Lionudakis

C models with fuel flow instrument installed ?

23 posts in this topic

I'm installing an Insight G3 in my early C model, I've installed dozens and dozens of Jpi's, Insights, and Auracle's in everything you can name, except a Mooney.   Does anyone who has a fuel flow transducer (of any company) installed recall exactly how or where the fuel flow tranducer is orientated in line with the fuel line on a carbed mooney? To install it correctly it must be level with the aircraft in flight and use no angled fitting before and after the sensor, this is in the instructions of each brands sender. The tight cowl of our birds is rather limiting on a proper install compared to others makes. These stipulations are challenging on this thing !

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On my I0 360 injected I put it between the intake pipes and sump directly under the cylinders. I didn't think it was the best place for it, but given the JPI stipulations, their isn't many choices.

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Here are a couple of pictures.  We used large Adel Clamps and some fabricated steel brackets. I've been keeping an eye on it and haven't noticed any problems.  Its reading correctly.

post-7624-0-37270200-1363019641_thumb.jp

post-7624-0-57672200-1363019699_thumb.jp

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I have installed an Insight G3 in my  '67 M20C  with fuel flow transducer. The hardest problem I had was getting / finding the correct AN straight male  nipple pipe  fitting between Carburetor and fuel flow transducer.

The part number had changed and I am sorry I can't what it is off the top of my head. I think I went with stainless if my memory serves me correctly. I didn't have to shorten the fuel line and   I didn't remove the angle fitting from the  fuel line either.

 I don't know how or where you would mount fuel transducer other wise. I  upgraded to the new software  (2.46)  If it is new you probably won't have to about software update.  When I flew it the other day @ 2500'  fuel flow seem pretty close (less than a gph)  to the POH.  The version of  software that I had previously the fuel flow  was way off. I did call Insight about fire sleeve insulation around  the fuel flow transducer Because I was told that either JPI or EI required it but Insight said it wasn't necessary that Insight built their own transducers. Also I do  believe I did ask Insight about the"no angled fittings" comment but I don't recall them giving me a straight answer other than They knew  that their were Mooney's in service with their  fuel flow transducer are installed in them . Which of course could mean any thing.

Hope this helps

James

'67 M20C

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I see a big difference in the room available between the different models ! In the first pic 601RX posted, compared to mine, where the fuel line goes off the pic (upper right corner) is where it ties into my fuel pump, but where your silver clamp is (viewed between the exhaust risers) is exactly where my fuel line goes into a 45 fitting in the carb, not much room to 'level off' the fuel line, along with fittings and hose connections . Also swinging out toward the left cowl doesnt work as I dont want my fuel line anywhere near the exhaust, firesleeved or not. I actually think I'm down to paralleling the bottom of the cylinder going forward, through the sensor, then making a u turn backwards into the carb.

 

Have to do my 4 days at work, then get back out and see what I can come up with. So far just playing with the G3 in the hangar, it's a neat unit, looking forward to the real time vibration. I do prop balancing also, it will be interesting to see the in flight vs. dynamic balancing results !       

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Here are a couple of pictures.  We used large Adel Clamps and some fabricated steel brackets. I've been keeping an eye on it and haven't noticed any problems.  Its reading correctly.

us too

post-7887-0-30375300-1363061182_thumb.jp

scottfromiowa likes this

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I see a big difference in the room available between the different models ! In the first pic 601RX posted, compared to mine, where the fuel line goes off the pic (upper right corner) is where it ties into my fuel pump, but where your silver clamp is (viewed between the exhaust risers) is exactly where my fuel line goes into a 45 fitting in the carb, not much room to 'level off' the fuel line, along with fittings and hose connections . Also swinging out toward the left cowl doesnt work as I dont want my fuel line anywhere near the exhaust, firesleeved or not. I actually think I'm down to paralleling the bottom of the cylinder going forward, through the sensor, then making a u turn backwards into the carb.

 

Have to do my 4 days at work, then get back out and see what I can come up with. So far just playing with the G3 in the hangar, it's a neat unit, looking forward to the real time vibration. I do prop balancing also, it will be interesting to see the in flight vs. dynamic balancing results !       

I had also played around with the idea of letting the line go forward more after it left the transducer and then make a 180 in it and come back into the fuel servo body with a 90 on the end of the hose into the servo body.

47U likes this

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The problem is all you E/F/J drivers don't have to put it on a fuel line running to a carburetor way down on the bottom of the engine. Things are different for the C models.

 

Keep us posted. I'd like to add fuel flow, but have nowhere to put a display other than a back page on the 430W.

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I will be travelling down this road later this year and will greatly appreciate it if you can keep us advised of lessons learned.

 

Best,

jhr

 

1968 M20C

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Cs can add fuel flow to a JPI display. Both FF and Cht/EGT would be excellent additions to the existing hardware!

A 930 could replace existing instruments that are crummy from day one...

I would be inclined to add it to the lower cost 700 series if my budget was tight.

Best regards,

-a-

dkane1 likes this

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I would be interested in what other 'C' drivers have done with the transducer too.  I have a FS450 sitting on the shelf in the hanger waiting to be installed on mine.  So far I have only looked at two other C's with transducers and both were mounted similarly to the Insight G3 that jamesm posted photos of.  Directly off the carb on the fuel input fitting.  But JPI's instructions don't allow it to be hard mounted onto something like the carb. 

 

Can the fuel (in) fitting be moved onto the other side of the carb?  It looks like it can.  If so, the transducer could be installed behind the carb in an orientation that would be as per the instructions.

 

Regards,

Dan

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I don't know heavy the FS450 transducer is but the installation manual shows the  Insight G3  fuel flow transducer is about  6oz the wire going to the transducer probably weighs more the transducers itself. Beside  It's in  Mooney were space is at  premium especially in the Engine compartment.

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Here's a picture I took during installation of the EI FP-5L transducer.  I have several others if anyone needs installation pics.

 

http://mooneyspace.com/gallery/image/33953-fuel-flow-transducer/

 

Incidentally, my installation fitted best if I used a "45" on one end and a straight connector on the other end of the transducer.  I called EI and they said it was "okay", but it is preferable to have the same type fitting on both ends.  My display will sometimes jump a few tenths, but the overall accuracy for fuel burned is very accurate.  I never had to adjust the K factor at all.  The technical support was great.

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This is what we came up with. The fuel line routing Uses straight fittings in and out of the transducer, the transducer is level, and right side up, and the hose bends are kept to a minimum, and has more than adequate clearance from the exhaust. The lines are supported by an adel clamp on the firewall and just below the oil cooler. A simple routing as on an IO-360 just isn't possible with the location of the carb and fuel pump for a proper install, and without some really tight bends in the fuel line. Sent from my iPad

post-7582-13664695955217_thumb.jpg

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I only have a few hours in it recently, but the Insight G3 is really cool. I like how the info is displayed and its straight forward menus. My pcu5000 governor works much better than the old one. The original one had something not quite right, before it started puking oil. Now with the info I can try to get the chat under control. Sent from my iPad

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When I bought my J it had the flow transducer mounted on top of the engine in line with the flow divider. It works well and has never given me any trouble.

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An injected engine, or a carbed on any other plane is usually easy. An IO with the flow divider on top is pretty straight forward, the carbed C model is a challenge because of the location of the eng driven pump and the carb, and the firewall, and everything in between does not allow for an install by the book, and it seems by the inquiries to my original post, other have had the same obstacle. Sent from my iPad

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Is it just me or is Jet Drivens pic of engine so clean it appears to never fly? That is one nice engine bay. I would eat off of it...

My G3 and EI fuel flow are dead nuts on. Flew today and sumps were right on. Very reassuring.

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Is it just me or is Jet Drivens pic of engine so clean it appears to never fly? That is one nice engine bay. I would eat off of it...

My G3 and EI fuel flow are dead nuts on. Flew today and sumps were right on. Very reassuring.

 

That last photo I posted is so clean because it hadn't flown yet.  Although I do try to keep it pretty clean since we stuffed a new engine in it.

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The transducer in my 68 C for the JPI 450 is exactly located like in the picture posted by Perezhr.  I also recall that the mechanic could not finish the installation until he got a special fitting, 90 deg I believe.

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