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I think Maintenance induced failures will far exceed the gear issue if the AD becomes active. (If cases are split) -Matt

Don't have them. Don't need them. However, there are times they would be nice, but for me, that's only when terrain is a factor that prevents a long gradual descent. After 20 years flying the DC9 I got pretty good at "unable". At the airlines, if I used speed brakes it meant I had wasted gas (I could have come to idle sooner instead). I especially feel the same way now that I'm paying for the gas.

Removed the last baffle and then pulled the prop to install the new spinner bulkhead. I also put my top cowling on to check fit with the spinner.

Selling my 1963 C model. Very unique aircraft. Has Rayjay turbo normalizer. 4162 TT, 784.6 SMOH loaded with speed mods, Aspen, Garmin 430 WAAS, STEC 50 AP, ADSB out compliant. too much to list. (see pics) NO wing tank leaks! The negative on this plane is the interior. Needs replacing. I have a complete extra interior that you can have with the plane. Very fast little Mooney. 150 kts TAS normally aspirated on about 10GPH. 175 kts TAS with the turbo at @ 12.5 GPH. I use the Turbo mostly just to climb. It will hold 30 inches all the way up (i have not gone over 18K). Then turn off the turbo and enjoy great speeds at very low fuel flow. Bought this plane for my son to build hours. He has been selected for USAF Pilot training (proud Dad!!!) So we really don't need the plane now. Complete logs and very limited minimal damage history. I have owned since 2012 and have replaced entire exhaust. Also had Don Maxwell replace shock pucks with new style pucks. Annual is due this April, so would be a good time for annual/prebuy inspection. Too many details to list. Log book scans available. Just call me if you have interest and I will give you everything you want to see from logs or additional pictures. Price: $52,500.000 931-244-5344 direct email : kcowens@charter.net Ken Owens

I've had both the Robotow and the Redline Sidewinder - definitely worth the difference to get the Sidewinder for many reasons. It is geared perfectly for towing the Mooney in and out of the hangar and it folds up so you can take it with you if you want (22 lbs if I remember correctly). Very well engineered and well built - no comparison.

I've always said the biggest difference in a wood wing Mooney is that it costs 20K less for a 5 knot speed mod with its smooth like glass wing. I grew up flying when I was a kid with my Dad in his C model and have many memories of very harsh jolts in turbulence. Supposedly my A model has a softer ride in turbulence. The wood wing flexes which also give you a softer ride on the ground while taxiing. I once had a fuel leak in the right wing. It took me about 1 hour to remove the aluminum tank and a local welding shop repair it for $20. I think wood is a great material to work with and easy to repair. I would be lying if I said I don't want to upgrade to the J model but I love the affordablity of the A model.

In the modern world, we stopped hand propping 180 hp motors. Being an ordinary human, the risk of death and dismemberment is too high. Back in the day, I tried it. Fortunately nothing happened. Best regards, -a-

I am not going to argue, but I will provide some data. I bought my plane in 2009 and it needed and got a rebuilt turbo. SInce then I have put over 1,000 hours on it and have made 658 shutdowns. Some were after 4 hour trips, some after 15 minute trips. I tried the 5 minute cooldown before the turbo was rebuilt and it just seemed silly to me, after descents that were sometimes 45 minutes long and at reduced power, landings at even less power, and then a taxi in, it seemed to me that the engine and turbo were about as cool as they were going to get. I stopped doing "turbo cool downs" years before I went to the APS seminar. Their data just supported what I already knew. At any rate, none of those 658 shutdowns involved any turbo cool down. The plane is just now coming out of its 8th annual since that rebuilt turbo in 2009. No problems with the turbo. Do with that what you want.

Ditch the ADF and put it there. You will be glad you did. The numbers are small and having it right in front of you is really nice.

Truth! Even though I'm in the middle of a pretty significant avionics upgrade... it was all optional. And having the right autopilot to start, along with certain trade-able items, keeps the upgrade somewhat reasonable.

I've run LOP at FL210. Pretty cool to be doing better then 200 kts over the ground at 11gph or so. BTW... I've run a tank dry at that altitude as well. It restarts just fine.

Ross has been hanging out in the O club... -a-

Technically the seam on the left side is the level reference, it is the same on the right side as well. Of course, I had to level it on the left side too because my little bit of OCD that I actually have would not allow me to do just the one side. [emoji3] Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Yes, across the seat rails and here for pitch. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Look who I ran into in the camping field at Sun N Fun.... Me, Antares and 1964-M20E What a great day for an air show!

Speed brakes are kind of anti-mooney devices... - they don't increase airspeed. - they don't increase efficiency. Best regards, -a-

The problems may have been discovered while at full power, but that does not mean that they weren't caused by conditions created on the ground.

Good thread. J model here- I wouldn't spend the $ for speed breaks. In a slippery turbo it might be desirable in order to stay high longer, but in a NA plane- I descend at full throttle lean of peak at 500 ft per minute and I stay in the green. If I need to increase the descent I reduce the throttle- no big deal. I don't have any exerience in a turbo or in an ovation cruising in the mid teens, but I would lean towards having speed breaks to get a 1000 fpm descent when solo so I can stay high (cool) longer.

Maybe a little good news on this should the FAA go nuclear and adopt a rule requiring the new gear before overhaul as TCM advises. It is possible to replace the camshaft gear in situ without splitting the case. The engine still needs to come out with enough removal of things to drop the oil pan to give access to the gear. The rub is with the permamold cases that require just a little machining of about .060" of material that will interfere with the new gear. Continental wants the case split and a specialty shop like DIVCO to machine it. But someone is already producing a jig to position a grinder to accurately remove the very little metal that needs to come off. It's in a very small area. If this method is approved then the sting of replacing the camshaft gear can be tremendously lessened since it won't require splitting the case and R&R cylinders. Therefore far less invasive and requiring far fewer replacement parts - if approved. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Stephen, you will love the CIES senders. My accuracy with them connected to my EDM900 has been better than Scott advertises. Also, glad you were able to get your 900 installed in landscape mode. Word of advice from someone with experience doing this several times...Calibrate your tanks carefully and take your time dong it. This needs to be done with the airplane on jacks and level. No exceptions. Looks like you're in good hands, but happy to help if you have questions. Regards, Steve

Sorry I missed you there too. I ended up bringing Aaron back on that Saturday. Maybe next time.

Not exactly correct. It's likely true that an E is easier to fly LOP, but I flew my C LOP regularly. But as a rule, Yves is correct that a fuel injected engine is easier to fly LOP. I was in this very same dilemma four years ago. I really wanted an E for the performance of the 200hp in a short body Mooney. I ended up buying a C just because I found a much better equipped C available for sale. My experience suggests that its better to get the best airplane available whether it's a C or an E. Look for engine hours, speed mods, good autopilot, WAAS GPS, 6-pack panel arrangement, etc. These things make more of a difference to the utility and enjoyment of the airplane, than the 20hp will.

Just a quick update to let you all know that 38M was picked up by it's new owner yesterday. It was definitely a bittersweet day, but the new owner is an awesome guy with a great family, and I expect we'll see some posts from him in the not too distant future.

As the OP, I already said what I planned to do but wanted to hear thoughts from others....I appreciate ALL the thoughts and opinions expressed. I have 1300 hours in this airplane. As soon as I realized I had a fuel pump failure, I knew the airplane was grounded, unairworthy, unable to fly. There was NO WAY I was going to make any flight and I am fully prepared to bring my mechanic to me.....for those who think I would have made such a flight, thanks for your gentle "corrections" and concerns. I appreciate that there are people willing to say what needs to be said, irregardless of hurt feelings....this forum is great for gathering information and opinions. Maybe, a lower time pilot reading these posts would have considered a flight in similar circumstances and is now all the wiser. If so, it is worth putting this out there!!

You got them to say "Mooney" Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

So the weather has been really bad this week so no flying. Figured it would be a good time to turn my lawn tractor into a tug and built a tow bar. Then I wake up to snow this morning.... what the heck, hope everyone at Sun and Fun know just how good they have it:) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

To avoid hijacking a thread: In the Avionics forum, someone posted "... and save my money for speed brakes" My thoughts My 231 has speed brakes, and I like them. For an emergency descent, they would be wonderful. When ATC gives you a late descent clearance, they are pretty nice. When I got my plane they were an almost "must have" spec. However, after 17 years of ownership, I have to question whether I would pay for buying and installing them. Perhaps if I had already installed everything I wanted, and had money left over. But there are a lot of things that are higher on my need list. What is the collective opinion of the group.

FPM is a descent rate. That's quite a bit different than a crossing restriction.

On the end that goes into the landing gear is threaded and I have a cap that screws on to it securing it to the plane. And there is a pin on the tractor end to secure the tow bar to the tractor. It's just hard to see in the pictures. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

will this due .......

Looks like the G2 is 10% off. http://www.insightavionics.com/specials.htm

From my experience last year, this is very true and I cannot emphasize it enough. Be ready to pull the trigger and really narrow down what you're looking for because paralysis by analysis is a very real disease.... The good ones go fast. I've gone through this process twice now and the first time was kinda painful because I was spit balling what I wanted since I didn't really know. Here's what I learned and added to the second buy. - Make a list of must have's for the plane (range, useful load, avionics, engine times, etc) - Make a second list of nice to have items (specific A/P's, type GPS, paint colors, etc) - Have finances in order ahead of time (cash is king or finance if necessary) - Once you start the process, make sure you know who you want to do the pre-buy/annual and where you want it done at The more stuff you have in order before hand will make it easier and also show the seller you are serious and not wasting their time. I feel your pain on looking everyday, but it has to be done if you're serious about buying. I found 7 different aircraft that met all of my criteria over a 4 months period only to find that each of them were already in pre-buy when I called (5 V35's and 2 C210's). The one I ended up buying was listed on controller.com for 2 days before I saw it and called the seller for more information and then give him a verbal commitment to buy pending the annual. I remember that Saturday in August perfectly because I was in California with my wife for her masters swim meet and surfing Controller on my iPhone. Showed her the pictures between her events and went from there. After I closed the deal, the seller told me there were three other guys that called behind me in case I pulled out and the funny part is that the #2 in line actually offered $10K more than the asking price to make me "go away" so he could buy it....lol. Seller was a stand up guy and I had my new bird. If you see airplanes languishing on those sites for a long time, there's generally two reasons. 1. it's overpriced and the seller is hoping to catch that one special buyer and/or 2. there's something wrong that everyone keeps finding and the seller won't fix. Priced right, aircraft will move quickly, even if it has some minor issues. My M20E spent 2 weeks on Controller and here on Mooneyspace (and other forums) before I sold it. Just some random thoughts for you. Cheers, Brian

Exactly the kind of OCD I use...and love. :-)

I flew with him in her once when he was bringing her back from annual.

I was looking for a B (I have flown in my friend's and liked it), C, D (converted), E, F (if I happened to find just the right one. The extra leg room would have been nice but not super high on the list. With just my wife and one kid left at home I figured if I needed to I could put people in the back seat on those few occasions. Having a broad spectrum to look at left me with lots of options. I ended up with a converted D and I have been really happy with it.

There is one based out of KCRG in Jacksonville FL. He is a P-8 driver in the Navy but don't think he is in Mooneyspace Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

On occasion, I've found ATC treats me like I've got a turbine and gives me ridiculous descent requests (usually crossing restrictions) which would be doable in a turbine but not in a piston. So at times, the speed brakes can help meet ATC needs, other times "unable."

When flying like an engineer by the numbers... not needed. When flying like a human being... a comfort to have. The older I get, the more human I am. They would be difficult to buy based on their cost benefit ratio. Much easier to appreciate when they came with the plane. If you need a reason to add them... Long Bodies are not approved(?) for full flap / Cross controlled activities near the ground. The brakes can be used as a substitute. (Depends on your finance administrator) To witness their awesome power use them during a practice E-descent. Gear down, brakes out, accelerate to Vle... (use proper technique of course) it won't take very long to get to the ground... Best regards, -a-

These pictures here are great. The original A model evokes everything classic about Mooney lines and curves, and the individual specimens look well cared for. Congratulations to you all! mike20papa, I trained at KCLL and have a number of Coulter field landings in my logbook too. All from "back in the day" when I was a student at A&M. Love the paint and aluminum combo on your airplane. Wave at all the Aggies for me next time you're airborne.

I question the spar... seems like you would want to measure the depth of the grinding. Not different than gsrpilot's corrosion. If the last reseal is in the log books, you would be doing the community a favor by involving the governing bodies.

At least you've got plenty of company. Lot's of people don't or can't understand science and how the scientific process works.

I owned a 64E from 1989 to 2012, and my current 65C since 2012. With about 2200 hours in the E & C my experience is that the C's performance is not that different from the E. Carb heat is not that big a deal in the C, and I personally prefer the simplicity of a carb over fuel injection. I would shop for both models, and pick one based on condition, equipment and price.

Today I flew from NW Washington to Santa Maria, CA for the MAPA PPP that starts Friday AM. I left a day early to beat a cold front that I suspected would include icing that would scutttle the flight on Thursday. Ceiling was 800. I was IMC for 1.5 hours. Then below an under cast for another couple of hours. Sunny & 73 at KSMX when I arrived. Stopped for fuel ai KWLW in Northern California. Had lunch at Nancy's Airport Cafe & filled up with $4.08 avgas. 35 knot headwinds on that 1st 4.4 hour leg but mostly smooth & no ice.

This is exactly what has been thoroughly debunked as incorrect by the actual research at APS. Idling your turbo for 5 minutes after exiting the runway is actually worse for your turbo than just shutting it down immediately. It's not insurance, it's ignorance of the facts. Of course, it's your airplane, and you do what you like. But it is factually incorrect.

My smile is always bigger than my wife's when we fly... But that's okay, if she loved it as much as I do she might try to kick me out of the left seat!

move out west and I'll go halvzies

So many people are giving away twins. I've heard anecdotes on how certain folks buy them, pull the motors, and gut the avionics and make a nice little profit. No way I would want to double the burden on my checking account. Never. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just look at short field performance and emergency off field performance. That's all it took for me to write off velocities. If you do nothing but fly into long runways and you are absolutely sure the motor will never quit, go for the Velocity.

Turbulence perception varies with speed and weight. The heavier the plane the less you will fill the jolts. In heavy turbulence I slow down to about 100kts to minimize the jolts. Speed makes a significant effect specially when the airspeed indicator looks like wiper blades. You can reduce the feeling of it by tightening the shoulder belt. At low speed the jolts change to 0gs momentary events. It is important that you be IFR proficient under partial panel. Even though the wings can withstand over 3gs such is not the case for other components in the plane that can become loose or inoperative. José

Not sure where others are coming from but it is often remarked that Mooneys are very stable actually, which makes for a good IFR platform compared to say a Bonanza... Turbulence is def handled better in a Mooney than lighter airplanes. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk