chrisk Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 This afternoon I head out to the airport to fuel my plane from yesterdays trip and perform the monthly tire inflation. About 1 mile from the airport, I think I see a lightning flash in the airport direction but I wasn't sure. When I get to the airport, the skies are dark and it's obvious that a thunder storm is near by. I decide to leave the plane in the hangar and fuel it another day. I notice a Cessna coming in for a landing. --Wow I've never seen a Cessna land that fast... He goes around. Then I see a Mooney come in high and he goes around. The Mooney comes back around, and he's going really fast. --What the heck is going on. I walk out of the hangar and it hits me right in the face. --They are landing with a 20kt+ tail wind. The tower then switches the direction of the runway and the Cessna makes it back on the ground. I don't know if any of you have ever experienced this, but I had years ago. You go from a normal landing to "Why am I chewing up so much runway before I get down?" Anyway this is a potentially dangerous situation, as the weather causing a sudden wind shift can also cause it to go in the other direction and cause a stall. --Think of the classic micro burst picture. 10 minutes later, and the storm is now south of the field. The runway direction is reverted back to the original direction, since the wind shifted again. I'm in the hangar with the avionics on. The storm scope is going nuts. And I hear a radio call. Cirrus 1234 ready for departure. Tower: What is your direction of flight? Cirrus: East. Tower: There is a thunderstorm to the south east. Rain starts 1 mile from the departure end of the runway. (Runway 18). Cirrus: We'll look out for it. Tower: Cleared for takeoff. --I turn to my wife and comment. "this is how people get killed in airplanes". The pilot really should have known better. The NTSB accident reports are filled with stories like this. I just couldn't get past it. The guy could have avoided the whole mess by sitting in the pilot lounge for another 30 minutes and having a cup of coffee. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Peace Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 great observation.....thanks for sharing...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff_S Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 I fly out of a towered field all the time that caters to biz jets, and they ( the biz jets) are much more forgiving of cross and tail wind landings. It's up to the PIC to say "unable" if you need to. One time I was running ahead of a storm and they were still landing on what was rapidly becoming a downwind runway. I asked them to switch them around and they did, because they knew others would need it as well. Sometimes you just gotta' ask. As to the takeoff pilot, it might seem to you like a big risk, and I might agree, but he's the PIC and gets to make the call. We can't know the whole story unless we're there with him. After all, he does have a parachute! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M20F Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 When a front passes it is often associated with a change of direction and wind speed. If you fly through one you can usually notice the change with a bit of a thump crossing it. With a tower when this happens they will update ATIS or call the wind change on frequency. Into an uncontrolled airport just one more reason to check the wind sock while on downwind (or what you may find is upwind). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piloto Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 The wind direction uncertainty is more prone at uncontrolled fields at night. At about 1,000ft AGL and 3nm from the runway end I check my indicated airspeed against my ground speed. If the ground is lower than my airspeed then I am good to land ahead. But if my ground speed is higher I side step to the downwind and land in the opposite direction. This is most important for short runways. José 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 What is the chance of a 180° change in wind? Since storm winds rotate around a low pressure, it could happen a lot when the low passes over the airport. From similar discussions here at MS, I have added an additional item to check. Verify GPS Ground speed vs airspeed. Do the math verify the wind hasn't changed. (I probably got this idea from José) From my own experience at an untowered field... It could be too late to recognize the head/tale wind switch while on final, the familiar wind sock is just a circle for both. If you are landing with a tale wind, staring at the windsock looking for the frame work, will seem like time passing by at jet speeds. This is probably something we all do. Except the two guys at the top of this thread. Thanks for sharing this observation, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Or you could be the crew of this plane... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradp Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 And do everything you can not to be the crew of this plane. http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85332 ... But learn from them Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFromCB Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 I fly out of a towered field all the time that caters to biz jets, and they ( the biz jets) are much more forgiving of cross and tail wind landings. It's up to the PIC to say "unable" if you need to. One time I was running ahead of a storm and they were still landing on what was rapidly becoming a downwind runway. I asked them to switch them around and they did, because they knew others would need it as well. Sometimes you just gotta' ask. As to the takeoff pilot, it might seem to you like a big risk, and I might agree, but he's the PIC and gets to make the call. We can't know the whole story unless we're there with him. After all, he does have a parachute! Actually, Most jets a limited to 10knot tailwind. And I mean limited, as in a clear FAR violation when broken. It's fun sitting at Aspen airport sometimes and watch the turboprops go while the jets wait for the tail wind to die down. Sometimes a KA is really a better tool than a Gulfstream... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyNameIsNobody Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 I fly out of a towered field all the time that caters to biz jets, and they ( the biz jets) are much more forgiving of cross and tail wind landings. It's up to the PIC to say "unable" if you need to. One time I was running ahead of a storm and they were still landing on what was rapidly becoming a downwind runway. I asked them to switch them around and they did, because they knew others would need it as well. Sometimes you just gotta' ask. As to the takeoff pilot, it might seem to you like a big risk, and I might agree, but he's the PIC and gets to make the call. We can't know the whole story unless we're there with him. After all, he does have a parachute! The parachute can float down with the biggest piece after they break up. Nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 The problem with ASE is that the "reported wind" and actual wind may be very different. "Reported wind" can be very subjective when a human is involved. When I used to fly in and out of MGGT (always weight limited), taxiing out, the tower would ask us "What wind do you need this morning?". Caveat Emptor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steingar Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Returning from one of my Mooney shopping sorties I was trying to outrun a storm and landed with a sizable tailwind. Hey, the runway was long, my hangar is at the far side of it, and I could land my old Cherokee in anything. Doubt I'll be trying that in the Mooney any time soon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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