Browncbr1 Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Flying the other day, I noticed that my original vintage mooney attitude indicator might be lagging a little and in need of overhaul. I can overhaul it for about $350. I'll soon be doing a panel makeover and wondering about what others think. I am pretty sure I want a backup solution. On a limited budget, would folks recommend overhauling this one and getting an ilevil 2 sw so I could have backup ahrs, weather, and limited traffic data? I have an iPad mini with fltplan for weather and traffic and iPhone 6 plus for ahrs. Or does anyone have a better idea? Mid-continent battery backup electric horizon?? Is there any real advantage of newer style horizons compared to the old other than graphical presentation? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Flying the other day, I noticed that my original vintage mooney attitude indicator might be lagging a little and in need of overhaul. I can overhaul it for about $350. I'll soon be doing a panel makeover and wondering about what others think. I am pretty sure I want a backup solution. On a limited budget, would folks recommend overhauling this one and getting an ilevil 2 sw so I could have backup ahrs, weather, and limited traffic data? I have an iPad mini with fltplan for weather and traffic and iPhone 6 plus for ahrs. Or does anyone have a better idea? Mid-continent battery backup electric horizon?? Is there any real advantage of newer style horizons compared to the old other than graphical presentation? Thanks! Depends on the kind of flying you do and what kind of redundancy you need. I have dual Aspens, both AHRS driven with battery backups and a mechanical AI as backup. I feel a lot more comfortable in IMC knowing I have a backup of a backup of a primary. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Browncbr1, it'll be worth your while to speak to Mr. Bob Bramble about your AI. http://www.aerolabaviation.com (913) 680-4169 He will steer you in the right direction and will save you money. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browncbr1 Posted July 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 That's beyond my skill and economic will. I'm just starting to work on my instrument ticket. At this time, I have no interest in every flying hard ifr. I just want to have tools and ability to break through a layer or two and cruise in Vmc. I have no interest in loitering in soup or launching with ceilings below 2500-3000 agl. I'm still way too green to be thinking beyond that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 There is no comfortable flight in IMC without both plan A and Plan B firmly hard wired or vacuum tubed in place. TCs are not a real good device for back up AI, either. Unless you are hopelessly stuck in the analog age. My iPhone will be dead before my flight is over... Thinking out loud... Plan A: new AI or Bob Bramble OH...with internal lights. Plan B: TC, not TnB. Plan C: portable electronic adhars, plugged in. Plan D: back-up vac system. Plan E: ADHARs and iPad... Plan F: second AI. If you fly an F, three AIs is the norm(?). Go Aspens! Flying in the dark, near dark or IFR flying is that serious. Not preparing the ship is somewhat like not preparing the pilot, risking VFR flight into IMC. You really get a good feel for how deadly instruments can be while flying in turbulent weather. Watch needles bounce all over, and try to follow them. Prepare the pilot and the ship... Good to see you taking the next logical step. Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruiser Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Aspen is the best way to go if you can allocate the money. You could always start with the VFR version and upgrade later. I just installed an Levil Technologies iLevil2- AW the built in AHRS is responsive and accurate displayed on an iPad 2 in a RAM mount on the copilot yoke. I chose the AW model because: 1. it can be externally powered 2. it has remote antennae for both ADS-B and GPS 3. the unit does NOT have to be mounted in view of the sky/ground to get acceptable reception. I use both the Levil Technologies AHRS app and FlyQ to display the data. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarmaster Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Even if you do go with Aspen, you still need a backup attitude indicator. So you will not lose the overhaul cost either way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browncbr1 Posted July 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Thanks for the great advice everyone. I do like that I already have an electric turn coordinator... It sounds like I should definitely overhaul the one I already have and add another somehow rather than replace. It sounds like I could cover plan a, b, and c as mentioned above. I understood the ilevil2 SW can be plugged in and later interface with The navworx AdsB box later and it can still be powered by us but or serial ports. I understood the Difference for the AW is piping into the pitot/static system, which isn't legal in my plane as it is now. But, I now see the remote antenna difference. Anyhow, I refuse to fly at night, that's for sure. The 3 hours in my log for ppl is enough for me. Step by step, I want to setup the best / safest systems possible for the money. I thought autopilot and engine monitor systems were big safety things, so I have already invested in those in recent months. So, for me, I'm trying be smart without spending thousands. Great feedback guys. Keep it coming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browncbr1 Posted July 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 I see the but aspen is about $5k. Is it safe to say installation doubles that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 You can probably have it installed for around 7500$ total. The one caution about making a change like this to Aspen is make sure you find a way to fly behind it and be sure you do like it. Once you go in that direction the last thing you want is to find out you really don't like it. It's a very expensive way to find yourself stuck! They do suffer failures at a much higher rate than the so called steam gauges. And you are putting all your eggs in one basket. If the box decides to fail you've lost all your instruments. My feeling is there are very valid reasons the so called steam gauges need to be retained as backups to glass. Don't discount the reliability of your existing instruments. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browncbr1 Posted July 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Good points PTK, your logic is why I went with the JPI 830 rather than 900. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlunseth Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 I was just through this with my avionics shop. The Aspen does indeed have a battery backup, but it is only good for a half hour. I have also read too many stories about failures. Not enough for me. I am sticking with my steam gauges and although it may not be certified, my backup is going to be partial panel plus the Stratus 2 and Foreflight. I have had occasion to actually depend on batteries for backup, generally they last about half as long as the spec says, and at that point it gets really dark in the cockpit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 I was just through this with my avionics shop. The Aspen does indeed have a battery backup, but it is only good for a half hour. I have also read too many stories about failures. Not enough for me. I am sticking with my steam gauges and although it may not be certified, my backup is going to be partial panel plus the Stratus 2 and Foreflight. I have had occasion to actually depend on batteries for backup, generally they last about half as long as the spec says, and at that point it gets really dark in the cockpit. Just to comment on the Aspens since I am into 2.5 years of ownership and recently had a chance to try out the battery backup (my choice). I also have flown with steam gauges from the 80s until I upgraded to glass in 2012. Aspen did have an infant mortality issue when they first introduced the product. Like any new electronic product, you go through your period of startup problems. All manufacturers go through this. I think Aspen took the steps to correct this. When I purchased the Aspen 2000 in 2012, I asked a lot of questions pertaining to this and felt comfortable that the issues were corrected. My Aspens have been solid. I wish I could say the same about my Garmin GTN. As for the battery backup, in the course of troubleshooting the GTN open squelch issue, I decided to operate the Aspens as if I had a true electrical failure. This was the first time I had done this. After flying around for 45 minutes on Aspen battery only power, I was pleasantly surprised that I still had 68% power left on the batteries for the PFD and 71% on the MFD. Granted it was a warmer day and Aspen indicated that at warmer temps the batteries would last longer. And also I noted that the displayed dimmed a bit to save power, but certainly readable in bright daylight. I'm pleased to see the performance, especially since the rest of the panel was taking a nap. Steam works, until it doesn't. In the almost 30 years I have been flying, I have had gyro failures, vacuum pump failures, electrical demons, heck, even recently satanic possession of my radios. I've learned the best way to combat loss of something is training for when it happens, the second best way is to do everything you can to prevent it from happening in the first place (heavy doses of preventative maintenance) and this includes redundancy. I haven't regretted upgrading to glass. My situational awareness is better, the redundancy is comforting and I got a chance to learn something new. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browncbr1 Posted July 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 The more I have been thinking about it, the more I think I should eventually do the following... 1. overhaul original AI 2. get a used electric AI, preferably one with a battery backup? 3. get a ilevil... just would want to find a way to keep the iphone/pad cool.. .. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 https://bonanza.org/forums/index.php?topic=1273.0 Need to be really careful which company we buy into with our hard earned dollars. Very careful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 https://bonanza.org/forums/index.php?topic=1273.0 Need to be really careful which company we buy into with our hard earned dollars. Very careful! Thanks for the history lesson Peter Garmin. The most current post in that thread is 4 years old. Back then you could only buy Swiss watches. Now you actually buy digital ones. Go figure! ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N601RX Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 This is what he really thinks of Garmin! BEFORE YOU BUY THE OVERPRICED AND UNDERACHIEVING GARMINS READ THIS: http://philip.greenspun.com/flying/garmin-gps 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Fox Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 If you are worried about an emergency backup , but don't want to spend , The Stratus2 AHARS is a nice thing to have....About as legal as the Ilevel , and has the benefit of weather , TFRs , obstacles traffic etc etc..... Its a great box to have.....All in about 1200 including the Ipad... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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