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Flew it home this morning from calgary. A few minor issues to resolve, right wing feels really heavy during level flight, not sure if the JPI is working properly and the Attitude indicator isn't working properly so we could not use altitude hold of really even the auto pilot as it always wanted the nose night. I'll get some separate posts on the later, but I am just pumped to have my plane home!

Gee, I guess all the really old guys aren't willing to fess up openly. At 78, I appear to be the second oldest one to admit it.

Body is 74 'til April. Mentally, probably about to graduate from high school. Soloed in 1957, ticket in '60.

I've had my first customers airplane now for a couple weeks for the cowling modification. I'm waiting on FAA field approval before I physically start the mod on the aircraft. I have all the parts in house and just have a little more to finish on the baffling then I'm ready to go. My backup plan is using DER's if for some reason the FAA turns down the field approval. Once I get started, I'll post the before, in progress and finished photos in this thread. Thanks, David

I was told the same thing... But I wouldn't trade my 252 for anything but a 252 Encore. Going high and fast is addictive. It might have something to do with the lack of O2, but I'm not sure.

We live in Austin and regularly go to Dallas to see family and friends, and for business. It's a 3 hour drive. Since getting the Mooney, my wife won't drive to Dallas period. 3 hours in a car in I35 traffic. Or 1 hour in the plane with the autopilot doing all the work?

I also live in SoCal, I just went through this process last year of trying to figure out if flying would work for my business. 6 months into ownership of a 1967 M20F I don't know how to live without it. It makes things too damn convenient. The way I looked at it was that I can get more money, but I can't get more time. I took this week off of work to do the annual with my mechanic and dreading next week when I need to be in Santa Barbara, Vegas, and San Antonio all in the same week without my plane. To answer your questions: 1. Will I actually save time? I found there's a sweet spot that is about 200-600 miles where flying myself makes sense vs driving or a commercial flight. If I can drive there myself in less than two hours then flying will actually take me more time to preflight the plane, fly there, deal with ground transportation, etc. If it's more than 5 hours to fly myself there, then I will go commercial. Example being my San Antonio trip this week I will take a commercial plane. 2. Cost per hour? I've only owned for 6 months but so far I've spent $15k in fuel, maintenance, loan payment, hangar, accessories, etc I've flown the plane about 100 hrs. So $160/hr sounds about right to me. 3. Training in a Mooney. I would never want to do to my Mooney what I did to the poor Cherokee 140, Cessna 150, 172, and 175B that I trained in. Also I would recommend training in just one plane if you can. While you can get insurance to fly a Mooney as a student, it's going to be expensive and you'll need to find a CFI that is willing to give you the high performance and complex endorsements. I have 100 hrs in my M20F now and I think I'm starting to get OK at landings. Don't worry about spending too much time on training. Due to weather and other things it took me 90 hours before I passed my checkride. Keep training until you are comfortable. Once you get your PPL then it's time to start looking at planes. 4. Other things for n00bs. You should look at flying yourself as an option. If all the conditions are right, then YAY! you can fly yourself, but there are things like weather, maintenance, etc that will prevent you from flying. Never put yourself in a situation where you have to use the plane in bad conditions and give into get-there-itis. You always need a Plan B that you have no hesitation in executing. If the trip is within 4 hrs then my Plan B is driving, otherwise it's Southwest. Southwest is a great option for me because I can book the flight and cancel it at the last minute and not incur any cost other than that they have my money tied up as a credit for the next trip. Flying into a city with uber makes it so much easier. Renting a car is something I try to avoid at all costs as it just adds time. When you get your PPL then you think people are going to want to fly with you all the time, but the reality is that most of the time you're flying alone 90% of the time. My wife and kids have gone with me exactly 1 time so far and they hated being cramped in the little plane. I never really got used to turbulence, but what I do now is kind of ignore it. I listen to podcasts while I fly (I mean while Mr. Autopilot flies) and kind of tune out the bumpiness. Turbulence is one of those things that kind of makes or breaks flying. For some reason if someone else is flying I don't care at all about it, but when I'm the one with the controls it kind of freaks me out. I had a really bad experience early in my training that made me almost quit, but I learned that judicious use of whiskey can help you overcome those traumatic experiences. Go finish your flight training before you commit to using a plane for your business. Make sure that your flight instructor takes you on windy days where you're going to experience bumpiness. As others have said, my customers think it's awesome when I fly in and always ask me questions about flying. I had a customer call me once for help on a Saturday. What would have had to wait until Monday and then been a 4 hr drive was a 1hr flight, fixed his problem in 10 minutes, and flew home. That story spread like wildfire throughout that account. I love my Mooney but if money were no object I'd buy a TBM 930 in a heartbeat.

I retired 15 years ago but I used to work. I owned a manufacturing company and did a lot of selling, much of that with independent multi-line reps from New England to Florida - about 1/2 the country. I averaged 250 hours per year in a M20E for 11 years. I could be in West Palm, Boston, or Meigs in 4 hours or less - on MY schedule. Including the time to get to the commercial airports, I could beat airline travel time and if I were going to an out of the way place, the beat was huge, probably saving an overnight stay. I seldom, almost never, was unable to meet a schedule. I think you'll find that the flexibility will increase your business opportunities. It is really helpful to tell a customer that I can be there later today. Of course you won't start out with the experience to make every trip in your Mooney by yourself. You'll opt to drive, which is what you're doing now, you might opt to take an instructor to build some weather time, particularly while you're working on your IR.

That's called an Avidyne 440

Call Jimmy or Dave at All American Aircraft. Tell them what you want and what you want to pay and they will find it. Annual pre-buy with Maxwell.

I'm late to the party, but welcome to MS and thanks for your service! $150k will buy you a lot of mooney. With that budget and your location, I would be looking at the J line. Sounds like you are already doing that. Ill echo carusoam above and highly suggest you add a WAAS gps to your requirements list. I told myself I didn't need one while shopping, then a year into ownership I changed my mind. That was an expensive and avoidable mistake.

It's not just the enrichment circuit, it also involves the butterfly valve in the throat of the carburetor. With the throttle retarded a little, almost to the point of seeing a decrease in manifold pressure (but not quite), the butterfly valve is cocked over and swirls the air as it enters the carburetor. This allows for a more uniform dispersal of fuel and better distribution to each of the cylinders. If you throw in a little carburetor heat (very little) the fuel will atomize better and distribution will be even more uniform. Both of these things will allow a leaner mixture while still running smoothly.

Reminds me of this video: (1:07) For those suggesting contact cleaner, do you mean simply removing the 430w and spraying the back of it as well as the tray? Any contact cleaner will work? I can just get something at Wal-Mart?

Since the airplane is new to you, when was the fuel injection system last adjusted? TCM has a specific procedure for this (SB97-3) and it should be noted in the log book. Your stated stated full rich fuel burn (13-14 gph) seems low so I suspect your full power fuel flow is low too. Making sure your fuel injection is set up properly is good starting point on a TSIO 360 before attempting to trouble shoot other issues. Bill

In addition to the great advice provided above, I will add my personal experience when I was asking the same question-to myself as there was no internet at the time. I purchased an M20E before I took my first plane ride. I took an instructor to help fly the plane home. I lived in Minot, ND and planned to travel around the midwest and west coast. I could not obtain insurance on the plane to fly alone (unlicensed). Coverage was predicated on an instructor flying with me. So all my duel instruction was spent in the Mooney and all solo time/x-country and FAA check ride completed in a Cessna 150. My instructor had extensive Mooney experience. I liked the idea of learning to fly in a complex/retractable gear plane. Managing the prop and gear is all I know! Even when in the 150, I would "pretend" to put the gear up/down on every flight by moving a make-believe knob. I had no issues landing or being overwhelmed with some additional controls in the Mooney. I completed my PPL in less than 1 month. Yes, I would fly every evening after work and the entire weekend-I could not get enough. The M20E was a nice plane, but after becoming more familiar with flying , I wanted more out of my plane. I sold the M20E after only 4 months from the purchase date and bought a M20K (231) which was turbocharged. I wanted to travel higher/faster/further. I also found that I didn't want to just limit my travel to business. So, I started taking the family places. We loved the freedom. We could go places for a fraction of the cost of 4/5 (a small 3 child in the back seat) commercial tickets. It turned out to be a wonderful blessing that reached far beyond "just business". I did complete my IR immediately after my PPL. I did this training through a different instructor (Professional Instrument Courses-Iflyifr.com) in efforts to not perpetuate any bad habits. I completed the IR in 1 solid week of flying. Then it was practice, practice and practice. As my skill set grew so did the utility of my plane. Just because I had a PPL/IR with some experience did not make me a safe all weather pilot. Competency came with lots of study and practice. Know your personal/plane limits. With >4000 hrs and additional ratings I am still learning-and love it. I don't believe viewing a personal aircraft, you fly, as nothing more than a means of transportation (like a car) is healthy. You need to have a passion for flying! Passion will drive you to remain current/competent. If you don't have the passion, let someone else fly for you. Just my opinion. I present my story to demonstrate the evolution of desire if you really enjoy flying. In retrospect, I would have started my flight training in a rental (pretending it had retractable gear) then purchased a Mooney that better fit my needs. Trust me...as you learn, the aviation world will open doors that are currently closed. You are asking the proper questions, but some things you will need to learn on your own...flying a plane! Buy your second plane first! It may cost a little more now, but you will save $$ in the end. As far as choosing a Mooney....Well, is there really any other choice when one considers total ownership cost, speed, safety and convenience?

Let me say welcome and thank you for your service.

used COGO and punch tapes first year at Purdue in one of my Civil Eng. courses. That was 1969, so much much younger than you, you old fart.

I love that picture!

Yes I will have the funds for an overhaul if needed. It would hurt, but I could manage it.

I've taken engines apart and the first sign of this is pitting on the lifter faces. Then it progresses to outright spalling. But you can often see several stages of this progression in one engine. We just pulled the lifters out of one cylinder on a 2002 ovation with 1400 hours. Both were starting to pit. I would have inspected all the The lifters and replaced the pitted ones and saved the cam but the owner cheaper out. And that's a Continental engine with a better failure rate than the lycomings. It's so bad no way that most beechtalk guys have taken to pulling every lifter out on the prebuy and half of engines have bad lifters. I think the crappy metallurgy is in the lifters.

and you are a Yetti and need to get to long beach at 5 pm then it will cost you $75.00.... and never never use Pool.

Do you have flexibility in your travel/meeting schedule? Having a rigid schedule with no alternative travel method is not compatible with general aviation. Many pilots have lost their lives because they were in a hurry to get somewhere and launched into poor conditions. An instrument rating will help a lot but there are still times when the right decision is not to go.

It's pretty rare that flying small planes makes financial sense... but it can certainly improve the quality of life. I'd recommend that you start taking lessons. Get your medical first and then get going on lessons. Get through your first solo and then reevaluate at that time. Do you actually like flying? Then get through your solo cross country flights, and reevaluate again. Do you mind spending an hour or two in the small cockpit wearing a headset, out of range of your cell phone? For most of us on this forum, the answers are YES, YES, and I can't get enough of it! But we're probably in the minority. If you love it, then check back in and we'll help you find the M20C you're looking for. And the M20C is probably the most cost effective way to get from A to B in a private airplane.

Hi James, Unfortunately the "popping" noise coming from the NGT-9000 is a fairly common problem, and there are a few different things that need to be checked with the installation. The most likely culprit of the noise has to do with how well the transponder coax RF connector at the back of the NGT-9000 rack are grounded. Poor grounding, or bonding, of the connector will cause the noise to be more prevalent. I would suggest that the installer starts with inspecting the coax connections behind the rack, and I'm guessing they will find that the RF connectors are not making good contact with the RF grounding spring-clip piece. The other issue could be poor bonding of the transponder antenna to the fuselage and/or an insufficient antenna ground plane. Lastly, relocating the transponder antenna further aft may be required to completely get rid of the noise. Please have your installer call me at (616)285-4436 and I can help them resolve the issue, if they haven't already called and talked to myself or one of my coworkers. Hope this helps! Jim Keeth L-3 Aviation Products jim.keeth@l3t.com

Some of the panels I've done (That is not silk screening, those labels are cut into the metal : Your local avionics shop does all install, all I do is cut bare panels, or cut, label and prep (requires approval for fitment prior). I need the .DWG file from your avionics shop or 3rd party and that's it.

I'm going to claim the title of being the "youngest when I joined MS" as I was 23 when I bot my Mooney and 20 when I bot my 172 prior to that.

Okay, let me do my best Carusoam impersonation here... What I've learned from this thread is: 1. Some planes don't get flown often enough. 2. Some pilots don't have access to planes often enough. 3. These issues may provide some mutual benefit. 4. The FAA isn't overly concerned about private plane rentals. 5. Your insurer or finance company may not be too happy about it though. 6. Check on renters insurance for such situations. 7. Look around and you might find some sweet deals on plane access. 8. Arrows are decent airplanes but they're still not Mooneys. Not a CFI, A&P, AI, CPA, CFP, FBI, CIA, NSA, PhD, nor an insurance agent, but I DID stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Nice plane. But, without the technical description of what is in the panel and who did the engine OH the price doesn't mean very much. If it is close, go see it. It probably has an Rnav... KNS80, looks like an early BK GPS, but operates via VOR. The world has happily gone GPS based nav. You may want to include that in your budget... Enjoy the hunt! Best regards, -a-

I wouldn't say distracting. It works, and also hampers outside horizon vision, but I was flying on a pitch black night, so I was practically IFR. I had to tug on the bulb once to break the connection to make out the airport, once I saw it, I put it back in. I really need to find the values to get the dimmer working as normal.

Probably the only Mooney I might trade my Ovation for would be a 252 Encore... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So I think it shakes down to keeping the engine cool. If the baffles aren't perfect any type of operation is shortening engine life. Some say running it easier prolongs life. I believe you can run it right at 2700rpm, full throttle leaned to peak egt at 4000ft and after 1000 hours of that type of operation your cylinder will still meet new tolerances. In my opinion what hurts engines is heat, not pressure and sitting with acidic oil. The sitting part creates surface rust which now means your nice machines surface don't slide on a thin boundary layer of oil but in rough surfaces that at any power setting grind against each other = ever heard of a engine making metal?? The best advice I can give is get a engine monitor and if chts can't be kept in a reasonable temp less than 380 then modify replace or do whatever is necessary until the temps are inline. 2nd fly the plane at least once every 2 weeks, preferably once a week and change oil and Filter at 25 hours if it sits longer than a week without flying. Keep acid levels in the crank case low. Pretty hard to hurt a engine by running it hard but it can be cooked and rusted TO DEATH! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Per Mooney the 100hr and Annual are the same document. There are sections of the document that would relate to the Engine and other things under the cowl. So just saying how often do you do a 100hr is a bit broad. We did all the hoses with teflon when the plane was bought. The ones under the dash were already teflon. Got the last flexible brake line during the last annual. When my cowl comes off for an oil change/spark plug cleaning I inspect everything under there. Are things tight are things rubbing, do all lines go from here to there? When I got the plane I redid all the hoses under there with teflon. The last annual the professional mechanic asked for one more support on the MP line so I added another adel clamp. Would I catch a small aluminum MP line with a crack.... probably not. Maybe when I moved things around. There were a fair amount of adel clamps that were missing when I got the plane, I have tried to add those back After inspecting I spend some quality time with a flashlight looking around for things that don't connect and then recowl.

You might also consider upgrading your rubber hoses for teflon hoses. The teflon hoses are more durable and are considered to be lifetime hoses. Not sure I would keep them that long but, when you consider that a fuel or oil hose failure can ruin your whole day, why not buy the better, more reliable hose? The extra cost is not that significant. I have them on my airplane. My IA related a story to me about the first Annual he did on a Comanche. The guys hoses were so old that they literally crumbled in his hands! Hoses are cheap when you consider the total cost involved with having an airplane.

I kind of think cam failure in the Lycoming is: 1. Cams made between 1990 and early 2000s are a different metallurgy .2. Poor lubrication design on the valves causing the valves to coke up and get tight. Which causes spalling to occur with the added pressure on lifter face and cam lobe.

Used Uber when my wife and I were in Washington DC a year ago and it was very convenient. (I think it was almost always a Prius, but then we aren't Yetti's...

It is all about local geography. I often use my Mooney for work travel as I live on an island ( a big island, but an island nonetheless..) and about half of my travel requires an expensive ferry ride for 2 hours, plus waiting. I can fly there in 15 minutes. Also, most other destinations are smaller towns and commercial flights typically need at least one stopover, thus adding more time, pain/suffering. Factor in the security dance and Mooney is a no-brainer. Plus being able to operate on YOUR schedule is priceless. Like Hyett6420 said, the Mooney is a time machine.

It all starts by renting a plane. I used a C152 to run a few tests to see customers. The questions that come up are by the dozens. You can't imagine how good the tool can be. You can't imagine the details involved. Problems I've had. - Slow to depart one day because a brake leak. - stuck overnight because of a mag problem. - late at the other end because of taxi availability. I used to sell machinery. Flying a plane provides for a great conversation to build new relationships. I gave a ride to a customer once. A couple years Later he offered me a job where I worked for a decade... its only a tool. But, it can be very powerful. Prior to having a PPL, you can get your flight instructor to fly you around. then rent. then own. then acquire tremendous skills like the instrument rating. We have an MSer here that is discussing his next business plane to get his team to customer locations... It is a lot of work done over years of time. just remember, the years are going by whether you acquire the skills or the plane.... Best regards, -a-

Let me give my opinion on your first question: Is a Mooney appropriate for business use? As much as I love my Mooney and would encourage you to buy one and learn to fly it, a Mooney is not the "time machine" that a business jet is. Mooneys are not capable of getting you to those business appointments with a high degree of reliability. They just aren't equipped for real "all weather" flying. Secondly, getting to an airport near your business meetings is not the same thing as landing where you need to be. You will learn the vagaries of renting cars at small airports. If you really love to fly, you will find a way, but from a pragmatic standpoint, do what most business people do: drive, or use the airlines/rental cars. Safer, cheaper and often faster.

Ive taught students in the Mooney so you can do it. The biggest thing to consider is that as a new private pilot your launch rate may be somewhat low. You'll want to ease into trips. Most pilots start out spending more time flying locally. If you're prepared for the likelyhood that you'll buy the plane but still need to drive half the time you may be ok. Make sure you get an experienced Mooney instructor Legaly any cfi can do it and many will but it's not advisable -Robert

my general thought is that if travel can be made in 3 hours or less by car, then I won't save any time flying unless there turns out to be heavy traffic for some reason. I have heard that living in So Cal is different due to the heavy traffic. I am also 20 minutes from my field. That said, I still choose to fly because it is enjoyable. because flying is a luxury and it makes no economic sense, I never recommend taking on a loan for a plane. I believe loans are for necessities only, but that's just me. you won't be able to make flights whenever you want year around. Weather, particularly ice, will have you grounded at times. I might be wrong, but I don't think 6 months is enough time to get a PPL and IR.. If it is, it is probably too rushed...

Overall it looks like a nice plane. I wasn't trying to scare you away with my engine comment. Buying planes is about assessing value and managing financial risk. There are no certainties with engines but it is easier to assess the risk of needing an overhaul with some engines than others. This engine hasn't been overhauled since 1972 but most of the key components have been repaired or replaced in a piecemeal fashion over the years. What that means for longevity potential is anyone's guess. If I were buying this aircraft I would make sure I could afford an overhaul in the near future. I'm not saying that it won't run a good long time, there are just too many unknowns to not be prepared in this case. Are you getting it for a price that leaves you with the resources for an overhaul?

There are a number of planes at every airport that need to be flown and are literally wasting away. In the last 8 years, I flew a Cherokee 235 and a Skylane in exchange for washing, waxing and assisting with annuals. I also bought a tire or two, a rudder bungee and some oil and filters. The owners, one elderly WWII vet and one busy doctor were delighted to have someone put 50 or so hours a year on their plane that would have otherwise been deteriorating. A renters policy will protect you both. Hang around the FBO, talk to the maintanece shop on your field. You might be surprised what kind of a deal is available.

So when I tried to pump up the right brake there was nothing. Pedal goes all the way to the stop. So I opened the bleed valve. Brake fluid dripped out. It was a little darker than normal. Closed bleed off tried to pump brakes, nothing. My A&P pushed some fluid from caliper up. I was watching reservoir and the air bubble came out. Full break peddle, no more turning left! Thanks Everyone for Ya'll help!!

The main runway, which I have never used, is 7200+5800' overrun. It's the old Kincheloe AFB that closed down a long time ago. I use the shorter 5000' one that is always directly into the wind. I park in a new hangar that sits on the alert pads at the bottom left corner of the photo - exactly where the F-106's parked back in the 60s to intercept those Russian bombers. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk