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Mooney crash in NY area


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#141 Marauder

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 04:28 AM

That beautiful laminar flow wing has very high drag at high angles of attack. The M20J does not accelerate very briskly and attempting to pull it off the runway before it is ready will result in vastly diminished performance.  if the stall warning was sounding continuously from liftoff, that says a lot.

 

 

Within 25 hours after buying my Mooney I experienced this first hand. I had taken off fine from an airport with a full load of passengers, luggage and fuel -- within 50 lbs. of max weight and well within the CG envelope. Experienced no problems. Flew for 2 hours to my destination, came in to land, didn't like how I was lining up and elected to do a go around. Added full power, flaps to take-off and could not climb out of ground effect. Cleared the end of the runway about wings length above the surface, nose high, stall chirping. It took every bit of my will power to push the nose over and lose about 15 feet of altitude to gain speed. After the nose was down, she accelerated rapidly and I was able to climb.

 

After the obligatory undergarment change, I spent time with my instructor and went through the scenario. He explained the concept of being behind the power curve, the loss of wing efficiency due to the high angle of attack, that the density altitude was about 1k above field elevation, that this was my real first trip with the plane loaded and an expectation that it would perform as it always did. It didn't. That event was sobering to me and enlightened me that what we do can have a thin margin of error.


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#142 flyboy0681

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 01:56 PM

 Yet on a cold winter day, he would have probably made it off from that intersection just fine.

 

Of all that was/will be written on the incident, the intersection takeoff may prove to be his most critical mistake.


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#143 201er

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 02:38 PM

Of all that was/will be written on the incident, the intersection takeoff may prove to be his most critical mistake.

Is someone willing to go prove that? Not I.



#144 aviatoreb

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 02:50 PM

Of all that was/will be written on the incident, the intersection takeoff may prove to be his most critical mistake.

 

For me, I disagree that this is the right way to interpret this crash.  There were several "one" things that could have changed the outcome, including the intersection take off, perhaps not pushing the yoke when the stall horn was blaring, refueling and so departing too heavy from a short field on a hot day, going to too short of a field in the first place when heavy on a less then cool day, and so forth.  Which one of those several things could have saved the day?  Perhaps everyone of them.  But all of them were in place.  This is a classic example of a chain of events.  


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Erik Bollt

N10933 a Green Mooney Rocket w TKS

KPTD - Potsdam, NY - way way upstate.


#145 fantom

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 03:27 PM

This is a classic example of a chain of events.  

 

No doubt....

 

Not to dismiss that after a long day, flying into a new field, having dinner, and then taking off from that, new to the pilot, airport at night. You can't teach good judgement.


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#146 flyboy0681

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 03:56 PM

This is a classic example of a chain of events.  

 

Yes, several things were in place and in play. My point was that being slow, heavy - whatever - may have been overcome or even non-factors had he had that extra few hundred feet of pavement. If it turns out to be mechanical, then all bets are off.

 

I fly regularly in and out of Tallahassee and even with 8000 feet of runway, I always taxi to the end for takeoff. Nothing like an overabundance of concrete under your feet.



#147 PTK

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 05:00 PM

 Added full power, flaps to take-off and could not climb out of ground effect. Cleared the end of the runway about wings length above the surface, nose high, stall chirping. It took every bit of my will power to push the nose over and lose about 15 feet of altitude to gain speed. After the nose was down, she accelerated rapidly and I was able to climb.

 

Unfortunately Patrick didn't have this luxury. The trees got in the way. He boxed himself in a corner with that attempted takeoff. It was set up to fail. As someone said, an extra 200 feet of runway would not have helped. But knowing he was slow and heavy, why he elected not to use full runway I'll never know. 


Peter, Cherry Hill, NJ
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