MReitz

M20F 201 Conversion Value

39 posts in this topic

I have a question that plays right into this discussion between buying the really nice F or the middle of the road J... is it harder to get parts for the F because it's likely 10-15 years older or do the parts/maintenance costs work out about the same?

Same airframe for all intents. J's started in 77, F's stopped in 76. If you are looking at a 10-15 year newer J, then you are getting into a large price delta, all else equal. The 84's began the smooth belly, wingtips, and a few other niceties that bump up the price some. Autopilots were rare in F's and durn near standard in later J's

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The late model Fs, if you can find them have a 201 panel and many have been updated with speed mods. Here is the panel in my F:

attachicon.gifImageUploadedByTapatalk1395349077.551234.jpg

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and my F's

Marauder and flyingvee201 like this

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As you can see, Chris and Mike both have beautiful F's that would sell for more than most early J's, and rightly so.

mike_elliott and Marauder like this

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Good point about the 75-76 model F's...their panels are virtually identical to my '77 J with the standard layouts and throttle quadrant.  

Maruader's and Mike's F models are very well-kept, and the type of plane you only find on the market during an estate sale.  :)  For those that think an F at $80k is way too high, take a solid/good $40-50k F and try to put the equipment above in it and see where you end up...and an $80k F that is super-updated is arguably a better choice than an $80k J that has vintage equipment and an old autopilot, and plaid seats.

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Only had my F for 9 months now. She is not perfect, the paint had to be buffed twice but it did get a good shine. Its chipped here and there, but I like the mods the previous owners have done. Love the Johnson bar and manual flaps and new "B" type prop. Also has autopilot with altitude hold. Needs a WAAS GPS. Maybe Santa will get me a Garmin 430w.

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Dark red is the hardest color to maintain. How did you do it? To bring back the shine?

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That's a recognizable upgrade package...

With the digital LCD engine instruments.

Best regards,

-a-

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Dark red is the hardest color to maintain. How did you do it? To bring back the shine?

6.5 inch Lake county orange pad dimpled with Maguire's deep cut compound

6.5 inch Lake county white pad dimpled with Maguires Ultimate polishing compound.

6.5 inch Lake county blue pad dimpled with Maguires Ultimate wax.

 

Use a Porter Cable Random orbiting polisher to run the pads.

Did a 2 foot square section at a time.  All compound on the whole plane then the polish then the wax.

Some sections needed a second or third pass with the deep cut compound.

Took 5 days at 8 to 10 hours each day. (I was on vacation when I did it)

Hardest part was trying to keep the pads clean.

they got caked with the oxidized paint. Had to stop and wash them (warm water and some Dawn in a bucket)

I tried cheap Walmart smooth pads but they latest maybe 10 minutes.

The Lake county ones are great and I still have them ready to use again.

 

oh yeah....MY ACHING BACK and SHOULDERS!!  LOL

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Same airframe for all intents. J's started in 77, F's stopped in 76.

 

Just a little nit pick. Actually the F was produced in 1977 as well. In that year, the F and the J were sold side by side. '77 was the last year for Fs.

 

One other thing to consider in the F vs. J debate, early Fs, '66-'67 have the "twisted" wing. Some claim this slows the plane down by a knot or two. I personally doubt anybody can tell. What it does do though, is keep you from upgrading to the 231 style wing tips if those are important to you. '68 and later Fs have the normal M20 wing, just like the J.

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One other advantage I just thought of for the F is the size of the vintage panel. Some prefer the J panel because it has acres of real estate to put gadgets and gizmos in, but the down side is reduced visibility over the glare shield. I prefer the visibility to the gadgets and in this modern age where radios and displays are becoming sort of, all in one, less and less space is needed on the panel. Next time you're at a Mooney fly in, sit in a vintage plane and then sit in a J and you'll see what I'm talking about. Just because the panel is small, doesn't mean you can't get all the stuff in there you want. Here's my "vintage" panel-

 

 

post-7392-0-36756600-1395416346_thumb.jp

post-7392-0-42744400-1395416365_thumb.jp

KSMooniac, BigTex and mike_elliott like this

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One other advantage I just thought of for the F is the size of the vintage panel. Some prefer the J panel because it has acres of real estate to put gadgets and gizmos in, but the down side is reduced visibility over the glare shield. I prefer the visibility to the gadgets and in this modern age where radios and displays are becoming sort of, all in one, less and less space is needed on the panel. Next time you're at a Mooney fly in, sit in a vintage plane and then sit in a J and you'll see what I'm talking about. Just because the panel is small, doesn't mean you can't get all the stuff in there you want. Here's my "vintage" panel-

Love your panel! One question... Did you have any pushback on installing your primary engine instruments so far to the right? I talked to my avionics shop about replacing my cluster there and he said it was too far away. I believe he said it could not be within 21" of the pilot.

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I don't believe there are any regs related to engine instrumentation placement.  I only recall seeing such restrictions for GPS installation related to the need for a separate annunciator panel.  Note that the factory put the RPM, MAP, Fuel Pressure way over on the right in the J model.

 

Having said that, I really really think it is important to have them on the pilot side, and I'm working on shoe-horning an EDM-900 on the lower right side of the pilot panel in my plane.  I look at the engine monitor very frequently, and don't want it "over there".  I'll concede it is very difficult to install one on the left side in a pre-J panel, unless there is an Aspen/G500 to consolidate instruments.

 

I think I said it long ago, but I LOVE Dave's panel.  Very well designed and executed, especially for a vintage one.  It's got all that is truly needed for safe and efficient modern IFR use without going crazy.

mike_elliott and fantom like this

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