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Question for George Perry on his flightstream 210 review


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George, I was just reading your review in this months AOPA PILOT magazine. I was very interested in flight planning from ATC to Garmin Pilot to the 430W. You state that when you file direct and ATC provides you with a routing, that routing is automatically uploaded to the Pilot App, then all you need to do, is to activate the plan. Am I understanding this correctly? If so this would be a great feature. Can you elaborate more on how this happens. Thanks in advance.

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George, I was just reading your review in this months AOPA PILOT magazine. I was very interested in flight planning from ATC to Garmin Pilot to the 430W. You state that when you file direct and ATC provides you with a routing, that routing is automatically uploaded to the Pilot App, then all you need to do, is to activate the plan. Am I understanding this correctly? If so this would be a great feature. Can you elaborate more on how this happens. Thanks in advance.

I wish it were that easy. For those of us who fly in the Northeast, what you file, what ATC proposes back (through ForeFlight or Garmin Pilot) and what you get are not usually the same.

I think where the real power comes with the Pilot to GTN/GNS through Flightstream is a lengthy clearance. Instead of adding and dropping things on the panel mounted unit, you simply do it on Pilot and upload it.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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Jack,

 

You read it correctly, although there are some caveats.  When you file, the proposed ATC route gets sent back to you via the pilot app in a pop up message window.  With about 20-30 IFR flights using flightstream, I've seen the proposed routing match the "Actual" clearance on all but 2 flights.  If the proposed clearance matches what clearance delivery gives you over the radio, then its as simple as hitting accept in Garmin Pilot and sending to the GTN/GNS unit.

 

With that, its not a 100% solution.  There will be times (as Marauder pointed out) that the proposed route that pops up on Garmin Pilot might not match the clearance ATC actually gives you over the radio.  So it's important to pay close attention, but in my experience, thus far, the vast majority of the time they have been the same.  This might vary by location and local ATC procedures.

 

If the proposed route isn't the same as what you get over the radio and you have to manually enter in a lengthy clearance, building the route on the iPad and then sending to the GTS/GTN is made easy with the flight stream.

 

The biggest benefit is for 430/530 users.  These older NAV/COMS make you enter in every VOR and Intersection that makes up a Victor Airway.  The easiest way to avoid this is to build the route in Garmin Pilot and then send via bluetooth.  Garmin Pilot App is smart enough to insert enroute fixes even though the GNS boxes aren't.  GTN users have it a bit easier as their boxes are smart enough to fill in the enroute waypoints.

 

Bottom line is:  

(1) If they match great - Activate and send.  

(2) If they don't - Enter the route on the iPad and send.  Either way is pretty easy. 

 

If anyone wants to see a Demo of this functionality and is planning on attending the FDK AOPA fly in next month, let me know and I'll pull my Mooney out of the hanger and demonstrate how this works.

 

Hope this helps... 

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Thanks George! I would guess that although the actual clearance differs from the proposed, it would still give a reasonable starting point that could be edited. My thinking is to add a 530w to my 430W, GDL88, flightstream 210. Add G500 down the road.

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Thanks George! I would guess that although the actual clearance differs from the proposed, it would still give a reasonable starting point that could be edited. My thinking is to add a 530w to my 430W, GDL88, flightstream 210. Add G500 down the road.

 

Today I flew a simple flight from San Jose to Livermore.  Upon arriving at the airport it seemed appropriate to file an IFR flight plan.  I popped out the iPad, opened Garmin Pilot, put in the simple flight plan in a minute, briefed the flight and filed on the iPad, all in a matter of minutes.  I got the clearance as filed, pushed it to the GTN 750 and was ready to go faster than anytime in the past.  I installed the Flight Stream 210 thinking I really wouldn't use it much with the stuff I already have, but that has proven not to be the case.  I have most of the other iPad programs, but the interface to what I have is much easier using Garmin Pilot and the Flight Stream 210.

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Flightstream is a BT device that can transfer traffic and wx from a GDL88 and provide backup AHRS  to Pilot. 

 

I think it's overkill for GTN users. Most valuable for GNS users.

 

The only benefit that I see for GTN users is transferring an as filed plan to the GTN. If you get an appreciably different clearance, as we do up here in the NE most of the time, you're going to chew your tobacco twice regardless! So might as well enter it directly into the GTN. 

 

I  personally also find a tablet to be overkill for GTN users. Especially with a GDL88 which displays traffic and wx on the GTN.

 

An argument can be made for redundancy and backup AHRS displaying an AI on pilot. That's a good thing for anybody.

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Flightstream is a BT device that can transfer traffic and wx from a GDL88 and provide backup AHRS  to Pilot. 

 

I think it's overkill for GTN users. Most valuable for GNS users.

 

The only benefit that I see for GTN users is transferring an as filed plan to the GTN. If you get an appreciably different clearance, as we do up here in the NE most of the time, you're going to chew your tobacco twice regardless! So might as well enter it directly into the GTN. 

 

I  personally also find a tablet to be overkill for GTN users. Especially with a GDL88 which displays traffic and wx on the GTN.

 

An argument can be made for redundancy and backup AHRS displaying an AI on pilot. That's a good thing for anybody.  

 

For all your backup reasons and flight plan transfer, having the Flight Stream on a GTN equipped airplane is not overkill--in my opinion.

 

Flight Stream 210 costs $999; Garmin Pilot subscription varies depending on products purchased, but for IFR yearly $149.99.  That would be the recurring cost.  Non for the unit itself.

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Flightstream is a BT device that can transfer traffic and wx from a GDL88 and provide backup AHRS  to Pilot. 

 

I think it's overkill for GTN users. Most valuable for GNS users.

 

The only benefit that I see for GTN users is transferring an as filed plan to the GTN. If you get an appreciably different clearance, as we do up here in the NE most of the time, you're going to chew your tobacco twice regardless! So might as well enter it directly into the GTN. 

 

I  personally also find a tablet to be overkill for GTN users. Especially with a GDL88 which displays traffic and wx on the GTN.

 

An argument can be made for redundancy and backup AHRS displaying an AI on pilot. That's a good thing for anybody.

 

I agree. I feel the 210 is overkill, maybe a nice to have feature. My primary source of entry of IFR flight plans for me is into the 650 and it is pretty quick to enter (airways, fixes etc). That's where I want to get it right instead of fumbling around with a portable device and transferring from there. The 210 might be of use for initial transfer if you are really rushed to do that on the ground. I may at some point get the FS210 to get the AHRS capability (I have the old GDL 39 which I need for communication to the Garmin 696). I consider the 696 much more useful as a backup and I can crossfill to the 696 with the 650. The Nexus 7 tablet is only used for approaches (geo-referenced plates with Fltplan or Avare) and for weather/traffic from the GDL88 -> GDL39 -> bluetooth to Garmin Pilot.

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I agree. I feel the 210 is overkill, maybe a nice to have feature. 

 

How can you consider it overkill when you don't have it and haven't tried it?  When you've tried it and find it not useful, then the posting may be of benefit to others considering it.  I have it, have all the other goodies from Garmin including the G500 and GTNs, and I find it a useful addition to the airplane--FWIW.

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How can you consider it overkill when you don't have it and haven't tried it? When you've tried it and find it not useful, then the posting may be of benefit to others considering it. I have it, have all the other goodies from Garmin including the G500 and GTNs, and I find it a useful addition to the airplane--FWIW.

Do you see that when you enter a flight plan in the tablet and file it only to find out when you arrive at the airport that your clearance is different and have to reenter it is too much work?

I find that double the work. I prefer to enter it once in the GTN. It's really much easier imo.

Disclosure: I'm not a fan of tablets in my cockpit. They're great for flight plannning and as an EFB reference tool.

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I have flightstream 210 with a GTN 750. I like it a lot. You can do your flight planning at home. Modify your clearance on your IPAD in the FBO, without having to start your engine or your avionics and then you transfer the filghtplan to your GTN. I also like the redundancy. I only would like to have the chance of having my Jeppview charts displayed on the Garmin Pilot... but then that my be too much to ask.

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I think the power of the FlightStream solution is for those who have the GNS where they don't have the victor airway capability and for those knuckleheads like me that get the occasional weird twist in their flight plan.

Perfect example. Here is what ATC Proposed (it looked nothing like what I filed):

1873e31ca327f141f951e4db3dc66b04.jpg

And here is what I got. The challenge with what I got was the transition between the two airways where there is no intersection. I think with the FlightStream, maybe I can enter a lot/long to define the intersection point. Will that work?

4ccd1822027cdbd2f6b2b04c8f7710ea.jpg

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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I think the power of the FlightStream solution is for those who have the GNS where they don't have the victor airway capability and for those knuckleheads like me that get the occasional weird twist in their flight

Similar route, I got what I submitted with no changes for whatever reason:

82d99b5cb0515c6a213f849fcc480c86.jpg

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Here's a technical question -

 

I have an adsb out transponder - the Trig -

I have an adsb in solution with the gdl393d.  SO I am not needing any further adsb stuff - I get it all in my ipad and I do use garmin pilot on my ipad.

 

It would be worth it to me to buy the flighstream 210 just for the interface between the ipad and my gns430.

 

BUT then as I understand it the flightstream only feeds out attitude and acts as a conduit from the gdl88 to the ipad for adsb-in and between the ipad and the 430 for flight plans.

 

So if I got a flightstream would I be able to couple bluetooth to both a flightstream and my gdl393d or would I have to give up adsb in (I am not going to also buy a gdl88 as I like my adsb out transponder).  If no - if I cannot couple to the two devices with the ipad, then the flightstream isnt enough.

 

They need a flightstream 310 that does attitude and adsb in like a gdl39 and couples to the 430 like the 210 does.  Then I would chuck my gdl393d.  Fewer boxes.

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Here's a technical question -

 

I have an adsb out transponder - the Trig -

I have an adsb in solution with the gdl393d.  SO I am not needing any further adsb stuff - I get it all in my ipad and I do use garmin pilot on my ipad.

 

It would be worth it to me to buy the flighstream 210 just for the interface between the ipad and my gns430.

 

BUT then as I understand it the flightstream only feeds out attitude and acts as a conduit from the gdl88 to the ipad for adsb-in and between the ipad and the 430 for flight plans.

 

So if I got a flightstream would I be able to couple bluetooth to both a flightstream and my gdl393d or would I have to give up adsb in (I am not going to also buy a gdl88 as I like my adsb out transponder).  If no - if I cannot couple to the two devices with the ipad, then the flightstream isnt enough.

 

They need a flightstream 310 that does attitude and adsb in like a gdl39 and couples to the 430 like the 210 does.  Then I would chuck my gdl393d.  Fewer boxes.

 

No, you can't get rid of the GDL39D if you don't have the GDL88 for ADSB-in. For those who have the GDL-88, they could get rid of the GDL39(D) provided they don't need to connect to legacy portables like the Garmin 496 and 696.

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No, you can't get rid of the GDL39D if you don't have the GDL88 for ADSB-in. For those who have the GDL-88, they could get rid of the GDL39(D) provided they don't need to connect to legacy portables like the Garmin 496 and 696.

 

But then can I use both?  Is the ipad - and the garmin pilot software on the ipad - capable of interacting with both the gdl393d AND the flightstream?

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But then can I use both?  Is the ipad - and the garmin pilot software on the ipad - capable of interacting with both the gdl393d AND the flightstream?

 

I see why you are asking this.. Don't know the answer to this. Most owners "married" to Garmin would put in the GDL88 and not keep the GDL39D when they get the FS210 :).. at least those of us who don't need to go above 18k etc.

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I see why you are asking this.. Don't know the answer to this. Most owners "married" to Garmin would put in the GDL88 and not keep the GDL39D when they get the FS210 :).. at least those of us who don't need to go above 18k etc.

 

As I said - they need to make a Flightstream 310 that includes a complete GDL393d built in (attitude AND ADSB in) together with the upload feature for my GNS430.

 

One solution that occurs to me - a second ipad mini.  Doh.  At least it is cheaper to deal with the Apple Inc megagiant than with the relatively small fry monopoly mini-megagiant Garmin.

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