kortopates Posted August 29, 2016 Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 It's very simple really - a portable device is anything that does not require tools to mount. An permanently installed device is anything you need tools to remove or re-install and then must be approved. The definition of portable equipment versus installed (permanent) equipment has been around since far before the iPad and is not iPad specific. I don't know which RAM mount set up you have but I'd say if your SO can get it on and off without tools and without breaking a fingernail you are ok Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted August 29, 2016 Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 1 hour ago, kortopates said: It's very simple really - a portable device is anything that does not require tools to mount. An permanently installed device is anything you need tools to remove or re-install and then must be approved. But does the bracket need to be temporary. I remember selling iPod mini brackets for the instrument panel, the bracket was permanently installed but iPod could be removed. Ditto for fire extinguishers, the bracket is installed via screws but the extinguisher itself is temporary and can be removed without tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy95W Posted August 29, 2016 Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 17 minutes ago, teejayevans said: But does the bracket need to be temporary. I remember selling iPod mini brackets for the instrument panel, the bracket was permanently installed but iPod could be removed. Ditto for fire extinguishers, the bracket is installed via screws but the extinguisher itself is temporary and can be removed without tools. Then the permanently installed bracket would need a logbook signoff. "Installed ........ bracket at ............ location using standard aircraft hardware. Installation was completed IAW data found in AC 43-13 2b. Weight and balance change negligible." In this case, the owner would have to keep track of the weight of the extinguisher or iPad in the weight and balance for the flight conducted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark89114 Posted August 29, 2016 Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 Well I am one of those guys who is always in compliance with the FAR's and keep my iPad on my lap.... . But I would like to put my full size iPad on my ovation 2 yoke and am curious what RAM mount will work? I looked at their web site and was overwhelmed by choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooniac15u Posted August 29, 2016 Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 If someone were to get an A&P to sign off their yoke mount wouldn't removal of that mount then also require a signoff? So, getting a signoff would preclude an owner from removing it and flying without it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted August 29, 2016 Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 This is your government at work. The same people who brought you so many other fine activities like Prohibition. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilpilot Posted August 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 2 hours ago, mooniac15u said: If someone were to get an A&P to sign off their yoke mount wouldn't removal of that mount then also require a signoff? So, getting a signoff would preclude an owner from removing it and flying without it. Not only that, but if you loosen the clamp and slide the mount up or down the yoke shaft from where it was when the A&P inspected it, that voids the sign off. A change in position could very well create interference that wasn't there when inspected by the A&P. So you see how ridiculous this can get. I asked Sporty's this question, and they answered: "As the Ram mount is not a permanent mount or change in configuration to the aircraft, no endorsement or STC is required. I assume that you are using the iPad for personal use in your private aircraft, as such you as the PIC determines if there is any interference with other instruments. " Of course that's the answer that helps them sell yoke mounts. I'm satisfied that's the correct answer, and the notation in IFR (see my original post) can be somewhat misleading. Case closed as far as I'm concerned. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 Would the sign out have to say something like " installed Ram Suction cup tablet mount to left window using FAA approved spit from A&P 123456." Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 You need to visit a dealer to experience the many RAM options. Sporty's carries many of the pieces to build your own. I'd imagine Spruce does too.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 Just now, M20Doc said: Would the sign out have to say something like " installed Ram Suction cup tablet mount to left window using FAA approved spit from A&P 123456." Clarence No, cause when it comes off, will A&P #123456 be with you to spit on it again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooniac15u Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 I think there is some additional guidance in AC 20-173 and AC 120-76C. In 120-76C section 5j on page 2 (http://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/advisory_circular/ac_120-76c.pdf ) the FAA defines "Mounted" as " Any portable device that is attached to a permanently installed mounting device." So it seems pretty clear that it makes a difference whether the mount is permanent. In 20-173 section 5(4) on page 3 (http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC 20-173.pdf ) on "Yoke Mounts and Clips" they say, " In 14 CFR parts 25, 27, and 29 aircraft, yoke mounting of an EFB is not recommended..." It is notable that part 23 is not included in that list but it is included in other sections of the document including the immediately preceding paragraph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laytonl Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 I assume if the FAA sees my RAM yoke mount and doesn't like it I can (temporarily) remove it until airborne. Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLCarter Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 You could ask the FAA for a "letter of interpretation", but most of the ones I have read just makes it more confusing. I think most of the guys/gals doing the ramp checks could care less about an iPad / tablet on the yoke, and if they say something just go with the flow and remove it, arguing with them will only add fuel to the fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob - S50 Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 If you are afraid of the answer, don't ask the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyNameIsNobody Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 This thread ='s Face Palm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DXB Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 22 hours ago, M20Doc said: Would the sign out have to say something like " installed Ram Suction cup tablet mount to left window using FAA approved spit from A&P 123456." Clarence I get it now - my low time private pilot saliva explains why the suction cup mount for my Stratus keeps coming loose in flight. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradp Posted September 1, 2016 Report Share Posted September 1, 2016 RAM suction cup fails in flight. A&P saliva not available. Under owner produced part provision provided spit from PPL 3374053 with similar form, fit and function. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted September 2, 2016 Report Share Posted September 2, 2016 I've been ramp checked and there was no issue with either my iPad yoke mount, or the GoPro camera mounts on the tail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
201er Posted September 2, 2016 Report Share Posted September 2, 2016 On August 30, 2016 at 5:53 PM, MyNameIsNobody said: This thread ='s Face Palm... I wonder if a coffee cup in cup holder requires an STC or logbook entry. Requires finger tools for removal. May be forgotten in holder for prolonged periods of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted September 2, 2016 Report Share Posted September 2, 2016 8 hours ago, 201er said: I wonder if a coffee cup in cup holder requires an STC or logbook entry. Requires finger tools for removal. May be forgotten in holder for prolonged periods of time. Yeah, but the FAA doesn't care what's in my truck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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