BoiseMooney

Thanks all. There was a crack in the case about a year-ish before I purchased. Case was reconditioned which led to the top and bottom work. Joey checked it out for me as I was concerned, but everything looked good to him.

Good Afternoon, After 150 wonderful hours, I’m putting my ’77 M20J on the market since I am in the process of buying a Baron. N201PN is the first airplane I have owned and I looked high and low for her before I bought her; have been really happy with the airplane. Since purchase about 16 months ago I tackled a couple of care and feeding items that get some attention on here, including a strip/reseal of the tanks, an upgraded 3000 series Bendix Dual Mag and refurb of the electric trim motor. The engine is young, with great compressions, and the airframe is also pretty low time. Really the only upcoming item will be the prop, which is at 1660 SPOH, but no trouble with it to date. Prebuy+Annual completed by Joey Cole. 2016 Annual and fuel tanks done by Greg at Advanced Aircraft in Portland, OR. Feel free to contact me directly via email with questions, but I’ll try to answer questions here as well cwburnett at gmail.com. Details: 1977 M20J 24-0302 N201PN 2730 TT 650 SMOH 1010 Useful Load No known damage history Logs since manufacture Fuel Tanks Stripped and Sealed Feb 2016 by Advanced Aircraft Factory Overhauled Bendix 3000 Dual Mag installed Apr 2016 Reconditioned case, cyls honed, new bearings, valves, hoses, gaskets and seals in 2013 (300 hrs ago) Feb 2015 Annual, compressions: 78/80. 79/80, 78/80, 77/80 Feb 2016 Annual, compressions: 78/80, 78/80, 78/80, 77/80 Electric Trim - Servo refurbished by Executive Autopilots Feb 2016 Brakes - New Discs and Linings Feb 2016 LASAR Speed Mod Smooth Belly Panel installed 1988, belly antennas moved inside panel. McCauley 2-blade, 1660 SPOH, dressed and painted 2014 Corrosion X application at time of purchase by Joey Cole as a preventative measure Garmin GNS-430W (current Americas Database covers Canada, Central and South America in addition to 50 States) King KX155 STEC-30 with Alt Hold installed in 2008 (Alt hold/AP Disc on yoke) GTX-320A Transponder GMA-340 Audio Panel w/Music and Phone inputs Dual Glidescopes 406 ELT New Davtron M800 digital clock/timer Second 12v Power Adapter installed on co-pilot side for USB power/charging Clean and updated beige leather seats Leather wrapped yokes M20-208-01 Sound Proofing Kit installed with resealed windows Inertial reel shoulder harnesses installed front seats Annual due Feb 2017 IFR due Feb 2017 Controller Posting: http://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/1424941/1977-mooney-m20j-201 Asking $90,000

So, just wanted to give everyone an update. I doubt any of you will be surprised to hear that the patch job on the leaky left tank was unsuccessful. I have no doubt Joey Cole did what he could – he finished the job on Wednesday, the previous owner flew the plane back to CHS on Thursday and I closed on the sale with Joey’s seal of approval and a fresh annual. Friday, I did some local flying with the instructor and at the end of a couple hours of transition work, we topped the tanks off for our Saturday departure towards BOI. Saturday morning we arrived at the aircraft to a STRONG fuel smell in the cockpit and discovered the floor in the back seat was damp with avgas. UGH! Needless to say, we didn’t even start up. It seems most of the GA world is shut down over the weekend, so we were dead in the water. We did defuel some from the left tank, so it was down about 8 gallons from full. Today, I checked in on the plane after sitting for 24 hours and the dampness is gone and strong smell as dissipated – it is not just a latent odor not terribly different from what I’m used to in other GA aircraft. Joey had indicated the leak was in the outer fuel bay and was most pronounced with full tanks, so this seems consistent with the symptoms this weekend. Unfortunately, due to my schedule, I have to fly home today and will regroup tomorrow with Joey and the local maintenance shop at CHS. The FBO will tow the plane over to the maint shop and we’ll go from there. There you have it! My first weekend of airplane ownership; I expect this is just the beginning.

Reviving this thread because I'm interested in adding both traffic and weather. M20J currently has a 430W and a GTX-320a transponder. My general plan has been to use a GDL-39 3D with Garmin Pilot app for in weather and traffic. For out, I'm debating between a GDL-88 with the existing transponder versus just upgrading the transponder to a GTX-330ES. It looks like the GTX-330ES route will be maybe $1k less expensive installed than the GDL-88. I've also recently started considering the KT-74 as an even less expensive alternative for the out solution. All three will give me out, thus giving me full traffic when in range of ground stations via the GDL-39 3D. The question is, am I right in my pros/cons list: GDL-88 - will provide me with the most data on the 430W, and any future panel upgrades (GTN for sure, G500 for sure, what about Aspen Pro PFD?) So this option is most expensive, but will give me the most in-panel data both on my 430W as well as future upgrades. GTX-330ES - will provide me with just traffic on the 430W and any future panel upgrades, and I'll always need the GDL-39 and tablet for weather + traffic combined. KT-74 - currently will provide no panel traffic or weather of any sort and I'll be strictly reliant on the GDL-39 and tablet for all ADS-B IN features. Did I get anything wrong there? I was originally thinking the GDL-88 would be the most "future proof," but now I'm thinking that if I go with an Aspen, I'd end up needing their ADS-B solution anyhow, so maybe there's no benefit. Unless someone's actually managed to use a GDL-88 with an Aspen. Now I'm thinking a KT-74 might be the smart route to go and then, someday, if I decide to go with an Aspen I can just also add their ADS-B transceiver, put in my old transponder and sell the KT-74. I like the idea of traffic/weather on the 430W, but I'm not sure it's worth the cost if I have the tablet with all the data already. Hmmm....

I posted over in the Modern Mooney forum about the fuel leak, so the flight is delayed until after I figure out what to do. For the interested: http://mooneyspace.com/topic/14341-bladders-or-patchstripreseal-sorry-another-thread-on-this-need-advice/

Correct, bladders have to be done on both tanks according to Joey and O&N.

No idea how long I'll keep the plane. It's my first. I might have it for 30 years or I might decide I want six seats in 3 years. I had forgotten Option D, so I edited to add that.

At the risk of committing a faux pas by starting another thread on this topic, I’m looking for advice – what would you do – on resolving a pretty bad fuel leak in the M20J I’m buying. PPI is finished and was done by Joey Cole everything is great except for the tank. I was made aware of a weep by the owner, but this is worse than originally anticipated (SURPRISE!). I’ve searched and read a bunch of threads debating the pros/cons of bladders vs strip/reseal, but I’m interested in thoughts from the brain trust on my situation. I’m not looking for advice on how to negotiate the financial aspect with the seller – just the best/most practical solution and we’ll work out the finances. The right tank has been completely filled and is without leaks. The left tank appears to be leaking mostly from the outboard fuel bay, which is out of compliance with SB M20-230 as fuel isn’t properly flowing from that bay into the others. The leak is so bad that fuel is pooling all the way down in the fuselage under the cabin. Option A – Patch – Joey can attempt to patch the leak ‘enough’ to make it airworthy and resolve the flow between the fuel bays, thus resolving the SB and possibly solving the leak problems. This is a short-term fix, and might buy me a couple years – or it might just get me across the country to do a reseal. Option B – Patch + Reseal – I can do Option A and take the plane straight to Advanced Aircraft in Portland where they’ll do a complete strip/reseal for about $4k per tank and have them just do the left tank. They provide a 5 year warranty (same as bladders, though bladders seem to last much longer). Option C – Bladders – I can order the O&N Bladders (I’d want the 64 gallon to retain the same capacity) and have Joey install them, which saves having the patch before flying, probably eliminates any future fuel problems, but costs 40 lbs useful load and about $13,000 ($8k for the bladders and $5k for install). (edited to add) Option D – Single Tank Ferry – Joey has also suggested that I could fly the aircraft back with 10 gallons in the left tank (just enough for emergency) without it leaking and take it directly to be stripped/resealed. Obviously this will require more fuel stops and some awkward imbalanced flying. Originally, when I thought it was a weep, my plan was to have the reseal done on the weeping tank for $4k and I was prepared for that cost as part of the acquisition. Now that it could be $5k + future problems, it is starting to make some sense to consider just having Joey do the bladders and put that planned money towards that project. The last consideration is time. Bladders will be 3 weeks. The strip/reseal will be 3 weeks, or maybe 4 weeks for both wings. If he patches, that’s a week, plus the 3 or 4 weeks after that for the strip/reseal. There’s a certain elegance of having Joey do the bladders and then pick up a near-perfect airplane that doesn’t need any immediate work. OTOH, the delta of $8k is a big downside for me. Sorry for the epic novel. What would you choose?

Try flightmemory.com I have used it for commercial flights, but a quick test shows it has the small airports around me as well.

First, thanks to everyone for all the amazing feedback and advice. I couldn’t be happier that I found the mooneyspace brain trust! So, yes, I’ll only be flying during daylight hours. Plan is to do it in two days – it’s about 15 hours total flying, so that should work out pretty easily – and of course I have an extra two days if we need it. Also, planning to stay south at least until Colorado and will either fly north through Colorado and then west over southern Wyoming (along I80) or flying north through Utah. I’ve found a Mooney owner CFII (and Air Force C17 pilot) to do the flight with me, so I’m really looking forward to that experience. Weather permitting, the plan is to spend Friday working locally in the CHS area on transition basics (landings, airspeed/energy management, etc). We’ll start the journey at sunrise on Saturday. I’ve made a log of all the various airmanship challenges that everyone here has pointed out and will be sure to work on those with the instructor. With respect to mountain flying, the good news there is that’s what I’m used to – mountain waves, down/up drafts, etc are all in my regular flying routine now. Lastly, I’m adding the crossword to my GUMPS check, though that may require a few extra circuits in the hold. Thanks everyone! I’ll post pics and share details along the way.

Thanks, I've reached out to him!

Thanks for the thoughts so far. A few questions and answers: Answers/Responses: -IFR certification is a condition of purchase, so yes the aircraft will be IFR certified, with 430W. I also fly with a GDL39-3D w/Garmin Pilot. -I'll be doing my IFR Oral/Practical in Feb, but agreed that doing a long XC with a CFII would be a great capstone to my training - and that shouldn't indicate that I believe training stops with the checkride - it won't for me. -Agreed that it's a crappy time to fly across the country in a non-FIKI NA piston single, but such is life. I'm not gonna leave it sitting there until summer and I'm prepared to deal with meteorological reality that I may have to leave the plane somewhere half way across the country for a week. -I actually did my PPL checkride on my 17th birthday - back in the days of TCAs and ARSAs. I just stopped flying right after getting the ticket because college + life got in the way. I got back into it after moving to Boise earlier this year (June) and have been flying weekly since then. I started instrument training in August and will wrap that up in Feb. -Yes, I would much prefer to do the trip with another pilot, and the closer they are to being a Mooney experienced CFII, the better. Questions: -Can anyone recommend a good Mooney CFII in Georgia or the Carolinas? I've only been introduced to one and he's not available until late Feb. Seem to be few and far between... -A few of you have said that doing the flight alone isn't recommended. I'm curious what factors people think are the most troubling? Fatigue? Weather? Inexperience+potential for inflight emergencies? I'd like to be thoughtful about how I mitigate those risks differently on a 3-day XC trip as compared with my more typical flying, which is typically 1-2 hour flights in Idaho/Oregon? I have a pilot friend that will do the trip with me, so I wouldn't be alone in any case, but he's not Mooney experienced, so isn't ideal (we won't tell him that). Thanks again for all the feedback.

I’m new around here, and I’ve never paid any Mooney shop any money – though that’s changing next week when Joey Cole does a PPI for me. That said, while I’ve been shopping I have spoken with Don a few times based on the extensive reading I’ve done here – I found him to be very helpful, accessible and friendly – and would have done a PPI with him had I reached a deal on a Mooney near to him. I absolutely believe the point of forums like this is to share experiences, so I echo what jkhirsch said and I’m grateful to have another knowledgeable resource available. We all started knowing nothing and we learn from our experiences and those of others. I’m here to learn everything I can. However, something else I’ve learned about being part of any community – just like with ATC – is listen before you speak. This community is very open and welcoming as compared with many others I’ve participated in – us newbies to the forum (and actually, not just newbies!) should respect that by being thoughtful and thorough in our contributions or requests. Your feedback on your experience is valuable, but probably would be better understood if you emphasized the circumstances and deemphasized the emotion/frustration. Just my $0.03 and thanks for contributing.

Thanks, good questions. Total time is 160 hrs. Most of my time (80%) is in Warriors and Archers, more recently a Turbo Arrow that I've been doing instrument training in. I have no real PIC time in a Mooney - just some sample flights with others in their aircraft. Understood re: the PPI/Annual - no firm plans are made, but given airfare and my work schedule, I need to make tentative plans, even if they blow up and get pushed back. I agree, my preference would be to fly with a Mooney instructor some/all of the way, and a second choice would be flying with an experienced Mooney pilot.

Hi everyone – I’m newish here, having been learning plenty from this great site over the past few months; after a few months of searching and negotiating, I found an aircraft that I think is just right for me (’77 M20J) and it is currently with Joe Cole (MSC in Georgia) getting a PPI and Annual. If all goes well, I’ll be flying the plane back to Boise the weekend of January 30th. I have not yet completed my IR, so if I fly it without an IR pilot/instructor, it will be VFR – which could certainly make it an unpredictable four days (I’ve blocked Friday-Monday for the trip). Originally, the instrument rated current owner had volunteered to fly with me part or all of the way, but that fell through. I have blocked time with an instructor on the Friday for transition training, and he can get the trip started with me, but he has to be back in CHS on Saturday, and isn’t free the subsequent weekends either. I’m not all that worried about whether I make it in the one weekend or not – I fly (commercially) to and from the east coast every other week for work anyhow, so if I have to leave the plane somewhere along the way and pick it up the next weekend, I’m not overly concerned. That said, I’d obviously prefer to make the entire journey that first weekend. So, two topics for discussion: 1) Any suggestions on routing? Obviously the biggest impact will be the actual weather those days. Winds tend to show the fastest route being almost straight west – southern Tennessee -> northern Oklahoma and then turn north towards Laramie, WY and over southern WY to ID. Alternatively, I could stay south (warmer, maybe better weather?) all the way to southern Utah and turn north. I anticipate my biggest problem being the last few hundred miles, since prior to that I’ll have a lot of flexibility in routing. 2) Any IR (or not?) Mooney pilots along the route interested in making part of the journey? Thoughts on doing the flight alone or not? To be clear, I have my personal minimums, I don’t intend to fly at night and I have no problem stopping the flight as conditions dictate. Thanks for your thoughts and ideas, thanks for all the great information on this site and I look forward to contributing as I have some Mooney experiences of my own!