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M20F 201 Conversion Value

M20F Conversion

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#21 Ragsf15e

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 06:45 PM

I have a question that plays right into this discussion between buying the really nice F or the middle of the road J... is it harder to get parts for the F because it's likely 10-15 years older or do the parts/maintenance costs work out about the same?



#22 rbridges

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 07:09 PM

I have a question that plays right into this discussion between buying the really nice F or the middle of the road J... is it harder to get parts for the F because it's likely 10-15 years older or do the parts/maintenance costs work out about the same?

 

 

maintenance costs should be similar.  I have J type switches in my plane and had to buy them from another mooneyspace member.  So yeah, it can be equally frustrating for either model.  With the factory opening back up, this may change.



#23 bluehighwayflyer

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 07:12 PM

I think that parts costs/availability are similar between the two but that Js probably cost slightly more to maintain than do Fs if for no reason other than that they are generally more complex airplanes.  If you don't have a gear actuator, for instance, it can't require overhaul, and if you don't have lower gear doors, they can't crack or get damaged and require replacement.  If you don't have a vernier mixture control it will be cheaper to fix when it breaks.  Etc., etc., etc.  You get the idea.  There is a lot more to a J over an F than a cowling and a windshield.  You truly do get what you pay for.  The question is, what do you want?  If you want a J the best bet is just to go ahead and buy one.  That having been said, I would buy the really nice F over a dog J any day.  A dog is not a good deal at any price.   

 

Jim


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#24 Marauder

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 07:35 PM

I have a question that plays right into this discussion between buying the really nice F or the middle of the road J... is it harder to get parts for the F because it's likely 10-15 years older or do the parts/maintenance costs work out about the same?


Nope...


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#25 KSMooniac

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 07:47 PM

i concur... I don't think there is anything on the F that would be more difficult to get than a J, and there are fewer things to fix on an F so that is a bit of an advantage.

 

For the record, I was originally looking for a modified F (like the one under discussion) and I wanted modern layout panel, GPS, autopilot, speed mods.  There weren't a lot out there, and I got lucky with a local '77 J becoming available that had been updated very, very much.  I stretched my budget (er, bigger loan!) to get it.  If I had to choose between this F and the J I bought at ~20k more, I'm not sure I would choose the J, frankly.  (this was in 2007)


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#26 BigTex

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 07:52 PM

... And you gotta love that Johnson Bar!
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Gary Franks
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#27 Marauder

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 09:04 PM

i concur... I don't think there is anything on the F that would be more difficult to get than a J, and there are fewer things to fix on an F so that is a bit of an advantage.

For the record, I was originally looking for a modified F (like the one under discussion) and I wanted modern layout panel, GPS, autopilot, speed mods. There weren't a lot out there, and I got lucky with a local '77 J becoming available that had been updated very, very much. I stretched my budget (er, bigger loan!) to get it. If I had to choose between this F and the J I bought at ~20k more, I'm not sure I would choose the J, frankly. (this was in 2007)


The late model Fs, if you can find them have a 201 panel and many have been updated with speed mods. Here is the panel in my F:

Attached File  ImageUploadedByTapatalk1395349077.551234.jpg   227.27KB   15 downloads




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#28 mike_elliott

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 09:04 PM

I have a question that plays right into this discussion between buying the really nice F or the middle of the road J... is it harder to get parts for the F because it's likely 10-15 years older or do the parts/maintenance costs work out about the same?

Same airframe for all intents. J's started in 77, F's stopped in 76. If you are looking at a 10-15 year newer J, then you are getting into a large price delta, all else equal. The 84's began the smooth belly, wingtips, and a few other niceties that bump up the price some. Autopilots were rare in F's and durn near standard in later J's



#29 mike_elliott

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 09:07 PM

The late model Fs, if you can find them have a 201 panel and many have been updated with speed mods. Here is the panel in my F:

attachicon.gifImageUploadedByTapatalk1395349077.551234.jpg




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and my F's

TAS 145, 8.4GPH

 

Panel RT

 

Panel, LT

 


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#30 fantom

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 09:23 PM

As you can see, Chris and Mike both have beautiful F's that would sell for more than most early J's, and rightly so.


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#31 KSMooniac

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 09:24 PM

Good point about the 75-76 model F's...their panels are virtually identical to my '77 J with the standard layouts and throttle quadrant.  

Maruader's and Mike's F models are very well-kept, and the type of plane you only find on the market during an estate sale.  :)  For those that think an F at $80k is way too high, take a solid/good $40-50k F and try to put the equipment above in it and see where you end up...and an $80k F that is super-updated is arguably a better choice than an $80k J that has vintage equipment and an old autopilot, and plaid seats.


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#32 fantom

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 10:09 PM

Scott, I fear we're giving them both:

 

main.png

 

;)


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#33 Marauder

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 11:22 PM

What makes you say that?

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#34 flyingvee201

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 11:30 PM

Only had my F for 9 months now. She is not perfect, the paint had to be buffed twice but it did get a good shine. Its chipped here and there, but I like the mods the previous owners have done. Love the Johnson bar and manual flaps and new "B" type prop. Also has autopilot with altitude hold. Needs a WAAS GPS. Maybe Santa will get me a Garmin 430w.

IMG954933
IMG 20140308 125135 482
Mooney panel2
above view of tail
fuselage


#35 Cruiser

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 11:35 PM

Dark red is the hardest color to maintain. How did you do it? To bring back the shine?


aka TomK
A plane is safe in a hangar but that is not what a plane is for.

#36 carusoam

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 12:23 AM

That's a recognizable upgrade package...

With the digital LCD engine instruments.

Best regards,

-a-

#37 flyingvee201

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 12:50 AM

Dark red is the hardest color to maintain. How did you do it? To bring back the shine?

6.5 inch Lake county orange pad dimpled with Maguire's deep cut compound

6.5 inch Lake county white pad dimpled with Maguires Ultimate polishing compound.

6.5 inch Lake county blue pad dimpled with Maguires Ultimate wax.

 

Use a Porter Cable Random orbiting polisher to run the pads.

Did a 2 foot square section at a time.  All compound on the whole plane then the polish then the wax.

Some sections needed a second or third pass with the deep cut compound.

Took 5 days at 8 to 10 hours each day. (I was on vacation when I did it)

Hardest part was trying to keep the pads clean.

they got caked with the oxidized paint. Had to stop and wash them (warm water and some Dawn in a bucket)

I tried cheap Walmart smooth pads but they latest maybe 10 minutes.

The Lake county ones are great and I still have them ready to use again.

 

oh yeah....MY ACHING BACK and SHOULDERS!!  LOL


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#38 DaV8or

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 03:25 PM

Same airframe for all intents. J's started in 77, F's stopped in 76.

 

Just a little nit pick. Actually the F was produced in 1977 as well. In that year, the F and the J were sold side by side. '77 was the last year for Fs.

 

One other thing to consider in the F vs. J debate, early Fs, '66-'67 have the "twisted" wing. Some claim this slows the plane down by a knot or two. I personally doubt anybody can tell. What it does do though, is keep you from upgrading to the 231 style wing tips if those are important to you. '68 and later Fs have the normal M20 wing, just like the J.


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#39 DaV8or

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 03:39 PM

One other advantage I just thought of for the F is the size of the vintage panel. Some prefer the J panel because it has acres of real estate to put gadgets and gizmos in, but the down side is reduced visibility over the glare shield. I prefer the visibility to the gadgets and in this modern age where radios and displays are becoming sort of, all in one, less and less space is needed on the panel. Next time you're at a Mooney fly in, sit in a vintage plane and then sit in a J and you'll see what I'm talking about. Just because the panel is small, doesn't mean you can't get all the stuff in there you want. Here's my "vintage" panel-

 

 

Attached Files


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#40 BigTex

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 04:07 PM

One other advantage I just thought of for the F is the size of the vintage panel. Some prefer the J panel because it has acres of real estate to put gadgets and gizmos in, but the down side is reduced visibility over the glare shield. I prefer the visibility to the gadgets and in this modern age where radios and displays are becoming sort of, all in one, less and less space is needed on the panel. Next time you're at a Mooney fly in, sit in a vintage plane and then sit in a J and you'll see what I'm talking about. Just because the panel is small, doesn't mean you can't get all the stuff in there you want. Here's my "vintage" panel-


Love your panel! One question... Did you have any pushback on installing your primary engine instruments so far to the right? I talked to my avionics shop about replacing my cluster there and he said it was too far away. I believe he said it could not be within 21" of the pilot.
Gary Franks
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