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One of the most important things I have learned when buying an airplane is inspecting the owner/seller.

Pp thoughts only, not an ancient Chinese accountant or mathematician

I've had my first customers airplane now for a couple weeks for the cowling modification. I'm waiting on FAA field approval before I physically start the mod on the aircraft. I have all the parts in house and just have a little more to finish on the baffling then I'm ready to go. My backup plan is using DER's if for some reason the FAA turns down the field approval. Once I get started, I'll post the before, in progress and finished photos in this thread. Thanks, David

Back to the issue at hand. My thoughts are as follows: 1) This aircraft likely isn't going to sell as is for $14.5K. 2) $10,000 to make the fuel tanks airworthy seems excessive. 3) Aircraft ownership is going to cost you one way or the other...in the wallet or in the form of sweat equity. Sorry for the "tough love", but if your dream is to own and operate this Mooney, then you need to stop with the sob story and get to work. You have stated that you can't afford to just pay to have it fixed, so that leaves only one other option...sweat equity. Talk to your mechanic, if he won't work with you find one that will. The are several airports within 25 miles of you, which means there are several IAs. No offense intended, but anyone maintaining a certified aircraft needs to be prepared to write a $10,000 (or more) check at anytime or be capable with tools and have a predefined relationship with an IA (having both options is best). If you have neither, you need to find a creative way to make up for it. A sob story isn't going to get you anywhere. There are many folks who've conquered worse. You need some inspiration; you should watch the movie "The Edge" There's a lot I like about the film. In particular there are two quotes from the movie that are applicable here. "Never feel sorry for a man who owns a plane" "What one man can do, another can do" There is a way out of this FlyHigh603, but your current mindset is way too negative. You're currently heavy on devastation and light on gumption; you need the inverse to make this work.

Here's a visitor that showed up in transient parking this morning. I love this place! Tom

I don't think anyone doesn't want another aviation enthusiast to join in the hobby of flying. The problem comes with the reliability required for it to be strictly for business and whether or not it genuinely pays off when it comes to dollars and sense. I try to make use of my plane for business at every opportunity. It is fun and often useful. However, as a hobby pilot, I am perfectly aware of the limitations and set backs. I fly for business because I enjoy it, not because I am under the delusion that it the most economic way of getting around. It takes a lot of flying and effort to keep the plane and pilot sound and proficient. When you factor in how much training, for how long, and for how much is required not onto to be rated but also to stay proficient in airplane, makes it not so viable a business proposition if the personal enjoyment factor isn't primary. Looking at this kind of airplane strictly from the purpose of business will probably be disappointing, over priced, not sufficiently reliable, too time consuming, and potentially dangerous.

That's called an Avidyne 440

I hear this all the time and disagree with it fairly strongly. A pre-purchase inspection is very different from an annual inspection. Each has a specific goal and each accomplishes a specific thing. In a pre-purchase inspection you define what you want evaluated. It should include flying the airplane to see if it makes book numbers, flies straight and level hands-off, verification that all installed equipment works, an evaluation of the paint, interior and glass, a look to the future on what items are not currently airworthiness items but may be due in the coming 2-5 years as well as any items that have been in service and should be replaced or overhauled. Does the autopilot work properly, do all the radios and Nav devices work as they should, is the AI slow to spin up, does the DG precess unacceptably, what software versions do the installed GPS and other devices have, will the battery need to be replaced soon, will the vacuum pump need to be replaced soon, will the landing gear discs need to be replaced soon, will the fuel tanks need to be sealed soon, will the magnetos need to be overhauled soon, how old are the spark plugs and ignition harness, what shape are the baffles in ? NONE of that is required to be done in an annual inspection.

Champion has their reason. Tempest has one too... If you need a plug for a desk decoration. Champion is your go to source. If you need a spark plug for an aircraft engine, go Tempest. There are two products that get mentioned around here all the time. Champion spark plugs and Gill batteries... The data is irrefutable(?) (big word of the day) Best regards, -a-

To do anything useful in the form of troubleshooting I suggest pulling out the BK KFC150 AFMS which should be in your POH or at least on board or you aren't legal. If the AFMS their is a preflight test procedure. You can't run this test unless the engine is running unless you have electric standby vacuum; if so turn that one and let the AI stabilize and then begin the pre-flight test. That should help highlight the issue(s). It really does look like the AI is Tango Uniform but without doing the basic pre-flight test who knows what's really going on. Also keep in mind even if it is working correctly you need to use the CWS button the yoke to use the altitude functions properly. That goes for maintaining pitch with the Altitude button off and for maintaining altitude with the Altitude button light on. Its not enough to just push Trim down and trim up since you may not be holding it down long enough if it was really far off. However, I don't think that's your problem but the CWS butto is the proper way to test this in flight. Trim up and down buttons on the AP computer should only be used for small corrections; not a 10 degree correction. As for whether glass would solve the problem that would of course depend on whether the issue is limited to the KI-256 and if you also purchased the additional autopilot interface for the glass AI, such as the EA-100 for the Aspen or GAD-43 for the Garmin. i.e. more cost than just the glass AI. But you know once you start down that path you can't stop and you'll still need a backup AI for what ever glass option you pick. The truth is all of us glass converts just use the failing AI or HSI as an excuse to do what we've been wanting to do for a while. Seems like your new 231 came with a lot of issues? Insufficient pre-buy or maybe they were known?

More than a moment. I was watching for the aileron full deflection in the initial part of the rollout, and there it was! Still all business at that point.

Also for international for us NA guys.

Moody Aero Graphics makes placard kits which have a clear transfer film, it only leaves the individual letters behind. Ive seen the screaming eagle aero graphics kits, they are cheap and have clear decal thats part of it. get the individual letter kind.

Following Tempest's recommendation, I rotate the plugs at each annual to balance out the anode/cathode wear effect. E.g. #1 top goes to #4 bottom and vice versa. Having 2 different type plugs might make this practice "interesting". See page 4-11 of this link: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pdf/tempestplugmaint.pdf

I have no trouble getting the frame of my 61 cm Roubaix through the door of my M20J. I usually remove the wheels and seat although the seat can stay on if I'm not also loading my wife's bike. The lightweight carbon frames make the loading process easier. For the chains I use these: https://www.walmart.com/ip/White-Lightning-Chain-Johnny/32312386?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=1063&adid=22222222228021149170&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=m&wl3=51785688191&wl4=pla-52083384264&wl5=9014979&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=112549983&wl11=online&wl12=32312386&wl13=&veh=sem

I wonder if Garmin's product announcement late this week will be an "Aspen-like" product?

No water no rust...The only engine dehydrator I know that can go for a long period of time without reactivating the beads is the blackmax dehydrator. It's all electronic and is open loop, it feeds dry air to the engine. If you use that thing plus the dessicant plugs for the spark plugs and tape off the exhaust, the air filter, and the breather and the sniffle valve. it can go a long while sitting, while staying dry inside. Regarding the 2F oil, I asked Ed Kollin, the cam guard inventor, and I forgot why, but he said it it wasn't so great. Use engine oil and overdose it with camguard for storage.

I inherited Champion plugs when I bought this plane. They performed and tested terribly and I switched to Tempest fine wires asap. I had to buy a Gill battery in an emergency. Performance was marginal and I got rid of it 7 months later in favor of a Concorde RG 35 AXC.

Ahem, or a M20R with FIKI. You'll get there sooner... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A previous 182 of mine would run 70º LOP. Most carbs will run LOP to some degree but there is a technique to it as Paul says. Back off the throttle until the MP needle moves just a little bit. Some also require just a touch of carb heat.

I'm retired AF/ANG. Now in the airlines. Son in the Army Guard flying Blackhawks, and he needed fixed wing time. So we started looking for something, but didn't know what. After a LOT of discussion, I decided I wanted something fast enough to really go somewhere and Mooneys kept popping to the top. I eventually called Jimmy Garrison at All American, and he spent an hour on the phone with me going over different models and capabilities. We ended up finding a nice, low-time 231 that we bought through All American. I took the insurance company's advice and got about 10 hours of dual which was WELL worth it. I now wander all over the country in it and love it. Pictures are worth a thousand words. In the first photo, that's my son flying with his instructor, and me in the back...

After a week of work on our new Florida home, all three of our kids arrived in the last day for a week of family time. The oldest with her husband and our only two grand kids. All but one son ( flew into Sanford this afternoon) drove down in one van nonstop from Green Bay, WI.......argh. Anyway, met another Mooney Spacer (Steve) from Canada and saw this really beautiful airplane on the ramp last night. When we went out for the "Friday Night Air Show" there was a young couple getting their picture taken professionally with the plane as the background. They OBVIOUSLY have taste!!! Tom

So here's a guy with moneys to spend, he wants to spend it on aviation, he wants to ultimately own his own airplane... And here is a bunch of airplane owners trying to talk him out of it. No wonder GA is in trouble. Are you all the same bunch trying to shut down the airport in Santa Monica? Geeees..... All I'll say is that flying is the best thing I've spent money on in many years... and I spend a fair amount of it.

Are you talking about the massives or the fine wires? I have heard nothing but good things about the Tempest Fine Wires and have switched over to them myself.

If uber is in the towns you are visiting then that greatly simplifies things. I have been tipping my toe in the water with uber and it is working out pretty well.

You'll have to cut him some slack. He flies a CESSNA for gods sake.

Hi, I'm new here and this is my first post. I just recently purchased 1964 Mooney M20E. I absolutely love the plane. However, it is time to replace the shock discs on the nose wheel and mains. During the pre-buy inspection, the mechanic did mention that the shock discs can use replacement. When I inquired about the price, he mentioned about $100-$125 per shock disc. I didn't know that there is 3 shock discs for the nose wheel and 4 for the main. My model currently has 4 shock discs on the nose wheel and 5 on the each main. I was wondering if somebody know an alternative besides buying $2000 M20-139-003 and M20-139-004 kits. Lasar had an option that also runs around $1,800 for the nose wheel. Is there another "airworthy" option to retrofit to Lord shock discs without spending too much money? ------------------------------------ I know that there were some replies below on this topic, however, I want to share what I ended up doing to save a lot of money on shock disks. For the nose gear shock discs, I purchased a kit from LASAR that ended up costing about $1,000 plus installation. For the mains, I went to Faeth Aircraft (Aircraft salvage yard) and bought shock discs at $200/per side. This included the top plate, shock link, bolt, collar, etc. It was 10 times cheaper than purchasing Mooney retrofit kits. The shock discs were almost brand new and I had to use special tool to compress those discs in order to install. Since the shock discs came from two different landing gears, I mixed matched those shock discs to have equal wear on both sides. I hope this helps to save lots of money. Have fun flying!

At the united club lounge in Boston today, waiting for a flight to Cleveland. Then a drive to Erie. 8PJ is in for annual and ADS-B upgrade. Could have been home by now...

The issues mentioned regarding Navworx and the 978 mhz versus 1090es mhz are very real and serious considerations. I hadn't thought about future resale value since I don't plan to ever sell but my estate undoubtably will! I don't have to have a second Aspen (though I would very much like one) and IF I can swing it, the Lynx set up would be my preferred solution. IF I can't....then I have to consider the navworx or something else.....great discussion and thoughts from all! Thanks

I infer from the OP's name and a lookup in the FAA registry that this is a K model. Have to strongly concur with kortopates that it would be a mistake to go with a UAT solution. This would harm your resale value well out of proportion to the cost difference. Most buyers would look at the UAT solution as a headache to rip out, not as a plus... people don't buy a K to stay under 18k all the time. I went 1090ES just to preserve my R's 20k service ceiling - and I've never been up there... I don't see why you'd have to add another Aspen box to make the Lynx worthwhile, you already have an Aspen PFD, yes? Just my .02 having recently gone through this. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Regardless whether or not you intend to fly in Class A, your aircraft service ceiling allows it now and thus putting in a UAT device lowers the legal ceiling come 2020. Potential buyers will look at that as a downgrade and thus you'll pay again in resale value when you sell. We've seen some avionics shops frown on doing that, out of fear of it coming back to haunt them when the pilot ignores the limitation. I personally wouldn't dream of doing that because I value the planes class A capability. Navworx is not going to win against the FAA. They entirely violated the TSO requirements by impersonating a level they are not.

True but it's a timeless subject

Here's the before picture.

I clipped mine to the passenger side leather handle on the forward frame. It's high (roughly head level), and is somewhat in the line of sight(I can read it when I'm looking right). one thing I've noticed is that if the cabin vents are all closed during start / takeoff, I get 10-12 during climb and 1-4ppm reading in cruise, but if you open some eyeball vents that drops off to 0 pretty quickly (even in the climb). It seems like the eyeball vents are pretty effective at venting the cabin.

Flying Easy! Landing hard . . .

Looks like fun!

A dinner flight to Lake Jackson airport. Yum Yum Runway cafe has some good eats.

I'm so glad your friends were not hurt or worse. What a horrible situation to come home to.

Go right ahead and get your bikes in your Mooney! Of course wheels off, but its perfectly doable even without removing back seat (just fold it). I go mountain biking with wife at least twice a year and we have process greased. Good luck! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

House trailer. just kidding. It's a 69 C it's not even car money. I know that I should spend as much as I can upfront and let someone else pay for the expensive avionics that I can then pay 1/3 of. But this is a plane I can pay cash for, I can afford a good deal of unexpected maintenance or some nice starter avionics upgrades. I can spend a few years doing a different upgrade each year or so and fly it in the meantime. That being said corrosion and engine are my biggest concern. If something else is as critical as those, I'm all ears and want to learn. I'm very excited to possibly join the CB club.

The hard part to understand until you try it is the angle problem as the big bike frame enters the front door and makes that corner... dimensions don't tell the story... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

From POH:

Just remember the old adage; "If it flies, floats, or f**ks, LEASE IT!

Took my first flight lesson on September 17, 1967. Soloed October 31, 1967. Private on March 13, 1968. I'm on my 10th logbook now and going on 50 years of flying. It's hard to even write that number. I was the youngest in my section at work at that time. Time goes by faster than you think.

That would be dangerously hot for oil T (approx 250-300F).

Today is a "Weird" Mooneyspace day. What are you talking about regarding an E Model being "unpleasantly difficult to load within the envelope"? I am not buying that at ALL. Who would buy a Mooney and then not fly fast across country? I don't understand the 9GPH settings? Why not fly 5LOP, about 9.5-10GPH depending on altitude and GET THERE ALREADY? Who would think of decending with the gear down in a Mooney? Funny and weird. Keep power in and pitch for 500. Lessen pitch if getting up to 180 indicated. Get back what you lost in climb....Go fast. That is why you buy a Mooney...Speed and efficiency to get speed. You putt putters make me laugh. Go farther faster...or Putt Putt. I would DEFINITELY take Johnson Bar in a J if it was possible to have it. If you are to weak to properly work a J-Bar you should not be flying. If adjusted properly and done properly raising gear is a non-event. It does require not putting $%^& under it and looking for $%^&. Not to difficult.

Dogs are wonderful companions. In addition to Mutt Muffs be sure to protect them from cosmic rays. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Manual gear IS BETTER because it is simple. Not failsafe, but simple.

I just talked to David, and while has has a new stub spar, he is unable to find an A&P willing to go to his home field (It's a small strip) to work on it. He can't really take it anywhere because it's completely unairworthy. It's in a hangar so not really degrading very much and he has hopes of getting some work done on it over the next year or two. In the meantime he bought a Stinson and has been flying that (got his tailwheel endorsement to fly it).

Rik, I've posted this before. I've found owning a Mooney costs about $10k per year on average. That's $3,000/yr hangar, $2500/yr insurance (2 IFR-rated pilots), $2500/yr annual ($1500 base cost, plus whatever they always seem to find), and $2,000/yr random maintenance. When I say random maintenance, I mean you might have $15k one year, and $500 the next. So it's really an average. That's all before you turn the key for your first flight of the year. Gas is not included. Oil changes are not included. Engine reserves not included. Many find ways to decrease this cost. Owner-assist annuals are popular, as are used parts and owner-manufactured parts. I don't do any of that. I wish I had more time to do it. Bad years, such as the year we had to replace a corroded spar cap in the wing, require spending more on the plane than is probably financially logical. But then again, none of this makes financial sense. In some places, hangar rates are much higher than my $250/month. So check your local airport to adjust that number. This is just to give you an idea of one person's experience. You can maybe do it cheaper. It might cost you more. Upgrades are extra. Just one person's experience for you. And I don't track it all that close. I'm happier when I don't.