tfloyd Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 Seeking advice on installing shoulder harness kits in a 1967 M20F. Currently have only the lap belts. From prior posts, it appears the shoulder harness kits are only available for the front seats. The only kit that I can find are those offered by Alpha Aviation, although prior posts have referenced AMSAFE and LASAR. I also would like to hear thoughts on inertial reel versus the fixed strap. I assume the inertial reel will be more convenient and worth the extra costs, but would like to hear from those with experience. Thanks for your help. Tom N6304Q 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBill Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 I had a Beech Sundowner with the inertial reel upgrade (don't know the brand) but I'm glad my Mooney has the fixed shoulder belt. The IRs were a PITA. Were real touchy about gripping and letting go. Once in place they were fine but given I did not have an autopilot on that, once my seat was in position, it stayed there. Unlike my Mooney where on long trips, I'll move it back and "stretch out". BILL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARZ Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 I went the other way - fixed to inertia reel I found the fixed much too restricting during the flight wound up loosening the harness and then having one more thing to remember whilst coming in for landing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 I would have gotten the inertial reel at least on the pilots side. You have to unclip the shoulder harness to reach the fuel selector on the floor in a 1977 or earlier Mooney. EDIT: we have the fixed straps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabremech Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 I'm with Jetdriven. I wish I had the inertia reel type in mine. David N2652W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N601RX Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 I put the inertia reel alpha belts in 2 years ago and like them. I have no problem reaching down and turning the fuel selector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PilotDerek Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 Same as N601RX. I put the inertia belts in just over a year ago. I feel much better with them then just the old lap belt. Since each Mooney is handbuilt installing the shoulder belts can be a pain in the butt. We had to take out the windows on the pilot side the passenger side was easier. It is all a matter of having enough space to get around the cage. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-sky-captain Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 I have the fixed straps on a 77 J and have no issues reaching the fuel selector while staying buckled in with the shoulder harness. I've never used IR so I can't compare the two, although I would like to get some shoulder harnesses for the rear seats. Is this avaliable?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikerocosm Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 Ditto on The-Sky-Captain. I installed fixed belts from Alpha Aviation a month ago (no sweat on copilot side, royal PITA on pilot side). They're so smooth to use, they can be loosened with one hand very easily (if necessary) to rotate the fuel selector, and tighten right back up. I figure now that I have them, I'll never need them! Good luck! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboy0681 Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 I put the inertia reel alpha belts in 2 years ago and like them. I have no problem reaching down and turning the fuel selector. Same experience. I like them a lot but wish they had a slimmer profile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottfromiowa Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 I have the fixed straps on a 77 J and have no issues reaching the fuel selector while staying buckled in with the shoulder harness. I've never used IR so I can't compare the two, although I would like to get some shoulder harnesses for the rear seats. Is this avaliable?? O.K., I'll bite. How in the H.E. double toothpick can you switch tanks with the fixed shoulder harness fastened properly? I just unhook the shoulder harness only when switching tanks. Just a non-event. I saw no reason to pay additional $ for the inertia reel type belt and don't long for one...BUT I do think anyone who flies with only lap belts only in front seats of a Mooney should have adequate life and liability insurance...and a plastic surgery fund set aside. This was the first item I corrected when I bought my Mooney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 The thing that concerns me is if you have a power interruption on takeoff. Mooney says pump on and switch tanks. So, now you have to undo or loosen your shoulder harness to get that fuel valve. Which leaves you without effective protection in what could well be a crash landing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 I have the fixed straps on a 77 J and have no issues reaching the fuel selector while staying buckled in with the shoulder harness. I've never used IR so I can't compare the two, although I would like to get some shoulder harnesses for the rear seats. Is this avaliable?? O.K., I'll bite. How in the H.E. double toothpick can you switch tanks with the fixed shoulder harness fastened properly? Probably the same way Harry Houdini got out of straightjackets. Dislocate a shoulder! I suspect they are pulling up on the adjustment tab to give themselves slack. I do like you, I unclip it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardheitzman Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 Mooney has the engineering drawings to add the IR to most Mooney aircraft. There is a plate that is welded to the fusalage tubular structure, down by the floor board area, and the IR mounts there. The webbing comes up and goes through a d-ring at the B pillar and then comes down accross the body. I know for a fact this can be done on M20J and above. I will have to look at the drawing to see if you can do that for the M20F. it is called a 140319-501/2 retainer assembly. Well i took a look at the drawing and it is just M20J and above for the IR. BUT, I suggest you talk with a Mooney service center like Don Maxwell or LASAR to confirm. If you just want fixed shoulder harness, that is easy, talk with B.A.S. or Alpha Aviation to order that system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaV8or Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 I have IR belts from Alpha in my F. No welding required. I love them. Well worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottfromiowa Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 The thing that concerns me is if you have a power interruption on takeoff. Mooney says pump on and switch tanks. So, now you have to undo or loosen your shoulder harness to get that fuel valve. Which leaves you without effective protection in what could well be a crash landing. HMMmmm. O.K. THAT is an issue. I have already resolved that for myself on a personal level. If I lose power on climb out I am putting it down. There will be no tank switching. No turning back if down low, just searching for the best spot to put it down, flying the airplane To INCLUDE FLAPS and hopefully walking away... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottfromiowa Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 I already have boost pump on for all take-offs and landings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tfloyd Posted January 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 Thanks everyone for the feedback. I definately appreciate the need to install the shoulder straps - and should have completed the upgrade previously. Hopefully, I will never have the need, and having them installed will provide additional insurance that I'll never have an issue. I am leaning toward the Alpha IR. Plan to install during the annual inspection later this month. I have learned alot from this forum. Glad to be a new member. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 Same here! I like to switch tanks every 30 minutes or so and I have to unhook the shoulder harness every time. It is a royal pain and makes me wish for IR. if someone has a trick for doing this without unhooking I sure would like to know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 I have a PVC stick I can send you a drawing of, that you can change tanks sitting upright belt fastened. If I had to do it over again, Id do the inertial reel on the left side and the fixed on the right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 I have a PVC stick I can send you a drawing of, that you can change tanks sitting upright belt fastened. If I had to do it over again, Id do the inertial reel on the left side and the fixed on the right. would you? I'm not as limber as I use to be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M016576 Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 <blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="tfloyd" data-cid="86203" data-time="1357519460"><p> Seeking advice on installing shoulder harness kits in a 1967 M20F. Currently have only the lap belts. From prior posts, it appears the shoulder harness kits are only available for the front seats. The only kit that I can find are those offered by Alpha Aviation, although prior posts have referenced AMSAFE and LASAR. I also would like to hear thoughts on inertial reel versus the fixed strap. I assume the inertial reel will be more convenient and worth the extra costs, but would like to hear from those with experience. <br /> <br /> Thanks for your help.<br /> <br /> Tom<br /> N6304Q</p></blockquote> Alpha aviation makes "inertial reel" and "fixed strap" kits for multiple types of aircraft. Some require an STC, some don't. In the case of the m20J, for example, the "inertial reel upgrade" from alpha doesn't require an STC. AMSAFE is the actual producer of the seat belts and inertial reels that alpha aviation sells in their kits. LASAR is a mooney service center which might also fabricate belts for your mooney: they have lots of custom mods that they market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcrogers11 Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Ditto on the PVC device. Mine was about $3.00. Its a piece of 1" pvc and 18" long with a 1.5" bushing on the end wth a slot hand cut in it to match the fuel selector. I put a 1" pvc Tee at the top that runs the same as the slot at the other end to use as an indicator. Just make sure it doesn't get placed between the seats with Johnson Bar models. Sidenote, my Instrument Instuctor was insistent that I install shoulder harnesses in the front on my C model, which I did. He's had an off-field landing and he gives a lot of credit to his survival to the shoulder belts. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Ditto on the PVC device. Mine was about $3.00. Its a piece of 1" pvc and 18" long with a 1.5" bushing on the end wth a slot hand cut in it to match the fuel selector. I put a 1" pvc Tee at the top that runs the same as the slot at the other end to use as an indicator. Just make sure it doesn't get placed between the seats with Johnson Bar models. Sidenote, my Instrument Instuctor was insistent that I install shoulder harnesses in the front on my C model, which I did. He's had an off-field landing and he gives a lot of credit to his survival to the shoulder belts. Don Don - can you post a picture of your "PVC device"? If I can see the parts, I'm sure I can figure out what fittings they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N601RX Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 I've got the Alpha Aviation lap belts for the back seats. I'm trying to decide on fixed or IR in the front seats. What about IR for the Pilot and Fixed for the Copilot, Front Right seater? My thought is that the belt would be a good "handle" for the rear seat passengers to use for ingress/egress. Thoughts? Anthony The reel is mounted on a single bolt and will rotate pretty easy if pulled on. My plane is back flying now if you want to stop by and see how the ir ones from alpha work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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