Bonanza crash this evening at Mesquite TX

[DonMuncy]

About 6 this evening a Beech 35 (V-tail?) belonging to a Dallas resident on a flight from KELD (Eldorado AR) on its way to KHQZ (most likely his home drome), crashed and killed the pilot.

His route on Flightaware (tail # 555SF) shows many gyrations and airspeeds from 80 or so to 140 or so. The weather at 11:00 showed OVC at 600 ft and from what I have seen it was almost certainly about that at the time of the crash.

One can only imagine what this poor guy was going through while this was taking place.

[Marauder]

About 6 this evening a Beech 35 (V-tail?) belonging to a Dallas resident on a flight from KELD (Eldorado AR) on its way to KHQZ (most likely his home drome), crashed and killed the pilot.

His route on Flightaware (tail # 555SF) shows many gyrations and airspeeds from 80 or so to 140 or so. The weather at 11:00 showed OVC at 600 ft and from what I have seen it was almost certainly about that at the time of the crash.

One can only imagine what this poor guy was going through while this was taking place.

What was really troubling was listening to the tapes. Shot at least 5 approaches, was offered a vector to an airport with 2200' ceilings, offered a controller who was also a pilot, still had fuel on board and FlightAware track showed him flying erratic patterns. Pilots of America has the tapes and more details.

[bonal]

Checked it out on flightaware looking at the track and then the speed and altitude graph I can't imagine. It shows there was a flight plan filed and I would assume there was comm with ATC. Sadly all we can do is look in hindsight but looks like panic set in. Thoughts and prayers for the loved ones. Damn

[triple8s]

I'm not gonna say how this could never happen to me or the guy was stupid and should've done this or that but what I say is this. If any of you have friends who fly high performance aircraft lke a mooney or a Bo work on them, really pressure them to get that IFR ticket, if you have friends that have the rating but you know they don't fly often enough, offer to safety pilot with them. If you really wanna make a difference work on these folks. I have a friend who is very close to solo and just bought a mooney, and I flew left seat and let him see how it felt in flight at altitude. We both had a blast, we came back I landed and we taxied to the tie down and I'll be a SOB if the first thing he said was "I thnk after I get my PPL I'll fly it for awhile and maybe work on my IFR ticket in a couple of years". This kind of thinking is exactly what gets people killed. As pilots it is our obligation to stay proficient, encourage those with a PPL to get the IFR rating (especially if they fly a traveling machine) and set good example when flying with these guys. Make a difference. And those that don't have the IFR rating you need to bite the bullet and get after it.

[M016576]

I'm not gonna say how this could never happen to me or the guy was stupid and should've done this or that but what I say is this. If any of you have friends who fly high performance aircraft lke a mooney or a Bo work on them, really pressure them to get that IFR ticket, if you have friends that have the rating but you know they don't fly often enough, offer to safety pilot with them. If you really wanna make a difference work on these folks. I have a friend who is very close to solo and just bought a mooney, and I flew left seat and let him see how it felt in flight at altitude. We both had a blast, we came back I landed and we taxied to the tie down and I'll be a SOB if the first thing he said was "I thnk after I get my PPL I'll fly it for awhile and maybe work on my IFR ticket in a couple of years". This kind of thinking is exactly what gets people killed. As pilots it is our obligation to stay proficient, encourage those with a PPL to get the IFR rating (especially if they fly a traveling machine) and set good example when flying with these guys. Make a difference. And those that don't have the IFR rating you need to bite the bullet and get after it.

Its not the lack of an instrument qualification that kills people, it's the poor decision making to go on a marginal day.

Quote from Magnum Force ... "A man's gotta know his limits..."

[garytex]

I don't want an ifr ticket, and I don't want to go flying at night.

[Hank]

Situational awareness and proficiency are even more important when flying in IMC. Instrument ratings are not required or needed, but as a VFR pilot, I worried and watched weather a lot more, and didn't fly a few more times.

 

There is no free pass flying yourself.

 

See the other thread about Enough being Enough.

[Danb]

Mo your 100% correct..but set your limits changing into them based on how your that day by increasing those limits...agreed..

[Bob - S50]

Even if you don't get an IFR ticket, nothing says you can't try and remain IFR proficient.  Get a safety pilot to fly with you and fly under the hood just in case you find yourself trapped.  Even if you can't do it legally, if your aircraft is ILS capable, get someone to show you how to use it and practice it while VFR and VMC.

 

You won't be able to file IFR, and I hope it doesn't encourage you to fly in more marginal weather, but being able to fly the ILS to get on the ground in marginal conditions might save your life.

 

I try to fly two approaches under the hood every month.

 

If I had two pieces of advice to offer the less experienced it would be:

 

1.  Slow down.  You don't need to intercept a segment of the approach at cruise speed.  Plan to be below gear down speed before you hit the first fix.  That way if you find yourself high you can lower the gear to help you get down.  Slowing down also gives you more time to review the approach, program radios, change frequencies, etc.  Instructions from ATC will come less frequently too.

 

2.  If you are cruising along heading toward the approach and doing nothing but tracking straight and level, ask yourself if there is something I can do now that will make the approach easier later?  Load the approach?  Set up the back up navaids?  Set a Comm frequency in the standby window?  Listen to ATIS or ASOS?  Study the approach with special attention to descent gradients?

 

Just my opinion.

 

Bob

[Marauder]

Another troubling detail was the level of sophistication in this plane. With the equipment he had available (assuming it was functional), a 600' ceiling and 5 mile vis, this flight should have ended successfully.

[M016576]

Another troubling detail was the level of sophistication in this plane. With the equipment he had available (assuming it was functional), a 600' ceiling and 5 mile vis, this flight should have ended successfully.

Troubling detail, but not unexpected. Modern high performance singles like that bonanza (or my mooney!) are far better equipped to fly IFR from an avionics standpoint than the F-15's I fly at work (no GPS, mostly unusable autopilot, single ILS, Mechanical ADI/HSI). But it's not the equipment... It's the training. not just stick and rudder- but training in decision making and risk management. I could be wrong- but I don't know of a single pilot that died by choosing NOT to fly on a bad weather day. Ifr rated or not.

Edit: if your job isn't being a professional pilot, then your risk matrix and go/no go criteria should probably reflect that, and float quite a bit based on recent experience and proficiency. Regardless of how advanced your instruments are. JMHO.

[Hector]

In my youth I made some bad decisions, got into IMC without an instrument rating, and I'm alive only by the grace of God. Even though I've been instrument rated for 20 years and keep current, I'm also older, wiser, and far more conservative about my flying. Folks, shit happens and you can find yourself in IMC conditions despite all the best intentions. I understand if you don't want or need an instrument ticket, but please find an instructor and do enough hood work to feel comfortable so you can save your ass if required. Who knows, you might find that you enjoy the challenge.

[M016576]

In my youth I made some bad decisions, got into IMC without an instrument rating, and I'm alive only by the grace of God. Even though I've been instrument rated for 20 years and keep current, I'm also older, wiser, and far more conservative about my flying. Folks, shit happens and you can find yourself in IMC conditions despite all the best intentions. I understand if you don't want or need an instrument ticket, but please find an instructor and do enough hood work to feel comfortable so you can save your ass if required. Who knows, you might find that you enjoy the challenge.

I agree with this 100%: you need to know your systems and how to use them.

[chrisk]

I don't know what happened here, but it looks like he was on an IFR flight plan.  I will use this as an excuse to visit my plane and fly some approaches with an instructor over the holidays.

[Parker_Woodruff]

A Google search shows quite a few screens in that airplane. Lots of maps and slick, digital avionics are no replacement for good airmanship and IFR proficiency.

[flyboy0681]

If the pilot was the registered owner of the aircraft, he had an instrument rating and commercial ticket.

[bonal]

I listened to the recording on ATClive and you could hear where there were some problems developing but then there were no calls for quite some time so I don't know if the recording was edited but if not based on the flight aware track there should have been many calls. I listen not for morbid curiosity but to try to gain knowledge. knowing the outcome you just want to reach back and help this guy. We will never know what was going on in the cockpit and more importantly in his head. Just makes me sad

[Ron McBride]

I have been flying for over 40 years now.  I have had an instrument ticket for 5 or 6 years.  I have shot 1 actual approach since getting the ticket.   I am not current, I try to get current if I am making a long trip, or possible night approach,   VFR only...  I can be current, and still not be comfortable.  (practice, practice)    I am safer flying and happier flying VFR only.   But I am also safer if I get caught by unexpected weather, then I can divert safer. 

 

I would rather spend many nights in a Hotel, than be dangerous to myself and many others.

 

Ron

[piperpainter]

What frequency was he on? I spent all of last night trying to find it...

Found it

[scottfromiowa]

I have heard many times and I do not disagree-"Get your IFR ticket, it will make you a better pilot". Was this guy IFR certified? Is a better pilot a safer pilot? Should be. Could be. Was he? I respect the heck out of weather. No Go is easy decision for a pleasure pilot like me. I simply would not fly to minimums in a single engine plane...even if well equipped. I know it is done all the time. Not by me. Even if I could. Be careful up there.

[John Pleisse]

I spend more time fu%$king up, blowing though intersections and losing situational awarness while I am screwing around with GPS's and PFD-MFD's. Otherwise, I rarely screw up. Standard King six pack is where I am returning. As a 35 series Bonanza owner, I can tell you they can slip away from you quicker than a Mooney. God Bless.

[Marauder]

Troubling detail, but not unexpected. Modern high performance singles like that bonanza (or my mooney!) are far better equipped to fly IFR from an avionics standpoint than the F-15's I fly at work (no GPS, mostly unusable autopilot, single ILS, Mechanical ADI/HSI). But it's not the equipment... It's the training. not just stick and rudder- but training in decision making and risk management. I could be wrong- but I don't know of a single pilot that died by choosing NOT to fly on a bad weather day. Ifr rated or not.

Edit: if your job isn't being a professional pilot, then your risk matrix and go/no go criteria should probably reflect that, and float quite a bit based on recent experience and proficiency. Regardless of how advanced your instruments are. JMHO.

You're not going to get an argument from me about training. I have been instrument rated since 1993 and you will find my logs full of IPCs whether I needed them or not. In fact for the past 4 years, I have opted for IPCs every 6 months regardless of my flight currency.

When I went glass two years ago, it took me a while with and without an instructor to start flying from the front seat again. And that was in a plane I had owned for 21 years! Training and risk management are the most important factors that can prevent you from getting into this kind of situation, but understanding the tools you have at your disposal are equally as important to get you out. Why install them if you don't use them?

The point of my last post was to understand with the equipment he had, why wasn't it used? Based on the flight paths and ATC tape, it looks like he was hand flying it. If you have hand flown 4 approaches, why not fly it coupled? The LPV RWY35 at KHQZ can be flown to 250', well below the reported 600' ceilings. I have flown dozens of LPV approaches both coupled and by hand. Unless he had a mechanical issue, using the coupled autopilot should have allowed him to monitor the approach. Something prevented him from being in a position to land on those multiple approaches.

[flyboy0681]

 Unless he had a mechanical issue, using the coupled autopilot should have allowed him to monitor the approach. Something prevented him from being in a position to land on those multiple approaches.

 

For some reason this is a common thread with a lot of incidents. Many times the aircraft is equipped with a very capable autopilot, yet the pilot elects to fly by hand. JFK Jr. immediately comes to mind.

[Hank]

Sometimes equipment doesn't work right (or at all), but mostly it's the pilot who doesn't fully understand how to use it. I don't know everything that my 430W is capable of, but I can fly an ILS with or without it.

Why would anyone try 6 approaches and not divert somewhere else after the second miss???

[John Pleisse]

What frequency was he on? I spent all of last night trying to find it...

Found it

 

We recently had an accident here in the DC area. I went to LiveATC.com to listen and the deceased pilot's transmissions were removed within two hours, however, you could still hear all other responses on the frequency. Was it still there?