Partners dilemma. Advice on moving forward

[craftyboy]

Hi All,  I was in a 4way partnership in a 1980 20J for the past 10 years.  It was great.  I flew all over the country and have memories I will cherish forever.  Earlier this year one of the partners had the unfortunate encounter with a propstrike.  We ended up collecting the insurance and selling the hull with my expectation to buy a new plane.  

 

Unfortunately for me, most of the partners aren't motivated to continue with the partnership. I cant wait month after month trying to get them to open their wallets for a replacement plane. Loosing the plane is like taking candy from a baby.  We continue to do nothing except own an empty hanger. So here is my question:

 

Is it realistic for me to shop and purchase a nice 1980s 201, Put 200 hrs on it and sell it at not much of a loss? I am going to try to get the partners on board with buying in to it.  Once they see it in the hanger they may be tempted.  But I need a way out if after a year or two I am still solo.  I'm a cash buyer so if a good deal comes up, I could swoop in quick.

 

Any advise or guidance is appreciated.  Ed from CT

[rbridges]

I guess it depends on what kind of risk taker you are.  I wouldn't think you'd lose a ton on a J model after a few years, but you don't know what the market will be like at that time.  Also, you don't know how long you will need to sell it at a "fair" market price.  Personally, I wouldn't do it until I got a few guaranteed partners.

[scottfromiowa]

It depends. Good luck with that...

Or they may not.

Sell for a loss. That is a way out after a year or two...or not depending on a lot.

My advice would be to find someone on your field that is flying a 201 and see if you can buy in...

I would NOT buy a plane thinking I would make money on sale in a couple years... or entice former partners back in that won't pony-up first....

Good luck.

[KSMooniac]

Tough call... may be possible, but you'd have to buy the right plane... something with very low engine time, modern panel, and a recent history of regular use and maintenance.  If you took a plane from 200 SMOH to 400 SMOH, not a big deal.  Taking one from 1600 SMOH to 1800 SMOH is a much bigger deal.  2 years from now the ADS-B mandate will be looming larger, and if the plane still needs upgrades, it would be harder to sell for a higher price.  Of course my ideas as "requirements" mean it is going to be a much higher purchase price, so you might not be able to pull that off solo.

 

If I were in your shoes, I'd try to own a nice E or F at 50-60% the price of a J by myself.  Or try to find new partners.

[philipneeper]

I feel you should look into a plane you can afford by yourself. 100% alone, then have partners later down the line or right away. this way you will not struggle at all either direction. 

[rbuck]

I agree with Philip. (Yep, it is interesting to note that both of us are C pilots.) True, it's not a 201, but I love my C. I admit, I don't really need the backseats for more than luggage, and I've flown it all across the country, too. Yeah, it's a little bit slower, but if money is the issue (like it was for me), a nice C isn't a bad option. 

[philipneeper]

I agree with Philip. (Yep, it is interesting to note that both of us are C pilots.) True, it's not a 201, but I love my C. I admit, I don't really need the backseats for more than luggage, and I've flown it all across the country, too. Yeah, it's a little bit slower, but if money is the issue (like it was for me), a nice C isn't a bad option. 

+1 for the C model !

[carusoam]

Wishful thinking is not a good flight plan.

I hope I have enough gas in the tank.

I wish the weather would hold out.

I hope a good partner comes along?

Really?

Like everything else in life, buy what you can afford... No more, no less.

Buying too much can become hazardous to your wallet.

+1 on the C... (From my experience)

Or did you mean something else?

Best regards,

-a-

[FoxMike]

You might try to find one partner.  A two way partnership costs 1/2 of owning yourself.  Airplane prices especially Mooney may move up some in the next couple of years but no guarantees.  The older models are sure possible if they meet your needs.  Acquisition costs are lower but upkeep may be somewhat higher.  It looks like ADS-B is going to cost $4K or so for a UAT system so it won't break the bank but I doubt it will be the last mandated equipment you need to buy.  

 

You might put the word out you are looking for a partnership and find someone who would sell you his interest in another plane.  I bet you have already thought of all this.  Many years ago I owned a 1/4 in an E model.  I was the only instrumented pilot in the group and none of my partners wanted to buy a transponder.  I decided to buy a E model myself and since then have owned all of my airplanes myself ( except for a Baron I owned for a few months).  Managing the costs is rough unless you have a business need for the plane but it can be done.  Good Luck! 

[nels]

Was that your mooney that was in trade a plane a couple months ago?

[craftyboy]

Was that your mooney that was in trade a plane a couple months ago?

 yes.  we sold it for 20k  N9656G.

 

Boy do I miss it.

[craftyboy]

+1 for the C model !

I'm 6'4" and feel comfortable in the J.  I could fly it all day.   Is there less pilot legroom in the C?

[aviatoreb]

I'm also 6'4''.  My friend had a C - I was comfortable.  I think it was about the same as a J/K in the front.

[DanM20C]

I'm 6'4" and feel comfortable in the J.  I could fly it all day.   Is there less pilot legroom in the C?

The front seat leg room is the same in all Mooneys. I'm 6'3" and fit great in my c. I'm looking at upgrading to a bigger plane overal and I find my c more comfortable than the bonanzas I have tried on.

[Andy95W]

I agree with Philip. (Yep, it is interesting to note that both of us are C pilots.) True, it's not a 201, but I love my C. I admit, I don't really need the backseats for more than luggage, and I've flown it all across the country, too. Yeah, it's a little bit slower, but if money is the issue (like it was for me), a nice C isn't a bad option.

Another +1 for the C!

[Hank]

C's are great planes. Front seat room is the same at least up to the long body models, and maybe there, too. Mostly the additional length is back seat legroom, baggage area, and longer noses for the 6-cylinder engines (but boy, do they use more fuel!).

[nels]

My inner gear doors are bent and cracked and not installed . What is required to replace them with non aluminum ?

Paul '77J KIKV

yes. we sold it for 20k N9656G.

Boy do I miss it.

I had called on the plane and had a figure of 30 to 35 in my head but was concerned about the TTAF and the crank condition. Was the crank shaft ok? I even had a prop lined up.in case. I think it ended up in Ohio and is repaired and is on the market again ?

[craftyboy]

My Partner handled the sale.  I believe the crank was fine. The plane did need the required work post propstrike (non engine stoppage).  Problem was that the engine was run out. Airframe time was over 6000.  I think it would have cost us 40k to get it back in good shape with new engine.

We were going to buy an Ovation as a group (4way).  After the sale of this plane, 2 partners lost interest.  So now Its me and maybe one other looking for a nice 20j,  If I go solo, maybe a C, but really want another 20J because that what I'm used to flying for the past 15 years.  Ed

[dcastor]

Be careful... One thing I learned is the first year of ownership will be the most expensive. I think it's a side effect of getting annuals done by a set of fresh eyes. The new mechanic sees things the previous one missed. You might be able to sell for close to what you paid for it, but that's after you have paid a fair bit in maintenance. My first annual hit my wallet for 10% of my purchase price. That stings.

Dave

[Cris]

Years ago I was in a similar position with an E model and partners. After the plane was sold I decided I would acquire what I wanted which was a J and then look for a partner. It worked out just fine and I got the plane that I wanted and a new partner. At the time I justified the expense as a golf club membership on an annual basis. As it turned out the plane cost nothing as it was a time of increasing values on used aircraft but I expected and planed for a loss.

[mooniac15u]

The front seat leg room is the same in all Mooneys. I'm 6'3" and fit great in my c. I'm looking at upgrading to a bigger plane overal and I find my c more comfortable than the bonanzas I have tried on.

 

There is more front seat legroom in the J.  In my D I didn't even have an inch to spare for my legs with the seat all the way back.  In my J I can comfortably fly it one notch up from the back.  I'm 6'5".

[JohnL]

My experience is that prospective partners are much more comfortable when you have a stable situation that they can evaluate. They want to see the airplane, the avionics, the engine time and when the next annual is due. They want to see the bills for the hanger and insurance and how much time everyone is actually flying.   It's a lot easier for them to commit when all this is clear.

 

That said, you are on your own getting to that point. You can buy exactly the airplane you want, which is exciting, but you have to pay for all the overhead on your own until you attract your partners. That is as expensive as buying your own airplane outright. I agree with the above post that the first year of ownership is more expensive.

 

Partnerships can be very rewarding and in my case I think it's worth the overhead to get one started.  However, it will likely be an investment of time and money well beyond just joining an existing partnership.

[urbanti]

I'm with KSMooniac on this.

There are some nice F's out there that would give you a similar airframe to a J, at a lower buy-in cost.

That way if the partnership doesn't materialize as quickly as you hope, your' level of commitment is less and maybe you can soldier on as a sole owner.

best

Tim

[GeorgePerry]

I feel you should look into a plane you can afford by yourself. 100% alone, then have partners later down the line or right away. this way you will not struggle at all either direction. 

 

Yep…Once the plane is "on the ramp" and the costs are known, it's much easier to attract partners.  

[Vance Harral]

Yep…Once the plane is "on the ramp" and the costs are known, it's much easier to attract partners.  

 

Maybe.  But I advise people to be cautious about buying into a partnership where the person offering the deal is currently the sole owner, even for a little while.  Not that they don't mean well, but sometimes it's difficult for a sole owner to accept truly equal ownership of new partners, especially when it comes to all the little things: fueling policy, whether the belly gets wiped down after every flight, if the sun shade gets put up, is the strobe/beacon switch left on or off, etc.  Emotionally, some folks think of it as still being "their" airplane, which they're just letting the other guy(s) use, as opposed to a genuinely shared asset.

 

Not really suggesting the OP shouldn't proceed with buying an airplane, but just some food for thought about how it's treated while finding new (or old) partners.