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It's been a long search, but it patience has paid off. Thanks to all for the info and encouragement shared on this site.

Final Report https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=20150707X22207&key=1 I have nothing against military pilots, indeed I admire them. However, I find this report tough to read. Nearly 40 seconds elapsed from the first of 3 calls to the fighter pilot until the F16 impacted the C150... The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows: The approach controller's failure to provide an appropriate resolution to the conflict between the F-16 and the Cessna. Contributing to the accident were the inherent limitations of the see-and-avoid concept, resulting in both pilots' inability to take evasive action in time to avert the collision. Do you think that if the fast mover had been a Glasair III instead of an F16 the investigator would have left that pilot's actions completely out of the determination. I feel really bad for that controller. Apparently had she had simply said "expedite turn" instead of first calling traffic, then issuing a heading instruction if no contact, and then issuing an immediate turn, this would not have happened. There is a valuable lesson to be learned here...and that lesson is that if you get broadsided at low level by a fast moving military aircraft traveling in excess of 250kts at 1600msl outside of an MOA the fault lies with everyone else but the guy traveling in excess of 250kts at 1600msl outside of an MOA. What I find troubling is that I saw no mention of the 200kt speed limit below 2500AGL within 4 miles of an airport. This controller's actions certainly contributed to the incident. Though I disagree with the investigator on the manner of that contribution. The Falcon was informed early enough and often enough. If he had complied instead of delaying and questioning, this would not have happened. In terms of ATC, I can find no wisdom in vectoring a 250kt fast mover almost directly toward an uncontrolled airport at an altitude just 500ft above TPA. The collision appears to have occurred less than 400ft above TPA (for piston aircraft) and less than 4NM from the airport thought no final altitude data is given for the F16 . I think this is likely the most important factor in the incident; the NTSB however, is more focused on the meanings of the words "immediately" and "expedite"...

Last Saturday I had my second lesson, and the drinking from a firehose sensation was definitely more manageable than the first lesson. To a point. Somehow, working the radios while flying the plane was impossible for me. The lesson began with my CFI informing me that the winds on the ground at our home airport were challenging, but if we flew down to Lumberton, the winds were almost directly up and down the runway, so off we went. Straight and level flight was easier, level turns were easier as was setting the trim, now that I've established that the plane doesn't fall out of the sky when I momentarily shift my attention here or there. During the first lesson, I would fixate on one task or gauge, obviously to the detriment of everything else, and so I was actively working to keep my eyes nimble and my attention, agile. For the most part, I was successful, but increased repetitions will make this more autonomous and less "effortful". I'd anticipated that landing the plane was going to be very very difficult, in particular, lining up on the runway for the approach turning off the base leg. I've been reading a lot of training materials and this was a significant negative performance issue, but on this particular day (with the winds and the runway aligned), it wasn't that difficult. Also, while the runway at 2GC is really narrow, KLBT is very very wide, so I'm not going to get too cocky about a one-time success. Another point of performance that I need to improve and rapidly is aircraft control on the ground. I'm garbage. I need less power and a better perception of the proper amount of brake force. Overall, my takeaway from the session is that piloting an aircraft is difficult, but far from impossible, and that's has me enthusiastic about what I'll learn next lesson, which, would have been this weekend, but social obligations, family (and two torn ligaments in my right foot which are REALLY AGITATED right now) have forced me to flex to the right on the calendar.

Personally IMO There are too many unnecessary forums now. Plus I disagree with the premise for re-drawing the line. The simple fact is, the forum designation has very little to do with the content posted and the direction threads go. The more you try to define boundaries the more meaningless they are. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you're gonna do that, then make it 3 forums: short, mid, and long bodies. A J has as much in common with a C as with an O. Personally, I don't want to miss any model specific discussions pertaining to J/Ks. I don't care too much about carbureted engines or 300hp turbos. Sure it can be entertaining and sometimes I stop by. But unless it's "Mooney General", then I only find relevance in J discussions. Maybe you can add this option to the poll?

"On an approach"? The approaches into Charleston don't start clear over at Sumter! Yes, he was IFR, the controller tried telling him to turn, the fighter pilot chose not to. Weather was VMC, so separation is up to the pilot. He didn't do a good job at that, either. But he did talk back to the controller very well; after all, he was a highly paid professional pilot flying a bad ass jet fighter, the skies belong to him. And they did, right up until he merged his piece of sky with that little Cessna that had just taken off and had not had a chance to call Approach yet. But somehow, the fault is on the controller alone . . . and not shared with the man with the stick in his hand and his eyes supposed to be out the window looking for traffic.

I vote to either leave it the same as it is now, or create three groups: Vintage: M20A-G Classic: M20J-K-L Modern: M20M-V JMHO.

This sounds like a config prob between the gtn 750 and kap150.Both kap 150 and 225 have no way to tell if Rnav Lpv appr is enabled...the gtn 750 should be set to manual prompt "enable a/p output"..so that with RNav LPV approachs the gtn 750 after determining rais ,should message "enable ap guidance?"...typically,you start approach in heading mode if being vectored..or nav mode if own nav to IF.Either way ,altitude is manual per appr plate..somewhere between IF and FAF...the gtn 750 /530w/avadyne 540 etc should message ,and at that time ,once ap output is enabled ..than you hit appr mode on KFC 150 to couple approach.

Those 3 groupings don't make any more sense than what we have now. A 1967 F with a Johnson bar has more in common with the short bodies than it does with a 1998 J.

Is it back open to the public? I'll be flying down Friday morning and leaving Sunday. I just bought an air mattress and lantern today. I have a 10-person tent as well. I'm getting excited as I've been going for 10 years and this is my first that I'll be flying in. I'll be parking in vintage and will be making a MooneySpace t-shirt.

That's a cool story. So may I summarize? You traded in the Cirrus for an M20K and a Church!

The controller gave a conditional turn request initially and then subsequently gave an "immediate" turn instruction. The pilot used the heading bug to initiate a standard rate turn. Paragraph 2-1-5, "Expeditious Compliance," states, in part, that controllers should "use the word 'immediately' only when expeditious compliance is required to avoid an imminent situation." If I'm in IMC, VMC, on an approach or in cruise, if a controller gave me a conditional turn for conflicting traffic followed shortly by an "immediate" turn, I'd be in that turn so damn fast that even 201er would be impressed.

Heck anybody can land an airplane what's the big deal? Of course if you want to use the plane again that gets a little more difficult. Anyway congratulations on taking the first steps to becoming an aviator. You will come to understand what is going on more and more. I remember my first lesson trying to steer the plane with the yoke on the ground and no clue what was going on with the radio, starting the engine any of that. By the 4th or 5th lesson I was pretty much in control of everything and the instructor was giving verbal guidance only. I learned at a towered field which I think was good because I was never afraid of the radio and talking to the tower or anyone else. Power on stalls they were interesting at first I thought the plane was almost on it back though it really wasn't and I thought the plane was not going to stop until it hit the ground.

40 seconds is an eternity.. "In my opinion" there is clearly some level of corruption in this finding. Yet another reason why I am nervous to do anything in the aviation industry.

The NTSB is obviously bending over backward to try and exonerate the military pilot by throwing the controller under the bus. Interesting that the NTSB in their report quote the AIM on what an "immediate" instruction means, and then ignore what they just said and then invent a new term retroactively (expedite). The NTSB has dropped a few rungs in credibilty in my eyes. Also, they find fault with the guy that got t-boned by saying he should have been able see and avoid a collision with an F16 approaching at high speed from the 9 o'clock position coming out of the sun. Bizarre.

That's a technique issue. As mentioned, mine is quite similar. But the most important thing to me on gear procedure is consistency. Whatever the procedure one uses, it should be an SOP done so consistently that it becomes a habit. My three "habit" stories I think illustrate the point (short versions): I mentioned my procedure is to lower the gear when 3 miles from the airport and at pattern altitude. During a checkout, my CFI started laughing. I looked at him wondering and he pointed to my hand. We were at pattern altitude early, about 4-5 miles from the airport. Unconsciously, my hand had moved to the gear handle and was shaking in anticipation. I had an IFR emergency and managed to get to an airport with high ceilings and land. I don't recall putting the gear down, but I did. Best I can figure I put it down where I always did. I came close to a gear-up only once. It was the second flight after the time (the only time) I tried a new procedure.

What about us ancients - past 80 group. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Has it been that many? Oh how posts fly.

You know like the starter. 4 bolts. 1 wire connection. But you have to take the alternator off to get to two of the bolts. They said replacing the fuel pump could not be done without removing a mag. Sometimes yetti paws are a deterrent sometimes long fingers are helpful. Crows feet are your friends. There is a lot of finesse and being able to work blind that goes into mooney maintenance. The professional just kind of grins when I asks if he wants to do it or supervise me. For some reason he always chooses to supervise.

The problem I have with the short-medium-long body differentiation is that while a 1975 M20F is more like an M20J than anything else, a 1967 M20F with Johnson bar is more like my 1964 M20C than a 201. And don't get me started on the M20G, which is technically a medium body but practically nothing like an M20J.

Yeah, what Paul said... and exactly why I voted No.

I thought Lotus made unreliable cars and Microsoft made unreliable software? Oh, I see the similarity now...

I think you are going to have much better luck finding the plane first, then the instructor. Instructor owner pilots like myself don't typically use their personal aircraft for instruction. Our non-commercial/private insurance policies prohibit it.

There is also the Bravo section that is not grouped with the others.... I'm not convinced that more sections are better, in this case. Steven...is there some specific content that you are trying to extract? Perhaps it is a section on power plants? Is it Lycoming vs Continental? Normally aspirated vs. turbo? Handling qualities? The basic airframes seem to have more in common than not...similar gear...tail....wings...structure.

Not sure..I think he has a Garmin 330/345 and prob was working with prior Garmin 430. I think...anyway he replaced that for IFD 440 and is unhappy he has lost adsB function.He thinks he gets better ATC service with ADSB,Anyway ..because of 10.20 delay...he now wants to sale his airplane I guess.Personally ,he sounds like a complete idiot!

You may be a little leaner than best economy. Somwhere near where you are, airspeed takes a tremendous hit for each .1 gph saved. Iirc it was around 25-35 ish LOP was the best efficiency before the massive drop.

I voted no. Either leave it be or go to three sections short, mid, and long. Not only are the lengths different but so are the eras for each. Also, folks, please don't post universal Mooney stuff to specific sections and specific model stuff to General. I often skip vintage for example but then am disappointed to find something interesting about all Mooneys hiding there or vice versa.

Don't let marauder hear you bringing up tits!

19 NM is 9.5NM to either shore from the middle. My glide is >2NM / 1000 FT, so 5,000 would get me to shore one way or the other. Now mind you, based on the many channel crossings I've done on the surface, if you can ditch in one piece with those winter seas you're one lucky guy.

Whoever bought this would be renaming themselves Alex #2, and might as well follow my thread to a Tee. I spent $5k for tanks and $5k for annual. But now its clean and safe I hope a A&P/IA see's this and buys it as a project. Wouldn't take but mostly labor!

As a SR22 owner i should probably say something. Something.....

I needed the money that was in the Cirrus for our church building fund. When I sold it I had made an agreement with the new owner that would allow me to continue to fly it occasionally. That agreement quickly fell apart after the purchase was complete. A very good friend of mine didn't want me to be without and airplane and with the circumstances being what they were he purchased the K for me. I purchased Don Maxwell's N231JY. I use it primarily to travel for ministry work. That's the short version of the story. Since purchasing the K on October 27th 2016 I have flown it for over 100 hours and have enjoyed it very much. I like the flight characteristics better than the Cirrus. I like the room in the Cirrus better than the K. The Cirrus was a very easy airplane to fly. People stall and spin Cirrus airplanes for the same reason they do any other airplane. Uncoordinated flight at too high of an angle of attack. Takeoffs in the Cirrus were easier. Landing the Mooney seems easier to me. I never have had trouble controlling the speed of either airplane. Pull power back and point the nose up and they both slow down fairly quickly. When I do buy a new airplane it will be a difficult choice between a Mooney or a Cirrus. Not have their pluses and minuses. Sorry if if there are lots of mispellings. I am trying to respond from my phone and I have fat fingers. Lol.

OMG! You just discovered a new debate point for LOP v. ROP that has not been beat to death! Break out the gloves fellas.

Again, don't let the transition get to you. It is after all just another airplane. Think speed on final and are the wheels down crossing the fence and all will be OK. Everything else will take care of itself with time and experience in type.

I'd bet that 95% of the discussion in vintage applies to "modern" and versa visa. How about instead divide it by such as Mooney Maintenance Mooney Flying Personally the maintenance is all that is interesting to me. -Robert

Plus the fact that one was a highly trained professional and the other a regular guy just up flying with his dad.

No, call that place "Hell", and if we have to have it, make it require a separate sign in so people don't accidentally end up there! I thought this was resolved last month . . . . And I only have 7500 posts since Oct 2008.

There was a rental Mooney in NJ. A pilot flubbed a go around, killing all on board in the crash. The rental Mooney is gone . . .

And another one hits the ticker... you do know you'll never catch Anthony?

That probably puts you close to Carson's speed and that's why it is so efficient.

If you look at the Mooney web site, they offer only one or the other as an option. Temporary comfort on the ground is no reason to sacrifice safety. If the OAT is too hot, climb a little higher. BTW, I have had icing in FL, too!

Covering all the bases is a good way to play it... Best regards, -a-

It's not the em gear release, I learned that lesson shortly after buying my J. Added checking the release as part of my pre-flight.

The Cirrus airframe spins and recovers just fine. It passed spin testing to attain JAA certification in Europe. They were able to leverage the chute installation to get a waiver from the FAA. This was done to speed the certification process and not due to some deficiency in the airframe... I wish people (especially Mooney pilots) would stop parroting this nonsense.

Weber's is one option. AirMods in New Jersey is another (N87).

my friend was complaining that the parachute repack (?) is due next year for $15k. It's definitely in a different price level than my vintage mooney.

Ok. I have a final final date of the 4th March. So this week the final lacquer coat is going on. (Possibly today even). Then the flying surfsces are being attached, rigged, tuned etc. Interior is being added next week. Flight testing is being done next wek and the following week. We have asked for at least 5 hours minimum to be carried out before we get anywhere near the aircraft. My partner and i will then fly for two hours each and include a full test of all the instruments and AP. Then we get into our immersion suits and take her back home. I CANNOT WAIT. i have a powerpoint slideshow which i have put together of the paint process. Ill post it when all the flight controls are back on. To give you an example of the quality, the paint stripes you can see, continue on the inside of the flight controls, ie the bit that is normally hidden and painters ignore. Watch this space, you will soon see the finished result.

Flying into KBOW again on Saturday or Sunday this year, working in our Lakeland office Monday and hitting the show Tuesday and Wednesday before it gets wall to wall with people. Hopefully get the corporate condo (if we haven't sold it) or stay with friends.