be happy. I hope Mooney has great success selling those $700,000 plus airplanes. I hope there is a market out there so they have a long prosperous life. I would not want to own an airplane that cost more than my house. Just don't sound right.

Based on this my C is a good bargain! Make me an offer. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Get a good pre-purchase inspection from someone who KNOWS Mooneys, have the seller pay for all airworthiness issues, and use the rest of the squawk list as a negotiating tool. Many people recommend having 10% of the purchase price ready for other things that "appear" after purchase, but that was not my experience (other than a continuing avgas bill . . . )

Looks like fun...isn't there one Doolittle raider left....copilot of dolittles #1.... I feel so lucky to meet Gen Doolittle with my father Col Alex P Couch introducing his smart Alec youngest son to an aviation great.

Just so you know we don't have Hertz or uber when you get here.... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Be a good time to get some mountain flying experience.

I've done a lot of Mooney annuals, mine (F model and Rocket) and assisted with my A&P's E model and we have always used the 100 hour inspection in the manual. It is several pages long! You would be hard pressed to get an E model "inspection only" ( no squawks) done in 20 hours and actually have done a good job. My Rocket annuals typically run 30-40 hours with some (or a LOT of squawks). A few have run closer to 50 hours. I pride myself in the amount of squawks I can actually FIND. This is NOT a time to be looking at how "few hours" you can get through an annual. If price is a factor, put some owner sweat into it! Tom

Nothing like a good Mooney mystery. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

I guess I'm the only one here (thus far) who thinks the form is straightforward and should take the applicant minutes to fill out. I also don't think it will be much of a burden on the physician. But I am surprised that a prostate exam isn't one of the requirements, that can be a real lifesaver.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. But I enjoy my electric gear and flaps. Different strokes and all that . .

3 Romeo Whiskey gets around.

When I started looking, I also had a "list of wants" but no real idea on how to get there. So, I'm also going to recommend calling Jimmy Garrison at All American Aircraft. He spent the better part of an hour with me going over the different models and variants, which helped me enormously in picking an aircraft. One of the most illuminating things he shared with me: no one selling an aircraft in this day and age (internet) is selling it in the blind. With Vref and all the various websites, everything for sale from any source is probably going to be within 5-10% of its actual value. If you see something selling for $20k less than market value, there's a reason. And the same is true if you see something selling for $20k more than average. There's a reason... Take your time and buy the seller as much as you buy the airplane. Good luck!

The initial purchase price is just the starting number. For the first annual, I have seen many folks reserve 5-10% of the purchase price to correct things missed on the PPI or new since then. Set aside funds similar to the way you would pay for a rental and you will find annual inspections, repairs, and upgrades are much less painful when the bills come due. For your budget, you should be able to find what you want. Good hunting!

If you have not read this article, it might be interesting to do so. What the article fails to convey after all the hoopla, is that thanks to wonderful modern technology and thanks to those wonderfully trained pilots and flight crew, all passengers and crew members are alive and well .

I think so. I would have to check my airframe log books, and they are at LASAR while I am having my annual done. I looked at the Aircraft Spruce link and I think those are the same or similar. The ability to dim them is an excellent idea, and I have a panel mounted dimmer. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh and remember just prior to loading the B-25s on the carrier ,they had flown them all to McClellan where the Army mechanics retuned the carburators to spec which really pissed Dolittle off as he had them set really lean for max range.My dad was stationed there as a first lt starting in 1939.It was big maintenance depot just completed as a buildup for the coming war.

Certainly there are people who could afford a new Ultra. To Bob's point most of those want the depreciation allowance. In many case it makes more financial sense to buy new if you have a very profitable company. An item's book value as an asset and it's market value are very different. If one were strictly shopping on value, Don's point is spot on, buying a new aircraft over gently used one rarely makes sense from a value perspective. I agree with Jack and Dan that there are many folks out there can afford and want to buy 1MM dollar toy just to have the newest, latest and greatest. I know several of them; I can't think of one that actually made their own money. Maybe there are some self made folks that have new airplane on their "bucket list". However, by in large I find that anyone who'd spend a 1MM outright on a new asset when spending $400,000 used would get them nearly the same operational performance, likely didn't toil for that first (and most difficult) million themselves.

There's also a warning about flying over the field at the end of the awos tape recorded by the one and only don dolce haha

Go to the Dugosh website and they give a pretty good breakdown for Mooney annuals. http://www.dugosh.com/aircraft-maintenance-repairs MD

You may want to look at their STC replacement part. Very well made and corrects all the wear areas.

Ya I would say 40 hours would be the best number. Realizing a couple of the jobs are two people jobs. For both annuals, I have offered my IA more money than his quote. One time he took it next time he did not. They are the ones keeping you safe and their ticket is on the line.

2nd Saber's logic. They are > 3/4 of a million dollars! Who the heck drops that kind of coin on a single engine, unpressurized, recip aircraft? I do not get the economics. To be sure, ** I'm glad someone does do because it seems like the price drops by 40-50% in a few years with the used unit that has 500-800 hrs on the airframe and eventually those become the 30+ year old planes that I could currently afford. To drop that much you kind of have to have benjamin's to burn. If I could business justify dropping that much coin, I would probably go for something that would have range, load and dispatch capabilities similar to the airlines: Just my .02

You forgot the AOA

In my C if you lift off and get the gear up going about 80-90mph it's really only slightly harder than your recliner example, but if you wait and you're faster than 90 it will be a bit of a challenge getting it up. That was one of my major concerns when I first saw it but it really hasn't ever been an issue and I actually prefer it over an electric gear because to easier to maintain, will never fail you and it provides a bit of character to the plane Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Glad to see that the thread is lively and the issues are coming onto the table. Thanks for participating. I did maybe voice my original post in a bit of a provocative way but while those of you who pointed me to the relevant threads of course have a point, those threads did not explain why there was no mentionable interest from the outset. Actually, I was not very much referring to the cancellation when I said there was few interest, but it struck me that there was almost no discussion at the time when the M10 was announced (I realize there were some messages, but if I compare this to other product specific fora I read, it showed very few interest in the development) as well as when the Ultra specs came out too. My question why has been answered pretty much in the past 4 pages of messages. In short, the products offered by Mooney are way too expensive (which it has in common with most other companies as well) and even here, there is considerable doubt about the economical viability of such a new airplane. So in short, it is not only Mooney which have the problem that legal hassles (certification and product liability) has driven up prices for new airplanes to unreachable heights. However, some of the competitors are selling and have an avid followership who will buy the new products (which of course frees up used airplanes for those who can't afford a new one) and appear to be more solid in the market. The obvious question is, what can Mooney do to improve that. My personal theory is that Mooney lacks an entry level bare bone model which most competitors have, often not really with the intent of selling it but to simply show potential customers a base price which may be significantly lower than what the customer ends up buying. This is something every car company does but for the biggest luxury brands. Cirrus has the SR20. I don't have the numbers but I think it's sales figures compared to the SR22 are absymal. However: The client who thinks about buying will be attracted to start his thinking process towards a new Cirrus by looking at the relatively low price of an SR20, only to during the process switching to the SR22 he really wants. The question here would be, would he even talk to Cirrus if the base price of the lowest entry model was in the range of the top models. My personal opinion is, much less likely. Another factor which has been addressed here is the "wife" factor of the parashute. I agree. Cirrus did the shute originally to overcome certification issues but I guess it took them a very short time to find that the shute will do for their sales pretty much what that old chewing gum commercial did for sugarless gums: "I love it because it's the only gum my mummy allows...." I reckon that was and is a huge pro Cirrus argument. Many people, particularly spouses, are very anxious passengers and the comfort of having that shute must be an overwhelming one to them, even though some pilots may sneer. Personally, I think the shute adds a significant safety factor particularly at night and in low IMC. Of course this has it's price in terms of maintenance as well as payload. So where are we with Mooney in this regard? Mooney has no equivalent to the SR20 for starters but it has two top level models and that is it. The reaction in this forum here is more than clear, way too expensive to even think about. Mooney does not offer a shute system either, but is in good company there. And actually, Cessna sells a good number of C172's without them anyhow, I reckon the plane most hurt by the lack of a shute option for them is the Corvalis, which is the better plane than the Cirrus but has the same problem than our Mooneys... when a wife is confronted with the idea of a new plane, she will go "oh well, IF you have to have one take the one with the shute, never mind economy, speed or anything else.". I thought the M10 would solve the entry level issue quite well, while still offering a quite capable traveller with the M10J. I also thought that adding a shute system to the M10J would probably be feasible. Now that the M10 is dead in the water, we are basically back to square one. When I look at the M20, I am looking at those who sold best. By type, the best selling Mooney ever was the C model, followed by the J. Why? Because it brought the best bang for buck. In other words, it delivered the best performance (to this day) per horsepower and provided a stable and fast travel platform at an economical cost. The top models never sold that many, neither did the E outsell the C, nor did the models which followed the J/K series ever come close. With the move to big bore engines, Mooney moved away from it's core business of economical and efficient airplanes to luxury racers. A bit like if Toyota were to dump the mass product cars they sell for Lexus only. So what can Mooney do? In my opinion, Mooney needs an entry level offering more than ever, which has to be in the price range of maximum the SR20. To install shutes in the M20 cell is very difficult if not impossible, but they could set points which price and performance. For me, that kind of plane would have come fairly close to what the M10J would have been, but with the M20 cell. - A basic Mooney cell with a 180-200 hp engine, if at all possible a Diesel. There are NO fast Diesel planes around, a 170 kt Diesel (as the M10J was supposed to be) would definitly catch the attention of the market. I don't know if it would make economical sense to shorten the cell to J levels but if it could be done, it should. - Take the lessons learnt from the M10 and M20Ultra projects into the new entry level machine: More pre-fabricated parts, possibly more composite materials, less luxorious interior, possibly a bargain panel as well with Aspens instead of G1000 and possibly open avionic choice. - Introduce alternative avionic fits also for the top models. Not everyone likes the G1000 suite. This should be done with a minimum of development cost and work. Any newly developed plane should most definitly offer a shute as an option at least. Maybe this would bring back the interest in new airplanes also to those who live of the 2nd hand market. It has to be remembered that each of our planes had to be new at some stage and be sold to someone who found it attractive enough to buy. Without new sales, there are no new second hands either and the aging fleet we have will end up with more and more problems. So it can only be in our interest if the Company thrives and does not revert back to being a parts supplyer as it was for some years.

This forum and the Mooney name draws a lot of frugal individuals that will never own a new plane. Not because they can't afford the plane but because they feel it is a poor investment. People are less enthusiastic and often negative about things that are out of reach. Buying a used TBM, King Air, etc is a lot different than a new piston plane. Mooney pilots recommend having a spare 10k ready at all times to keep the bird in the air. With the mentioned turbo props you need to have at least 100k ready for this purpose. From what I've seen 1 out of 10 prospective buyers stopping by Mooney space are looking for planes north of 100k (most recently sub 50). This is a huge contrast to the buyers looking on other forms (cirrus/BT). Everyone would like a new or totally rebuilt Mooney to fly but very few think a company should charge enough to make a profit on this service. I'd love to have someone prove me wrong and put a deposit on a 300k refurbished J.

We all make mistakes don't be hard on the guy. We sometimes make those mistakes with our eyes wide open and full knowledge of what we are getting into after all most of us here owns a plane that should be enough proof in itself. As for the OP Tell us a little more about yourself and what your flying mission is. Tell us a little more about why you want to go from turbo to non turbo. Some of us here would like to go the other way. There are may folks here who are willing to help and one even looking to buy or swap with you. Finally like some others have said if you want to pursue that path then a different plane is probably the best path forward for you.

Hold out for a rocket. It's worth it.